NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 6

[gaia227]

Was the rag in the tailpipe verified, or was this a rumour?

I believe it is verified. I have seen it referenced in several different places and I think it was also noted in the police report.

 

[gaia227]

Gaia, you need to read the post referenced by lady gray. This explains my question.

That is my bad. I read her first post, 1904, which was about the Westmans but I somehow overlooked the one she put up right after that about the scanners.

I think it is okay to paste in what she wrote. If not, mods, I apologize and just tell me to delete it.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T0DQUJ4P593IE7SE6/p92

"I would like to recap some information that has previously been posted on the MMM Forum and partly on this site as well, with reference to the first “call-out” about an accident on route 112 at or about 7:00-7:10 PM on February 9, 2004.

A witness returning [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]home[/COLOR][/COLOR] from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a black “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater.

Please have a [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]map[/COLOR][/COLOR] of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]Bath[/COLOR][/COLOR] where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater.

As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]store[/COLOR][/COLOR], she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located.

When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (ass-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood. The witness then continued along route 112 East heading [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]home[/COLOR][/COLOR] and flashed her/his high-low beams to
oncoming traffic (universal signal to slow down ahead) due to the location of the accident on the sharp curve.

This witness’ [COLOR=#739912 !important][COLOR=#739912 !important]account[/COLOR][/COLOR] of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does all this mean then? It means an officer was responding to a “vehicle slid off the road” call, but rather than take the most direct route to the Weathered Barn the officer went back toward Route 10 where it intersect with Goose Lane up in the Woodsville section of Haverhill, before turning back toward the corner at the Westerman’s
Weathered Barn. Could there have been two separate women sliding off the road into snow banks that evening within thirty minutes of one another, I doubt it but it is possible none the less. "

 

[OldSteve]

I believe it is verified. I have seen it referenced in several different places and I think it was also noted in the police report.

Regarding the cloth in the tailpipe:
It came from the emergerncy kit in Maura's car - the kit was given to her by her father Fred.
Believe he said she used the cloth in the tailpile as a way to cut down on smoking exhaust from her car - it was only running on 3 cyclinders...

Of course, if it was used to really blocked up the tail pipe, it would be a way to cause her car to to stop running... and it's been suggested that someone did this to her car so that it would become disabled after she had recently gotten gas....

My own theories are - since she left her jewerly in the car, she might have done it to keep her car from being driven from where it was... (of course wouldn't stop it from being towed).

 

[McSpy]

They disagree with eachother regarding the red glowing light. Mr. Westman said he thought it looked like a man smoking a cigarette. Mrs. Westman said she thought it looked like a red light from a cell phone. According to the article they disagree with eachother pretty passionately on this.

You have it backwards. it was Mrs. Westman that thought the figure was a man smoking a cigarette. Mr. Westman thought the figure was a woman on a cell phone.

The thing that struck me about them saying they saw someone standing towards the back of the car is the fact that a rag was found stuffed in the tail-pipe (which is just one more totally bizarre detail - WHY?) - was that what this person, Maura or someone else, was doing? I have often wondered if
LE could get anything off of that rag. Where did it come from? What kind of
rag was it? Like a washcloth, a towel or just a beat up old rag? Were there any fingerprints on it? How dirty was it? Did it look like it had been in the tail pipe for a long time or was it relatively clean?

The rag came from an emergency kit, which was put together by Maura's
father. There are a lot of theories on that rag. Some people think it was put there for sinister reasons. Others believe that Maura put it in the tailpipe to block the smoke from getting attention. It could have been put there as a flag, because her car was hanging out into the road. Know one knows for sure, but I don't think it means anything, which would lead to finding Maura.

 

[McSpy]

:crazy:

of what she/he saw that evening supports the postings about an “earlier accident” where “female left in private vehicle”, which was heard by others over the scanners up in that area.

What does this mean? A female left in a private vehicle? Do you mean Maura left in someone else's vehicle?

 

[gaia227]

:crazy:

What does this mean? A female left in a private vehicle? Do you mean Maura left in someone else's vehicle?

Those are not my words - that is from the post at Topix someone else here had referred to regarding the scanner activity that night and I brought it over so everyone could see it. Anything in that post below the link in italics is copied from the topix post.

 

[scaredtopost]

I, like many others posting on this board have read any and all information available on the Maura Murray case. I have read about the rag in the tail pipe several times. However, until the previous post, I never though about the chance of obtaining DNA from the rag. I tend to think it was never processed for evidence. If it was, I have never heard of any results.

