NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 4

[murraydwyer]

The group of private investigators are still workiing with the family. They have volunteered a lot of man hours, have interviewed many, many people and have checked out 'sightings' of Maura, including one in Florida.

They are taking every bit of information they have received seriously and are looking at many different aspects of this case. Any piece of information that they feel might be important is passed along to the investigative agency for the State of NH.

 

[redeskimo]

Sorry about my post it was just frust . Everytime I come in and see it's just someone ( mostly peabody ) saying how long Maura has been gone and no news , just asking everyone to pray for Maura and her familly . I think we all do this anyway , Yesterday it was on three different threads 8:30 8:31 and 8:32 . I was realy frustrated . We dont need a weekly reminder to pray . This is websleuths . No news can be good news , I'm sure we will hear somthing one day .

 

[murraydwyer]

I can well understand the frustration...while I don't presume to speak for Peabody, I suspect that rather than just posting 'bumping for Maura', Peabody asks for prayers once a month.

Again, there is a lot of discussion on Maura's site...and I don't mean to just draw people to Maura's site, but rather to bring some of what is being discussed over to Websleuths...Like many others, I signed up on Websleuths long before there was a website for Maura--December 2004...posters here have given a different perspective...sometimes I've agree, sometimes I haven't, but I've been reading and thinking about what is said here

Like you, I certainly hope we 'hear something someday'...hopefully sooner...

 

[mocity]

are people complaining that someone is posting to pray for someone that is missing? That is sad............

 

[LillyRush]

are people complaining that someone is posting to pray for someone that is missing? That is sad............

I agree...amazing! :croc:

While I've not caught up on all of the great thinking many of you have done. I have a question about her residency/campus residency situation and job. I guess I'm kind of not understanding the part of how, being that her job in a campus security office was so tied to where she lived - in her own dorm literally, was it normal for people to not know whether someone had a roommate or not? I'm not saying that I'm doubting the supervisor's story, I just don't get it. I've not personally ever held a job like that, but I've dated people who have and it's kind of hard to hide basic info like that among people you work/essentially live with....even if Maura was a private person.

So...back to the story about how she was so upset that she left work and then stated (upon having counseling suggested to her?) that she'd just basically vent to her roommate - a roommate of course that she did not actually have and she is saying this to someone who supervises her and the rest of campus security in that dorm. :waitasec:

 

[hydemi]

Maura's security job was in Melville Hall.

Her dorm room was in Kennedy Hall.

Her having a single was a bit unusual, as I recall from a post by Peabody some months ago. I don't know if Maura specifically requested a single.

The two dorms are close to each other in the SW section of the UMA campus.

Her supervisor KMayotte was an older student, not sure if she was a grad student or an older adult undergraduate.

KMayotte told me in an email that she was responsible for an area of several dorms that night in the SW section of campus as the overall "roamer" or supervisor of the various security desks in those dorms.

If you read KMayotte's two posts on Mauramurray<modsnip - no longer a working website> it appears that Maura just wanted to get back to her room by herself the night of 2/5/04 and used the white lie or excuse of having a roommate to politely brush off KMayotte.

I personally feel that the cause of Maura's being upset that night, still a mystery, could be a huge clue to her disappearance only if she is still alive--actually is a runaway.

Many of her friends and family feel that she was abducted and harmed at the scene in NH, and that whatever reasons she had for leaving UMA on that Monday would be immaterial to her being victimized.

 

[Tristan]

I agree that the upsetting phone call was related to her leaving the campus.

However, even if Maura was abducted, knowing why she left and the circumstances surrounding that phone call would help to give closure
to her family.

 

[CyberLaw]

Many of her friends and family feel that she was abducted and harmed at the scene in NH, and that whatever reasons she had for leaving UMA on that Monday would be immaterial to her being victimized.'

Again, I have to ask, what evidence does the friends and family have to support the "theory" that Maura was harmed and why do they believe "the worst" case theory and not "believe" that Maura is alive and well......and she just does not want to have anything to do with them by choice.

I really just don't understand the "logic" in this conclusion. There is no logic.....

Especially when there is ample evidence that Maura was running away from her family and friends, then they turn around and say "she is a victim".

