NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[OldSteve]

snipped:

If Renner's information about the credit card number theft is correct, I think the information may indicate a good answer to the question of why Maura was packed up, why she went north instead of going to class, and why she had certain items in her car. Maura may have decided to leave school, either because she was embarrassed or because nursing was a door that might be closed to her. Either way, she was done with that school.

Makes sense, but one thing I can't figure is why she brought her books with her on her trip as if to study and continue on with her studies. (Long shot, she was done with school and took her books to get some money selling them at some place she knew along the way or at the place she was heading for.)

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Or she might have decided to quit but chose to hedge her bets, in case she couldn't find a job. She could keep up with her studies until she was sure she was leaving. Or it could be that she just didn't want to leave the books in a room that was otherwise packed up. Some campus bookstores don't buy back books until the end of the term, so she might have figured to sell the books not in Mass but in the mountainsor maybe by email or phone. I know when I move, my car holds a lot of loose ends that I don't want to pack up.Whether she planned to use the books or sell them, she wouldn't want textbooks in the bottom of some box she might put in storage for a while.

 

[Katrinka]

My opinions only, no facts here:
Re the credit card problem, the point is- do we believe that Maura was broke and starving at college when she had both a supportive father and boyfriend? Unlikely. This sounds like when a super-rich Hollywood actress is caught shoplifting. It is a cry for attention.] And yes, eating disorders are also typically a cry for attention. I do not believe Maura had an eating disorder though.

I believe that various problems led Maura to the place where she slid off the road and disappeared. But all that happened after that may well be unrelated to these earlier problems.

(My bold)
I respectfully disagree about compulsions being "cries for attention." I think that excuse gets attributed to many disorders and it's rarely the case. If Maura was bulimic, and it looks likely that she was, the binging and purging would provide a sense of relief. Dysfunctional, but relief none the less. It's that sense of relief she wanted, not attention. In fact, Maura was reportedly an extremely private and secretive person.

It also seems apparent that she had a drinking problem. Even her boyfriend's mother said that Maura would routinely drink her morning coffee with Bailey's Irish Cream.

It's my opinion that Maura's life was spinning out of control, with legal problems and eating and alcohol issues. She needed to get away to think things through. When she got into an accident while driving impaired, she impulsively took off. I believe she died from hypothermia.

 

[Jane Birch]

Here's what I fail utterly to understand.

Let's ignore for a moment the fact that NOTHING in Renner's post is given as proof except his word--all we have is a random receipt with a whited-out signature that could be anybody's in anybody's handwriting, and a dreadfully upsetting picture of Maura against a cinder-block wall (which frankly I've never seen used for any mug shot ever; if she was charged, wouldn't they arrest her, fingerprint her, bring her to the station? Who the hell ever heard of them taking your picture against a random hallway wall in your dorm?) and Renner's say-so that all this is fact--

ok, let's ignore that for the moment. Let's assume he's telling the truth. Give him the benefit of the doubt here.

In which case, the police obviously already know this information. They were the ones who came up with it.

So what does putting it out in the open do for US in terms of finding Maura? Why do WE need to know that?

That's what I don't understand.

 

[McSpy]

snipped:


Makes sense, but one thing I can't figure is why she brought her books with her on her trip as if to study and continue on with her studies. (Long shot, she was done with school and took her books to get some money selling them at some place she knew along the way or at the place she was heading for.)

Maybe she was on the fence about leaving school and wanted to take the week to sort things out and then make a decision from there. The books were there, just in case she wanted them. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Here's what I fail utterly to understand.

Let's ignore for a moment the fact that NOTHING in Renner's post is given as proof except his word--all we have is a random receipt with a whited-out signature that could be anybody's in anybody's handwriting, and a dreadfully upsetting picture of Maura against a cinder-block wall (which frankly I've never seen used for any mug shot ever; if she was charged, wouldn't they arrest her, fingerprint her, bring her to the station? Who the hell ever heard of them taking your picture against a random hallway wall in your dorm?) and Renner's say-so that all this is fact--

ok, let's ignore that for the moment. Let's assume he's telling the truth. Give him the benefit of the doubt here.

In which case, the police obviously already know this information. They were the ones who came up with it.

So what does putting it out in the open do for US in terms of finding Maura? Why do WE need to know that?

That's what I don't understand.