I am also bothered by statement that there is a 75% chance of prosecution. I tend to beleive they are withholding an abundance of information. Why not, after all these years, release some new information. It could easily be the one missing piece that could finally solve this puzzle. I often think of Maura's dad and siblings and hope they are one day given the peace of mind of finding out what happened to MM.

 

[jodierenee]

Is anyone reading the posts by poster Bill 05478? This is all speculation, but he claims to know the "suspect" in the disappearance of Maura, but won't name names. Thought maybe someone with closer ties could do some sleuthing and see if we could figure out who they are talking about.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T0DQUJ4P593IE7SE6/p98
Post #2039

Here's what I've gotten so far:

He's a male, Woodsville resident, whose father is a prominent business owner in the area...they are well connected, his step mother is current Grafton county attorney and was also the attorney at the time of Maura's disappearance. His family "basically owns Woodville" and people think he's "psycho". His family is not cooperating with LE. Possible initials "RS" (via post #2057) He's got an ex-wife with one son who lives with the ex-wife. Father owns concerete company (hmmmm....) and strangely the company poured a brand new concrete floor shortly after Maura's disappearance. Police were also supposedy denied access into this area to search.

edit: he ends up naming the name, but I don't want to post the name with no basis of the guy being a POI. The name is listed on the Topix board under post #2123. He has a facebook, I've already been sleuthing it. Many pictures on there free to be seen.

 

[ThePhantom]

Good point, ScaredtoPost. We've all heard the old cliche about the wheels of justice turning slowly but -- wow, it's been a long time...

 

[Shin Masamura]

Is anyone reading the posts by poster Bill 05478? This is all speculation, but he claims to know the "suspect" in the disappearance of Maura, but won't name names. Thought maybe someone with closer ties could do some sleuthing and see if we could figure out who they are talking about.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T0DQUJ4P593IE7SE6/p98
Post #2039

Here's what I've gotten so far:

He's a male, Woodsville resident, whose father is a prominent business owner in the area...they are well connected, his step mother is current Grafton county attorney and was also the attorney at the time of Maura's disappearance. His family "basically owns Woodville" and people think he's "psycho". His family is not cooperating with LE. Possible initials "RS" (via post #2057) He's got an ex-wife with one son who lives with the ex-wife. Father owns concerete company (hmmmm....) and strangely the company poured a brand new concrete floor shortly after Maura's disappearance. Police were also supposedy denied access into this area to search.

edit: he ends up naming the name, but I don't want to post the name with no basis of the guy being a POI. The name is listed on the Topix board under post #2123. He has a facebook, I've already been sleuthing it. Many pictures on there free to be seen.

Nice post! The poster seems very passionate and in the know of the who's who's of the situation. However he could be a "local" that isin the business for the specualtion. I wonder how this inforamtion can get back to Fred, Maura's dad...

Also,.. I was thinking after seeing her "Disappeared" appearance, What are the odds that after she crashes and places a road side flag in her tailpipe that she comes across a killer?? Then again that can be said for anyone that runs into one.. sigh

 

[McSpy]

I, like many others posting on this board have read any and all information available on the Maura Murray case. I have read about the rag in the tail pipe several times. However, until the previous post, I never though about the chance of obtaining DNA from the rag. I tend to think it was never processed for evidence. If it was, I have never heard of any results.

I am also bothered by statement that there is a 75% chance of prosecution. I tend to beleive they are withholding an abundance of information. Why not, after all these years, release some new information. It could easily be the one missing piece that could finally solve this puzzle. I often think of Maura's dad and siblings and hope they are one day given the peace of mind of finding out what happened to MM.

I see what you mean about letting some info out to the public, but the evidence may be on a specific person. They may have a potential suspect already, but not enough evidence to arrest and convict.

 

[McSpy]

Is anyone reading the posts by poster Bill 05478? This is all speculation, but he claims to know the "suspect" in the disappearance of Maura, but won't name names. Thought maybe someone with closer ties could do some sleuthing and see if we could figure out who they are talking about.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T0DQUJ4P593IE7SE6/p98
Post #2039

Here's what I've gotten so far:

He's a male, Woodsville resident, whose father is a prominent business owner in the area...they are well connected, his step mother is current Grafton county
attorney and was also the attorney at the time of Maura's disappearance. His
family "basically owns Woodville" and people think he's "psycho". His family is not cooperating with LE. Possible initials "RS" (via post #2057) He's got an ex-wife with one son who lives with the ex-wife. Father owns concerete company (hmmmm....) and strangely the company poured a brand new concrete floor shortly after Maura's disappearance. Police were also supposedy denied access into this area to search.

edit: he ends up naming the name, but I don't want to post the name with no basis of the guy being a POI. The name is listed on the Topix board under post #2123. He has a facebook, I've already been sleuthing it. Many pictures on there free to be seen.