Why don't they have a "memorial" service for her and start a "foundation" in her memory, if they really and fully believe that she is dead.

Again, I would never, not for one nanosecond believe that my voluntary adult daughter who ran away would be a victim, unless there was "conclusive" and compelling evidence to support same.

Just because my "ego" would be bruised and I may be hurt does not outweigh the fact that I "believe" my daughter is dead, rather then face the truth that she ran away from me. She choose to leave me and her "loved" one behind....

That is just so morbid............

On the other hand.....people are "found" after many years later, whom the family and friends "believed" were a victim of a crime. Some even even set up their disappearance to "appear" they were a victim of a crime.

They are doing quite well also in their new life and often do not want to be found.

That is based in reality and fact, not theory.........

The "attitude" of friends and family of Ray G, who went missing are far, far, different then the family of Maura.

Authorities say the investigation into the disappearance -- a probe that has involved Bellefonte police, State College police, state police, the state attorney general's office, the FBI, the Secret Service and the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department -- is no closer to determining what happened to Gricar than it was a year ago.

It could be a homicide, he could be a missing person still, or it could be a suicide," said Bellefonte Police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator in the case. "We have no evidence in any direction to substantiate any of those three theories successfully."
Gricar's friends and family are prepared for bad news, but haven't given up hope that he might be alive.

"Always, always. I can't make sense of it, either," said Gricar's girlfriend, Patty Fornicola. "I haven't given up hope. It helps me go on."

What a far different "attitide" of his family and friends, they have not and never have "given up hope" that he is found alive.

Maura's family "gave her up for dead" within days of her going missing, so much for hope..........now they are just looking for a body and a person to hold responsible for the "crime".

What a HUGE difference, one hopeful for a positive outcome, the other one to recover a body due to foul play.

Wow.............

 

[Peabody]

Cyberlaw,

I honor your rights and the rights of ALL posters to post your opinions/theories here at websleuths, but ALL of us should be VERY careful to not put words into the mouths of others........therefore, I am commenting on your last post:

Many of her friends and family feel that she was abducted and harmed at the scene in NH, and that whatever reasons she had for leaving UMA on that Monday would be immaterial to her being victimized.'

Again, I have to ask, what evidence does the friends and family have to support the "theory" that Maura was harmed and why do they believe "the worst" case theory and not "believe" that Maura is alive and well......and she just does not want to have anything to do with them by choice.

I really just don't understand the "logic" in this conclusion. There is no logic.....

Especially when there is ample evidence that Maura was running away from her family and friends, then they turn around and say "she is a victim".

You may not understand their logic anymore than they or others on this forum understand yours..........However, they have one distinct advantage over you and that is that they know Maura. Granted, there have been individuals, both teen and adult, that have runaway and their family could not believe it......but having read all of your posts, the only evidence that I recall you providing is that you ran away from your family and that combined with Maura's family not being aware of where she was headed is evidence that she too ranaway.......I do not agree that she is a runaway because her family and boyfriend did not/do not know of her plans. There are those who agree with me and there are those who do not. However none of us KNOW for a certainty. The Murrays and Rausches have made it very clear THEY DO NOT KNOW what prompted her to leave UMass - and that even after 2 years of investigating on their own and with the recent pi investigations, nothing has deveoped that informs them of the WHY she left Umass that fateful 2/09/04.

Regardless of what any of us posts, *****there is no direct evidence to support either theory**** and NO ONE should say they KNOW what has happened to Maura/what Maura chose to do.

See next comments for reasons they FEAR that someone has harmed Maura.

Why don't they have a "memorial" service for her and start a "foundation" in her memory, if they really and fully believe that she is dead.

Again, I would never, not for one nanosecond believe that my voluntary adult daughter who ran away would be a victim, unless there was "conclusive" and compelling evidence to support same.

Just because my "ego" would be bruised and I may be hurt does not outweigh the fact that I "believe" my daughter is dead, rather then face the truth that she ran away from me. She choose to leave me and her "loved" one behind....

That is just so morbid............

Did you watch Montel? It aired I believe in Nov 2005 - There is a link on Maura's site <modsnip - no longer a working website> if you would care to watch it.

Did you watch 20/20 ? It aired in March of 2006.