For me, it says that she wasn't running off with a lover. It also suggests she may have thought she was getting kicked out of school and it explains alot of what occurred before she disappeared and her state of mind. Yes, we still don't know what happened to her after the NH accident, but I feel I have a better grasp of her situation. Some of the conspiracy theories and secret lover scenarios can be put to rest in my opinion. I'm still back to her accepting a ride, succumbing to the elements, or getting hit by a vehicle as possibilities for her disappearance. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Who knows really? Except Maura. Maybe her roommate? I am not going to knock the eating disorder thing off just because of prior experience but a lot of the time. If I were to drink, I would eat a bunch because I knew I would drink a bunch later and it would be coming right back up.

I just hope we all can figure something out. Whether she was an alcoholic, a bulimic or just depressed she needs justice.

She didn't have a roommate. One of the reasons I think she had an eating disorder is because I had read on a couple of boards that she did suffer with bulimia. One person, who seemed genuine, said she was a student at the same school and knew of Maura, because Maura was the security monitor for a dorm. Her friends lived next door to Maura's room and told her about the bulimia and the stolen credit card numbers. I tucked this information away, because it wasn't confirmed. I had no way to trust it was true. When Renner's credit card info came out recently, it came back to mind. Maybe it isn't true, but it does explain why she used someone elses credit to buy food. JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Jane, that is why i began my post with "if" Renner's information is correct. My guess is that the answer to your questions about the justice system might involve the nature of the "charges." If charges were to be dismissed in a few weeks, it seems more like what is called in some states a summary offense, more like a traffic ticket than an arrest. For someone in the situation described in the blog, the case might have been heard by a local magistrate. If the person made restitution and did not repeat the offense, charges would be dropped--the kind of deal young people with no record would routinely get for a first offense.

I am sure this blog in many ways causes pain and sadness for Maura's friends and families. In this case, however, as I said above, this information (true or not) suggested to me that Maura's packed dorm room, the sorts of things she took in the car, and her willingness to take off from school might be indicators of a decision to take some time off, get a job, and figure things out for herself. It's very hard for young people to balance rigorous academic programs and a couple of jobs with the hard work of growing up. Over 25 years of teaching college students has taught me that many of them go through very tough times trying to figure out who they are and what they want. I haven't read anything about Maura that would suggest she was anything but a regular college kid, struggling with the usual things college kids struggle with--picking the right major, figuring out the right college if the first one wasn't the right fit, learning how to handle setbacks like car accidents or romantic difficulties, finding that mistakes have consequences but that it's possible to learn from them and move on. If we assume Maura was a serious student, it makes sense that she intended to leave school not to commit suicide or "disappear" or go "get her head together," but rather to look for a job in a place she loved so that she might work some things out for herself without burning through tuition and school loans.

ETA: If Maura hadn't disappeared on her trip, it's likely that the events that have preoccupied those who are interested in her case (the upsetting phone call, the first car accident, her relationship with her boyfriend/ fiance, packing her room, etc.) would either be forgotten or just long behind her.

 

[flightlevel]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.

[Police also noted that Murray had enough food and other items in her car to suggest she might be taking a short getaway vacation.

/QUOTE]

 

[Mr. Noatak]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.

[Police also noted that Murray had enough food and other items in her car to suggest she might be taking a short getaway vacation.

/QUOTE]

My opinions only, no facts here:

No person has a right to tell others how to think. So with due respect- an anorexic-bulemic person typically does not imbibe alcohol (or sugary sodas) in great quantities, because it is very rapidly metabolized and cannot be as effectively regurgitated as can solid food. Also, Maura did not have the gaunt appearance of an obsessed Hollywood actress trying for size 0. If anything, she looked fairly buff.

I cannot completely discount the version provided by one poster, that MM ran away and died from hypothermia. This requires a "hide in plain sight" scenario for the randomly unconcealed remains. There are historical examples where this is the case, but I try not to think about them, because it should not be that difficult to discover remains in regions that are not untrammeled wilderness.

The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road.

Let me take another approach: for the sake of argument- pretend that the neighbors had heard two or three gunshots. If this had happened we would care less about MM's previous history.

Well, MM walked 100 yards from the accident scene and disappeared into dog-tracking oblivion. No gunshots, but this certainly renders her previous history to lesser relevance.

 

[Unscripted]

I have to agree "Mr. Noatak", when all else fails we have to go back to the facts. The tracking dog (a bloodhound) followed MM's scent 100 yards down the road on Wednesday, February 11, 2004. The next day a Belgian Malinois was unable to track any scent of MM in the bush near the crash location at WB corner or leading away from that site. Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.

So that would lead one to conclude that MM got into a vehicle either because she was being picked up pursuant to a pre-arranged plan, she accepted a ride from an unknown passerby or she was unwillingly abducted from the accident site. JMO.