I read the poster's comments, but he seems confrontational to me. If he was confident in his info, why call everyone a moron, when the other posters voice doubts or questions on his info? LE may be looking into this RS character, but don't have enough evidence to pull him in. I doubt they are scared or are pushing this sort of info under the rug, because the "suspect" is from a prominent family. Geez, they put Governors and Mayors in prison where I come from.

 

[txsvicki]

Does anyone think that maybe Maura just left on her own and doesn't want to, or is now hesitant to contact anyone? She did leave school suddenly on a getaway, was upset, and the boyfriend did get a call from someone whimpering the next morning. She didn't confide in anyone how she was feeling or that she needed to get away either. Maybe she was thinking that nursing wasn't for her, wanted to quit school, feeling pressured from everyone, and possibly had a developing drinking problem to deal with. After wrecking her dad's car the next wreck plus whatever other problems she had going on could have been the final straw for her. IMO, there's more evidence that she might be off on her own living a new life than that she was harmed by some random stranger.

 

[McSpy]

Does anyone think that maybe Maura just left on her own and doesn't want to, or is now hesitant to contact anyone? She did leave school suddenly on a getaway, was upset, and the boyfriend did get a call from someone whimpering the next morning. She didn't confide in anyone how she was feeling or that she needed to get away either. Maybe she was thinking that nursing wasn't for her, wanted to quit school, feeling pressured from everyone, and possibly had a developing drinking problem to deal with. After wrecking her dad's car the next wreck plus whatever other problems she had going on could have been the final straw for her. IMO, there's more evidence that she might be off on her own living a new life than that she was harmed by some random stranger.

I respectfully disagree. She barely had enough money to stay in a hotel, never mind start a new life. I think she overreacted to her first accident in Amherst and may have been developing an alcohol dependency, but I don't think she was planning to take off forever. In a way, she was acting immaturely when she took off to NH. She was only 21 years old, which makes me think she was just acting impulsively and emotionally.

 

[OldSteve]

Is it true that the school bus driver, who moved to Florida, has passed away?

 

[scaredtopost]

Is it true that the school bus driver, who moved to Florida, has passed away?

Yes, he died naturally and peacefully, not long after retiring to Florida. I know most people are quick to accuse him of some wrongdoing, but I just don’t have that gut feeling. (I'm sure many here will disagree, though.) I think he was honestly trying to help. LE claim he was investigated extensively and later cleared of any wrong doing.

 

[McSpy]

Yes, he died naturally and peacefully, not long after retiring to Florida. I know most people are quick to accuse him of some wrongdoing, but I just don’t have that gut feeling. (I'm sure many here will disagree, though.) I think he was honestly trying to help. LE claim he was investigated extensively and later cleared of any wrong doing.

I agree. He didn't have any time to do anything. In my mind, the timeline clears him for sure.

 

[OldSteve]

Yes, he died naturally and peacefully, not long after retiring to Florida. I know most people are quick to accuse him of some wrongdoing, but I just don’t have that gut feeling. (I'm sure many here will disagree, though.) I think he was honestly trying to help. LE claim he was investigated extensively and later cleared of any wrong doing.

Thanks for clearing this up!
Another question - I've read that PI team believed the place where Maura's car was found is now where the accident happened. If so, does anyone know how far away it really happened?

I've read that some believe her car (judging by damage to front hood) was the result of it sliding under a truck or (and never heard this mentioned - a bus)?

 

[scaredtopost]

Yes, he died naturally and peacefully, not long after retiring to Florida. I know most people are quick to accuse him of some wrongdoing, but I just don’t have that gut feeling. (I'm sure many here will disagree, though.) I think he was honestly trying to help. LE claim he was investigated extensively and later cleared of any wrong doing.

It is too late to edit this post. Due to the urging of another, I would like to say that "I THOUGHT I READ OR SAW ON THE DISAPPEARED EPISODE THAT Butch Atwood was investigated extensively and later cleared of any wrong doing." I tried to get the transcripts from the show, but couldn't find them readily available. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you kindly.

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks for clearing this up!
Another question - I've read that PI team believed the place where Maura's car was found is now where the accident happened. If so, does anyone know how far away it really happened?

I've read that some believe her car (judging by damage to front hood) was the result of it sliding under a truck or (and never heard this mentioned - a bus)?

Oops - meant to say "where Maura's car was found is not (BBM) where the accident happened. "

Also, my thought about the accident being a "slide under" a truck or bus, is not to imply the SBD's bus, but any school bus since they make stops along roads that can catch a driver by surprise.