In interviews on BOTH shows, Fred Murray, Billy and Sharon Rausch express their fears that Maura has been harmed and their hopes that she is well. Fred Murray said in 20/20 something to the effect that "hope is what keeps him going".

Because of both of their love and knowledge of Maura combined with other facts in the case: ie Major Crimes has been involved in the case since July 04; Asst Attorney General Jeff Strelzin is head of the case and Strelzlin only heads homicice cases (do a Google search to confirm the cases that Strelzin handles), the Murrays and Rausches do FEAR that their beloved Maura is no longer living. However, if one believes them and not you, they do have hope and will not relinquish that hope UNTIL there is conclusive evidence that she is no longer living.

One of the reasons they have called Maura a victim is because of the ineffective work of the NH LE.

You raise an excellent point when you say "Why don't they have a "memorial" service for her and start a "foundation" in her memory". I know for a fact that they family has been approached about a memorial scholarship fund at her high school and at UMass as well as an annual "Fun Run" to be named after Maura. Because of their hope that Maura is living, they have declined these offers.

These facts certainly counter your statement that the Murray's actions are "morbid."

On the other hand.....people are "found" after many years later, whom the family and friends "believed" were a victim of a crime. Some even even set up their disappearance to "appear" they were a victim of a crime.

They are doing quite well also in their new life and often do not want to be found.

That is based in reality and fact, not theory.........

This is exactly the hope of the Murrays and the Rausches.......recently on the Project Jason site when Sharon Rausch was interviewd by Kelly Jolkowski, she addresses Maura personally. I recall your making comments on this interview.
I wonder why Mrs. Rausch would address Maura if she had NO HOPE that Maura was living???? Also, there is a newspaper article in the first weeks that Maura went missing wherein Fred Murray made an appeal to Maura - the same appeal was made on television for her to come home.

The "attitude" of friends and family of Ray G, who went missing are far, far, different then the family of Maura.

Authorities say the investigation into the disappearance -- a probe that has involved Bellefonte police, State College police, state police, the state attorney general's office, the FBI, the Secret Service and the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department -- is no closer to determining what happened to Gricar than it was a year ago.

It could be a homicide, he could be a missing person still, or it could be a suicide," said Bellefonte Police Officer Darrel Zaccagni, the lead investigator in the case. "We have no evidence in any direction to substantiate any of those three theories successfully."
Gricar's friends and family are prepared for bad news, but haven't given up hope that he might be alive.

"Always, always. I can't make sense of it, either," said Gricar's girlfriend, Patty Fornicola. "I haven't given up hope. It helps me go on."

What a far different "attitide" of his family and friends, they have not and never have "given up hope" that he is found alive.

As to what may have happed in the Gricar case, this is the SAME attitude that the Murrays and Rausches have.........the difference in attitudes is not with whether their loved one is no longer living or has chosen to start a new life - the difference is there has been some police bashing by the Murrays and Rausches because they have had to fight to get an investigation for Maura. Fortunately, because of either the difference in style of the LE in Pa, or because of Ray's occupation, his family has not had to fight for an investigation. His missing has been vigorously pursued from the beginning.

I refer you again to the recent episode of 20/20 wherein those who love Maura said that HOPE was what kept them going.

Maura's family "gave her up for dead" within days of her going missing, so much for hope..........now they are just looking for a body and a person to hold responsible for the "crime".

What a HUGE difference, one hopeful for a positive outcome, the other one to recover a body due to foul play.

Wow.............

Maura's family did not give "her up for dead within days of her going missing". Again, on the 20/20 episode Mrs Rausch mentioned she and her husband buying Maura diet Mt Dew and cherry twizzlers (which Maura used as straws to drink her soda) and keeping them for about a year before disposing of them because they were too painful of a reminder that Maura was missing.........granted they no longer have the items they were going to give to Maura when they *found* her, but it seems they sure didn't give up within a few days; but again, most telling is that Fred, Billy and Sharon all three said on 20/20 that they still have hope along with their fears.

You are so correct - "WOW" - these facts are so different from your post and is why I appeal to you to separate the facts from your feelings/opinions/theories.

Thanks!