 

[flightlevel]

The fact that she disappeared so quickly and her scent ends close by seems to suggest that whatever happened was quick.

 

[McSpy]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.

Police also noted that Murray had enough food and other items in her car to suggest she might be taking a short getaway vacation.

BBM
My feelings exactly. I think she knew she needed to sort things out. She was not in the right frame of mind to carry on with school responsibilities. Also, when she used the excuse about "a death in the family" for being absent from classes or clinicals, she was saying that to be able to go back to school without paying any consequences for being absent. I think she had to get away to chill out. JMO

 

[McSpy]

I have to agree "Mr. Noatak", when all else fails we have to go back to the facts. The tracking dog (a bloodhound) followed MM's scent 100 yards down the road on Wednesday, February 11, 2004. The next day a Belgian Malinois was unable to track any scent of MM in the bush near the crash location at WB corner or leading away from that site. Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.

So that would lead one to conclude that MM got into a vehicle either because she was being picked up pursuant to a pre-arranged plan, she accepted a ride from an unknown passerby or she was unwillingly abducted from the accident site. JMO.

I vote for her taking a ride from an unknown passerby. I just don't believe she was meeting anyone. There is no phone or email correspondence to support Maura was meeting anyone. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.




My opinions only, no facts here:

No person has a right to tell others how to think. So with due respect- an anorexic-bulemic person typically does not imbibe alcohol (or sugary sodas) in great quantities, because it is very rapidly metabolized and cannot be as effectively regurgitated as can solid food. Also, Maura did not have the gaunt appearance of an obsessed Hollywood actress trying for size 0. If anything, she looked fairly buff.

I cannot completely discount the version provided by one poster, that MM ran away and died from hypothermia. This requires a "hide in plain sight" scenario for the randomly unconcealed remains. There are historical examples where this is the case, but I try not to think about them, because it should not be that difficult to discover remains in regions that are not untrammeled wilderness.

The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road.

Let me take another approach: for the sake of argument- pretend that the neighbors had heard two or three gunshots. If this had happened we would care less about MM's previous history.

Well, MM walked 100 yards from the accident scene and disappeared into dog-tracking oblivion. No gunshots, but this certainly renders her previous history to lesser relevance.

My bold

I disagree. Someone, who suffers from Bulimia, does not look like someone who suffers from anorexia. Females suffering with Bulimia often look buff. They binge and purge OR binge and fast/diet or practice extreme exercise, so they gain (binge) and lose weight (purge, fast, or use extreme amounts of exercise) BUT they generally never get as skinny and boney as females suffering with Anorexia. Anorexia sufferers tend to eat like tiny birds. They can become skeletal and very weak.

 

[McSpy]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.




My opinions only, no facts here:

No person has a right to tell others how to think. So with due respect- an anorexic-bulemic person typically does not imbibe alcohol (or sugary sodas) in great quantities, because it is very rapidly metabolized and cannot be as effectively regurgitated as can solid food. Also, Maura did not have the gaunt appearance of an obsessed Hollywood actress trying for size 0. If anything, she looked fairly buff.

I cannot completely discount the version provided by one poster, that MM ran away and died from hypothermia. This requires a "hide in plain sight" scenario for the randomly unconcealed remains. There are historical examples where this is the case, but I try not to think about them, because it should not be that difficult to discover remains in regions that are not untrammeled wilderness.

The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road.

Let me take another approach: for the sake of argument- pretend that the neighbors had heard two or three gunshots. If this had happened we would care less about MM's previous history.

Well, MM walked 100 yards from the accident scene and disappeared into dog-tracking oblivion. No gunshots, but this certainly renders her previous history to lesser relevance.

I agree, this is a possible answer, because it is possible. It is a National forest, where she possibly set out running. There are far better places to hunt or hike than the side of Rt. 112 or Rt. 116, so it is possible no one has discovered her remains or personal effects yet. There has been 8 winters, falls and 7 summers, since her disappearance. She could still be out there.

If anyone wants to give this a try . . Try using google map's street view and follow along along Rt. 112 from the accident site to North Woodstock. It demonstrates how a missing person can be on the side of the road and no one would know about it. There are very few places to pull off the side of the road. How would anyone find Maura if she was there? When and how would they discover her, if she was there? A road crew? It is like a needle in a haystack.

 

[McSpy]

Jane, that is why i began my post with "if" Renner's information is correct. My guess is that the answer to your questions about the justice system might involve the nature of the "charges." If charges were to be dismissed in a few weeks, it seems more like what is called in some states a summary offense, more like a traffic ticket than an arrest. For someone in the situation described in the blog, the case might have been heard by a local magistrate. If the person made restitution and did not repeat the offense, charges would be dropped--the kind of deal young people with no record would routinely get for a first offense.