 

[CyberLaw]

I think Doc posted a link that within days her family was "convinced" that she was dead. He did post an article. Plus please read the "red" text of my post, which I "quoted" from you..........

Does anyone really know the "inner most" thoughts of another.

Do they "think" they know Maura.

They don't have a "clue" why she left UM, nor what the phone call that reduced her to tears was about.

They had no clue to her mental state, her inner most thoughts, her feeling, her "secrets". She only "allowed" them to see what she wanted them to see.

They don't know where she was running off to, why or with whom.

How many times has anyone heard "it is so out of character" I had no idea he/she was like that. I "thought" I knew them...........

Do you think Laci, thought she knew Scott, and do you think that Laci's family thought they knew Scott also. Look what he did.

What about a "nice" church going lady who "shoots" her hubby in the back.....

What about Neil E.

I could go on and on, but the one thing that is very "evident" is that Maura kept "secrets" so I find it difficult for the family to claim they "know Maura".

Yeah, then why did she leave UMASS in the first place......that is if you know Maura soooooo well.

People only allow other to "glimpse" into their character, what they want them to know.

For example: Maura was involved with SADD in high school, but she was involved in not one, but two "accidents" that may have involved booze.

To tell a person true character, look at their actions, not what they say......

Their actions don't lie, people do...........

When a person decides to "ditch" their friends and family, it is usually a long time coming, and all that is need is "one straw" and that was the "discussion" with her Dad. That prompted her to finally go through with her thought to "run away".

If I had a dime, for every time I "heard" someone say: She had no reason to leave, she would not leave her friends and family, this is so out of character of her/him......they must to a "victim". Only to "discover" years later that indeed the person is not a victim, but a "voluntary" run away.

These people also "claim" they know their family member also.........and could never "imagine" that their "loved" one would ditch them to start a new life.......

Just because people are your family, you can still choose to run away from them............for your own reason, that only you are privvy to.

 

[Peabody]

I think Doc posted a link that within days her family was "convinced" that she was dead. He did post an article. Plus please read the "red" text of my post, which I "quoted" from you..........
.

Doc may have posted a link, BUT I know the family was not CONVINCED that she was "dead" "within days".

The following Link is to a story dated02/19/04 and Fred Murray is quoted:
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/97eabb751
<snip>

Murray met with reporters in Bethlehem Thursday night after he and family members scoured parts of New Hampshire from Haverhill to Conway and Bethlehem for his daughter, Maura.
"Maura, this is me ... like always, we will solve this," he said in a plea to his daughter through the media.

<snip>

Fred Murray said he doesn't understand what prompted his daughter to leave the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, where she is a nursing student, to drive to New Hampshire.
He said it's very unusual for her just to take off. He said he had seen her Sunday afternoon and didn't suspect anything was wrong.
"I don't know exactly what you think is the matter," Murray said, again pleading to his daughter. "It isn't anything that can't be easily solved."

I think Doc posted a link that within days her family was "convinced" that she was dead. He did post an article. Plus please read the "red" text of my post, which I "quoted" from you..........

.

Sleuthers please read posts 367 369 370 for the text to which Cyberlaw added red for emphasis in post 369:
s
Cyberlaw, you are mistaken. I never posted the text to which YOU added red for emphasis. This text is in post 367 by hydemi, and is copied below as he/she presented it: in black not red. It is true that NOW - two years - after her missing that MANY of her friends and family feel that she was abducted and harmed.

However, we were discussing Fred Murray, and I was truthfully pointing you to the sources of information wherein he, along with Maura's boyfriend and mother, said that hope that Maura is well is what keeps them going. Their remarks were as recent as March 2006.

The quote found in posts 367 369 370

Many of her friends and family feel that she was abducted and harmed at the scene in NH, and that whatever reasons she had for leaving UMA on that Monday would be immaterial to her being victimized

Does anyone really know the "inner most" thoughts of another.

Do they "think" they know Maura.

They don't have a "clue" why she left UM, nor what the phone call that reduced her to tears was about.

They had no clue to her mental state, her inner most thoughts, her feeling, her "secrets". She only "allowed" them to see what she wanted them to see.

They don't know where she was running off to, why or with whom.

How many times has anyone heard "it is so out of character" I had no idea he/she was like that. I "thought" I knew them...........

Do you think Laci, thought she knew Scott, and do you think that Laci's family thought they knew Scott also. Look what he did.

What about a "nice" church going lady who "shoots" her hubby in the back.....

What about Neil E.

I could go on and on, but the one thing that is very "evident" is that Maura kept "secrets" so I find it difficult for the family to claim they "know Maura".

Yeah, then why did she leave UMASS in the first place......that is if you know Maura soooooo well.

People only allow other to "glimpse" into their character, what they want them to know.

For example: Maura was involved with SADD in high school, but she was involved in not one, but two "accidents" that may have involved booze.

To tell a person true character, look at their actions, not what they say......

Their actions don't lie, people do...........

When a person decides to "ditch" their friends and family, it is usually a long time coming, and all that is need is "one straw" and that was the "discussion" with her Dad. That prompted her to finally go through with her thought to "run away".

If I had a dime, for every time I "heard" someone say: She had no reason to leave, she would not leave her friends and family, this is so out of character of her/him......they must to a "victim". Only to "discover" years later that indeed the person is not a victim, but a "voluntary" run away.

These people also "claim" they know their family member also.........and could never "imagine" that their "loved" one would ditch them to start a new life.......

Just because people are your family, you can still choose to run away from them............for your own reason, that only you are privvy to.

Regarding the questions you ask in the above quoted remarks, you are absolutely correct when you say that Maura's family and friend do not know the answers.

However, it is an important fact that you also do not know the answers.

Her family and friends do have a knowledge and intimacy of/with her that you do not.........or do you?

.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Okay, I have been gone a week and half (and hey, I have to recommend breaks away from most news and crime stuff, now and then it is vital). I was catching up on what I was behind on and notice that now it is being said that a white towel was stuffed in Maura's exhaust pipe (according to some posters on the MauraMurray<modsnip - no longer a working website> board). Is this for real? When did this information get released (and by whom) ? Has this been in any other media ?

 

[Peabody]

Okay, I have been gone a week and half (and hey, I have to recommend breaks away from most news and crime stuff, now and then it is vital). I was catching up on what I was behind on and notice that now it is being said that a white towel was stuffed in Maura's exhaust pipe (according to some posters on the MauraMurray.<modsnip - no longer a working website> board). Is this for real? When did this information get released (and by whom) ? Has this been in any other media ?

I have learned that this information is a fact.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a release by the media of the information about the "rag in the tailpipe".

It is a *fact* that LE found a rag in the tailpipe of Maura's car.
It was one of the reasons given to the family on the evening of Wed 2/11/04 that LE believed that Maura was suicidal.

It was the Murray's understanding that LE did not want the info released. Therefore, they never made mention of it except to their pi's .

And, as I have already stated, to my knowledge, it was never reported in the media, which confirms that LE never officially released the information.

The information recently came out on Maura's website <modsnip - no longer a working website>because a poster who is a resident of the Haverhill area made mention of it.

Because Maura's family knew the information to be true and because they were being told by Haverhill citizens that some believed this supported Scarinza's theory that Maura was suicidal, they, with approval of their pi's decided to post a confirmation of the information after it was presented on their site.

The information is common knowledge in the Haverhill area and has been for some time. Because the Murrays never released the information, one must wonder how/why this info was leaked to the local residents and by whom ????

However, the Murrays and their pi's have researched/investigated this and have reached the conclusion by professionals that a rag in the tailpipe would not be a means of suicide while an auto is on the open road - or in any open environment - but a rag in the tailpipe will cause a car to stall. There is a site on<modsnip - no longer a working website>that explains how an auto is effected with the tailpipe blocked.

Hope this helps you.

 

[docwho3]

(According to the post I read this fact was allegedly already known to Haverhill people because several were on scene the night of the accident & disapearance.) I have a real problem accepting this latest "fact". When all this time the state police have been saying that there exists no evidence at all that there was any foul play involved the family could have at any time released this info to the press to counter that claim and get the pressure on L.E. to treat this as a crime and more fully investigate and yet they did not?