I am sure this blog in many ways causes pain and sadness for Maura's friends and families. In this case, however, as I said above, this information (true or not) suggested to me that Maura's packed dorm room, the sorts of things she took in the car, and her willingness to take off from school might be indicators of a decision to take some time off, get a job, and figure things out for herself. It's very hard for young people to balance rigorous academic programs and a couple of jobs with the hard work of growing up. Over 25 years of teaching college students has taught me that many of them go through very tough times trying to figure out who they are and what they want. I haven't read anything about Maura that would suggest she was anything but a regular college kid, struggling with the usual things college kids struggle with--picking the right major, figuring out the right college if the first one wasn't the right fit, learning how to handle setbacks like car accidents or romantic difficulties, finding that mistakes have consequences but that it's possible to learn from them and move on. If we assume Maura was a serious student, it makes sense that she intended to leave school not to commit suicide or "disappear" or go "get her head together," but rather to look for a job in a place she loved so that she might work some things out for herself without burning through tuition and school loans.

ETA: If Maura hadn't disappeared on her trip, it's likely that the events that have preoccupied those who are interested in her case (the upsetting phone call, the first car accident, her relationship with her boyfriend/ fiance, packing her room, etc.) would either be forgotten or just long behind her.

Although I disagree about Maura possibly going up to NH to get a job, I have to say you said it well about the trials and tribulations of young adults of Maura's age. Maura was in the "trying twenties" stage in her life. She was going through a rough patch. Believe me, I can relate to that!

 

[McSpy]

Well, after reading the CNN article from 2008 I really doubt a suicide scenario. Does someone who is suicidal pack enough food for a vacation? It seems as though wherever she was going she intended to be there a while. Alcohol alone I could understand a possible suicide . By packing food it sounds like she was simply planning to get away for a while but somehow fate cut her trip short.




My opinions only, no facts here:

No person has a right to tell others how to think. So with due respect- an anorexic-bulemic person typically does not imbibe alcohol (or sugary sodas) in great quantities, because it is very rapidly metabolized and cannot be as effectively regurgitated as can solid food. Also, Maura did not have the gaunt appearance of an obsessed Hollywood actress trying for size 0. If anything, she looked fairly buff.

I cannot completely discount the version provided by one poster, that MM ran away and died from hypothermia. This requires a "hide in plain sight" scenario for the randomly unconcealed remains. There are historical examples where this is the case, but I try not to think about them, because it should not be that difficult to discover remains in regions that are not untrammeled wilderness.

The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road.

Let me take another approach: for the sake of argument- pretend that the neighbors had heard two or three gunshots. If this had happened we would care less about MM's previous history.

Well, MM walked 100 yards from the accident scene and disappeared into dog-tracking oblivion. No gunshots, but this certainly renders her previous history to lesser relevance.

My bold

You make a lot of sense here. I agree, if Maura had an eating disorder or whatever, it doesn't explain what happened to her after her NH accident. The only thing that it does tell me is that it explains all the mysterious actions she made before her disappearance.

 

[McSpy]

I have to agree "Mr. Noatak", when all else fails we have to go back to the facts. The tracking dog (a bloodhound) followed MM's scent 100 yards down the road on Wednesday, February 11, 2004. The next day a Belgian Malinois was unable to track any scent of MM in the bush near the crash location at WB corner or leading away from that site. Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.

So that would lead one to conclude that MM got into a vehicle either because she was being picked up pursuant to a pre-arranged plan, she accepted a ride from an unknown passerby or she was unwillingly abducted from the accident site. JMO.

If she did accept a lift from a passerby, we have no idea if the driver stopped in the east bound lane or the west bound lane. She could have got in a car going west.

 

[McSpy]

I was reluctant to bring up my theory that Maura may have a eating disorder, because of the possibility her family reads these posts. I actually feel guilty about it. You see, I came from a family of 7. I can relate to Maura. I understand that people can have issues. No one is perfect. Most of it is caused by anxiety, depression, anger, misunderstandings, etc. Who knows? Things happen. Everyone copes differently. This is where I am coming from. I mean no harm when I bring this stuff up, because I've been there and done that. I'm not interested in judging anyone. *I really hope Maura is alive and well. I would love to hear that she called home. I can't imagine the pain her family has gone through, along with tolerating total strangers' theories of her mysterious disappearance.