Also in all this time since 2004 we are supposed to believe that no news media found this out? Having found out such a thing in their interviews we are supposed to believe that no news agency since 2004 was willing to break the big case wide open by pointing out that someone (possibly someone other than maura) had stuffed a rag in the tail pipe of the car?

When 20/20 did their piece this year and L.E. Lt. Scarinzina sat there saying "there is no evidence of foul play" and no one working for that show said a word about any possible other tailpipe evidence that might possibly refute that statement and no family member said a word either about the tailpipe evidence solely because L.E. had asked them not to say anything. . . . when the family has been so angry with L.E. that they have pretty much broken away and have even had to sue in court trying to get records released and we are supposed to still buy into this new "fact"? And CNN could have broken this case wide open and forced L.E. to take a more active interest in the case by reporting this little "fact" a long time ago but they also did not say a thing. . . . hmmm

Then there is the fact that this was "leaked" on the Mauramurray<modsnip - no longer a working website> site forum where the family has full control and could easily have just deleted the post & then could have privately explained to the poster that the info needed to not be released yet and yet the family made a concious decision to allow this "leaking" to occur.

Something just does not sound right to me about this latest little "fact". It does serve to keep the case being talked about at a time when interest seemed to be waning. I am sorry but I have real problems accepting this as fact unless or until it is released by 1.L.E. and/or 2. an actual mainstream news media outlet that claims to have confirmed that such a rag/towel was found by L.E. where it has been alleged then releases the info.

Until I get some sort of reliable confirmation I think I will put this "fact" in the box with all the rumors and urban legends.

 

[Peabody]

(According to the post I read this fact was allegedly already known to Haverhill people because several were on scene the night of the accident & disapearance.) I have a real problem accepting this latest "fact". When all this time the state police have been saying that there exists no evidence at all that there was any foul play involved the family could have at any time released this info to the press to counter that claim and get the pressure on L.E. to treat this as a crime and more fully investigate and yet they did not?

Also in all this time since 2004 we are supposed to believe that no news media found this out? Having found out such a thing in their interviews we are supposed to believe that no news agency since 2004 was willing to break the big case wide open by pointing out that someone (possibly someone other than maura) had stuffed a rag in the tail pipe of the car?

When 20/20 did their piece this year and L.E. Lt. Scarinzina sat there saying "there is no evidence of foul play" and no one working for that show said a word about any possible other tailpipe evidence that might possibly refute that statement and no family member said a word either about the tailpipe evidence solely because L.E. had asked them not to say anything. . . . when the family has been so angry with L.E. that they have pretty much broken away and have even had to sue in court trying to get records released and we are supposed to still buy into this new "fact"? And CNN could have broken this case wide open and forced L.E. to take a more active interest in the case by reporting this little "fact" a long time ago but they also did not say a thing. . . . hmmm

Then there is the fact that this was "leaked" on the Mauramurray<modsnip - no longer a working website> site forum where the family has full control and could easily have just deleted the post & then could have privately explained to the poster that the info needed to not be released yet and yet the family made a concious decision to allow this "leaking" to occur.

Something just does not sound right to me about this latest little "fact". It does serve to keep the case being talked about at a time when interest seemed to be waning. I am sorry but I have real problems accepting this as fact unless or until it is released by 1.L.E. and/or 2. an actual mainstream news media outlet that claims to have confirmed that such a rag/towel was found by L.E. where it has been alleged then releases the info.

Until I get some sort of reliable confirmation I think I will put this "fact" in the box with all the rumors and urban legends.

You make some very valid points.

In spite of these valid points, the information is factual.

From what I have learned, the person(s) who *leaked* the information were at the scene of the accident the night of Maura's missing and could not understand why (just as you cannot understand) the info was not being made public; they felt (like you) that this COULD/MIGHT be *evidence* of foul play and therefore they began to talk - not to the media, but to their neighbors, co-workers, peers, etc. - one of whom posted it on Maura's site.

Yes, Maura's family can control the site, but the info was released and they do not have a member sitting to observe every post the minute it is made. Because it was posted publicly, they decided to confirm it.

Hopefully, not only this bit of information, but others will soon come to light in order that we may know about the case of Maura Murray.

 

[jodierenee]

very hypothetical situation here:

someone knew she was leaving town, decided to stuff the rag in the tailpipe knowing that it would cause car trouble....followed her until the accident, and then she was met with foul play...

both sound pretty far fetched. I am with the group that thinks she was met with foul play.

If she was suicidal, I believe she would be found by now. I'm sure the area near her car has been searched over and over.

I can't imagine her running away...I know she was having some problems, but I don't think it was enough to make her want to never talk to her family, friends, and boyfriend again.

I just am not sure where the rag in the tailpipe fits in.

 

[Advocate4]

Hi all -- I am new to this forum but ever since Maura disappeared she has been in my thoughts and I've checked the Internet or random forums regularly every month or two to learn if there is any news of her. More recently I've had the time to start getting involved in the discussions, have spent the last couple of weeks reading through all the threads on the Murray family's forum as well as this one.

I'm not wedded to any particular theory. I've spent the last couple of days weighing this new information about the towel or rag stuffed in the tailpipe, and while it does seem to lend support to the theories that involve her being stalked or otherwise set up for a forced abduction/assault/etc. and may very well have been either the cause of her accident on the curve or the reason she didn't drive away after the accident, I'm not sure it particularly changes anything with respect to Maura's actual disappearance from the accident site.

Whether or not Maura thought she was being followed is an open question. It seems to me unlikely that she knew a towel/rag had been stuffed in her tailpipe, and if the car stalled out on the curve thus causing the accident or would not start up for her due to stall after the accident, she probably would have laid those things up to the fact the car already had problems and would not have thought about "sabotage" at all. Further, it seems to me that if she did know or suspect she was being followed, she would have gone to the nearest house once she got out of the car, personal safety concerns tend to trump the possibility of being charged with DUI (if she was worried about that).

So it seems to me that we are still back to how she left the scene of the accident. According to posts by "weeper" on the family's forum, witnesses to the accident scene did report that several vehicles went by between the time the accident occurred and the time that LE arrived at the scene, but the witnesses said that none stopped.

However -- and although I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere -- it seems likely that passing vehicles did slow down due to spotting the disabled Saturn in their headlights. My speculation is that Maura may have hitched herself a ride on a passing pickup truck by grabbing onto the tailgate and pulling herself up onto the bumper, possibly when the pickup slowed to make the right turn onto Bradley Hill Road.

Obviously if she wanted to leave the scene of the accident to avoid dealing with LE, a vehicle was the best and fastest method. Flagging down a ride would not necessarily result in her avoiding LE because no guarantee that drivers would not take her right to the nearest police station or hospital. But hitching a ride for herself on the back of a pickup truck would get her away from the accident site via vehicle and quite likely not noticed by the truck driver.

Why would a truck driver not notice? Well, it was very dark and it was snowing a bit. Focus would be on the road conditions. On roads that are lightly traveled, and in consideration of those road conditions, people are looking intently forward when they drive, no need to look in the rearview mirror. Under some conditions, a truck driver might feel the new weight of someone climbing aboard, but under these conditions if there was a bit of a "lurch" when Maura grabbed the tailgate and pulled herself up, it could be laid to tires passing over a bit of hard ice on the road or a frost heave. Further, if Maura simply pulled herself up by the tailgate, anchored her shoes well on the bumper, she could have lowered herself into a "sitting" position and even if the driver had looked in his/her rearview, it is very unlikely she would have been seen. She only had to ride along for a mile or two in order to get well away from the accident location.

I have done a bit of reading about what is involved in West Point Cadet Basic Training, i.e. "Beast", and the physical requirements are impressive. Good deal of climbing and the like, and it has been pointed out that Maura had very good upper body strength -- so I feel that grabbing on to the back end of a slowed pickup truck and pulling herself up to ride the bumper would have been well within her physical abilities.

Would like to hear any thoughts on this view.

 

[murraydwyer]

Then there is the fact that this was "leaked" on the Mauramurray<modsnip - no longer a working website> site forum where the family has full control and could easily have just deleted the post & then could have privately explained to the poster that the info needed to not be released yet and yet the family made a concious decision to allow this "leaking" to occur.

Over the past year, this has in fact been taken off the site more than once, and posters were contacted privately. We have also heard it from posters who did not post it on the website....and as Peabody explained the people who have the ability to delete a post cannot monitor it 24/7 and it becomes more difficult if there have been responses.

someone knew she was leaving town, decided to stuff the rag in the tailpipe knowing that it would cause car trouble....followed her until the accident, and then she was met with foul play...

Family members (including one who is a former police officer) have run tests and done research, based on what we can determine, the rag would not have stayed in the tailpipe for very long, so we do not feel that there is any way it was placed there in Amherst. We have no idea when it was placed there or by whom. We believe, again based on research, that it would have caused the vehicle to stall and quite possibly have left Maura with less ability to control the vehicle in terms of steering and brakes if it had been placed there prior to Maura hitting the snowbank.

 

[nnglas]

However -- and although I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere -- it seems likely that passing vehicles did slow down due to spotting the disabled Saturn in their headlights. My speculation is that Maura may have hitched herself a ride on a passing pickup truck by grabbing onto the tailgate and pulling herself up onto the bumper, possibly when the pickup slowed to make the right turn onto Bradley Hill Road.

Obviously if she wanted to leave the scene of the accident to avoid dealing with LE, a vehicle was the best and fastest method. Flagging down a ride would not necessarily result in her avoiding LE because no guarantee that drivers would not take her right to the nearest police station or hospital. But hitching a ride for herself on the back of a pickup truck would get her away from the accident site via vehicle and quite likely not noticed by the truck driver.

Why would a truck driver not notice? Well, it was very dark and it was snowing a bit. Focus would be on the road conditions. On roads that are lightly traveled, and in consideration of those road conditions, people are looking intently forward when they drive, no need to look in the rearview mirror. Under some conditions, a truck driver might feel the new weight of someone climbing aboard, but under these conditions if there was a bit of a "lurch" when Maura grabbed the tailgate and pulled herself up, it could be laid to tires passing over a bit of hard ice on the road or a frost heave. Further, if Maura simply pulled herself up by the tailgate, anchored her shoes well on the bumper, she could have lowered herself into a "sitting" position and even if the driver had looked in his/her rearview, it is very unlikely she would have been seen. She only had to ride along for a mile or two in order to get well away from the accident location.

I have done a bit of reading about what is involved in West Point Cadet Basic Training, i.e. "Beast", and the physical requirements are impressive. Good deal of climbing and the like, and it has been pointed out that Maura had very good upper body strength -- so I feel that grabbing on to the back end of a slowed pickup truck and pulling herself up to ride the bumper would have been well within her physical abilities.

Would like to hear any thoughts on this view.[/QUOTE]






Welcome fellow tarheel!!!! Very interesting.... Never thought about this possibility. I think it is just as possible as any other theory. Very interesting indeed. I am not sure how to take the rag in the tailpipe. Because I think that if someone wanted her to stall so they could kidnap her, I think that she would have been gone before SBD came upon the scene. But... I don't know.

 

[Advocate4]

Thanks for the welcome! Feel like I *know* all of you on here just from reading through the Maura threads, and am so impressed with the astute thinking, there has been a lot of hard work done here on this case.

You make a good point about how she likely would have been gone before SBD arrived if the object had been to place the rag to force a stall and allow kidnap. That may have been the plan and if so I would guess that whoever did it anticipated her car would make it further out on 112 before she stalled. If she had gone another 3 or 4 miles, she would have been a lot further out in the "boonies".

Just as an additional thought, it has occurred to me that the rag in the tailpipe might not have been for the purpose of actually causing her any harm. It could have been a prank by a teenager - seeing her out of state tags, maybe simply intending mischief against a "tourist". I ran Internet searches on phrases about blocking tailpipes, and saw quite a bit about this being a deliberate tactic of mechanics (including homestyle mechanics) to discern this and that about operation of the motor ... searched that way, I didn't see a lot about blocking a tailpipe being a risk, although we know it certainly would be if blocked solidly enough for just long enough.

Welcome fellow tarheel!!!! Very interesting.... Never thought about this possibility. I think it is just as possible as any other theory. Very interesting indeed. I am not sure how to take the rag in the tailpipe. Because I think that if someone wanted her to stall so they could kidnap her, I think that she would have been gone before SBD came upon the scene. But... I don't know.