NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[OldSteve]

Thanks for your analysis Scoops and pointing out what I'm snipping from your post and BBM:

"Although, you can't see it. Right past the mailbox is a corner lot that belonged to the contractor and included a house he was building as well as a trailer he was living in."

Got to wonder about that house being built - how much was done? Was there enough done to make it a place one would seek shelter in overnight? Was it searched that night? Most curious about what you think about it.

 

[scoops]

Thanks for your analysis Scoops and pointing out what I'm snipping from your post and BBM:

"Although, you can't see it. Right past the mailbox is a corner lot that belonged to the contractor and included a house he was building as well as a trailer he was living in."

Got to wonder about that house being built - how much was done? Was there enough done to make it a place one would seek shelter in overnight? Was it searched that night? Most curious about what you think about it.

Yeah, I honestly have no idea how far along the house was at that time.

The house is tucked back quite a bit so I assume the trailer was much closer to the road. I don't know if that house would be an inviting place to hide-out or not. I think someone (responding officer likely) did go door-to-door that first night and briefly talked to the neighbors in the area. The responding officer was last to leave the wreck site, some 40 minutes after the car had been towed away and all other responders had cleared the scene.

 

[Fishee]

...I think Strelzin and police believe that she didn't walk away from the crash site directly and then perish in the woods. Last week's news:

http://www.wmur.com/r/30403992/detail.html

His comments are on the video in the link I provided (see above).

Right - listen again. He says, "Did she...?" as in hypothetically.

 

[Unscripted]

Right - listen again. He says, "Did she...?" as in hypothetically.

Strelzin is the head of the New Hampshire Attorney General's homicide section.

 

[McSpy]

All sizes | IMG_9838 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Just posting this photo of the accident site for discussion once again.

This is the very spot (I estimated, but I can't be off by more than a foot or two) that maura wrecked at. Her car would've been facing the opposite direction but east-bound is what you see straight ahead.

Just some basic things to note.

Look at the mailbox that is just feet away and on the same side of the road where maura's car ended up. The house that belongs to this mailbox is actually closer to maura's car, although the house is pushed back further than the mailbox from the road thanks to the same tree-line that maura's car ended up near.

Although, you can't see it. Right past the mailbox is a corner lot that belonged to the contractor and included a house he was building as well as a trailer he was living in.

To the left side of the road, you can see where the school bus driver lived and that building you see was their two-car garage. the SBD's house is pushed back from the road a bit and on that night he parked his bus closer to his house instead of its normal spot which would be to the left-side of his driveway by the two-car garage.

It is clear to me that once he pulled his bus into his driveway that night to have his wife call 911 about maura (because of the tree-line you see at his residence) he would no longer be able to see maura at the wreck location because the trees would be blocking his view.

One last note. The search dogs began from where maura's car ended up and followed a trail east on Rt. 112 before coming to a screeching halt at the turn to Bradley Hill Rd.

Bradley Hill Rd. is just past the school bus driver's two car garage you see in the picture and both Rt. 112 and Bradley Hill Rd. run precisely parallel with the contractor's corner lot

Were these photos taken with a telephotot lens or zoomed in? In other words, some of the things in the background (weather barn) seem closer than reality? Thanks

 

[Simply Caustic]

The latest developments on Renner's blog are verrrrrry interesting, in my opinion. He quotes from court records, and states that the NHSP provided information about Maura's disappearance to the judge under seal during Fred Murray's lawsuit.

From the "motion to seal" by Senior Assistant AG, Nancy J. Smith:

Respondents respectfully request the opportunity to present information specific to this investigation to the court through in camera testimony without the petitioner [Fred Murray] present, and that the record of such testimony be sealed.

The above-italicized portion is credited to James Renner's blog.

I find it highly unusual, that the court allowed in camera (in the judge's chambers) testimony, without Mr. Murray - this is highly suggestive. There was something the Attorney General's office wanted protected from Mr. Murray (and, thus, the public). They have something - and they didn't want to tip their hand to the perp....who would have benefited greatly from LE's files being opened up (had Fred not lost the case).

 

[McSpy]

The latest developments on Renner's blog are verrrrrry interesting, in my opinion. He quotes from court records, and states that the NHSP provided information about Maura's disappearance to the judge under seal during Fred Murray's lawsuit.

From the "motion to seal" by Senior Assistant AG, Nancy J. Smith:

Respondents respectfully request the opportunity to present information specific to this investigation to the court through in camera testimony without the petitioner [Fred Murray] present, and that the record of such testimony be sealed.

The above-italicized portion is credited to James Renner's blog.

I find it highly unusual, that the court allowed in camera (in the judge's chambers) testimony, without Mr. Murray - this is highly suggestive. There was something the Attorney General's office wanted protected from Mr. Murray (and, thus, the public). They have something - and they didn't want to tip their hand to the perp....who would have benefited greatly from LE's files being opened up (had Fred not lost the case).

It looks like they think it was foul play. I wonder if the perp is known publicly in this case or if it is someone not known as being associated with this case . . .

What do you mean by "in camera"? Was the testimony shot with video? I guess they really wanted to impress upon the Judge that letting this info out would be harmful to the investigation and/or future prosecution of the perp.

 

[scoops]

Were these photos taken with a telephotot lens or zoomed in? In other words, some of the things in the background (weather barn) seem closer than reality? Thanks

Yes, most pictures I take will be zoomed in somewhat.

I use a sports action camera and mostly pinpoint my pictures on a certain object.

The lens, however, is a fairly small one and standard in most stores. So the zooming effect shouldn't be too misleading. (As far as distance goes).

 

[scoops]

It looks like they think it was foul play. I wonder if the perp is known publicly in this case or if it is someone not known as being associated with this case . . .

What do you mean by "in camera"? Was the testimony shot with video? I guess they really wanted to impress upon the Judge that letting this info out would be harmful to the investigation and/or future prosecution of the perp.

I still contend that most of what went on with fred attempting to get records released is more procedural then proof that a crime took place.

In the link that I posted on here to the video clip of one of fred Murray's hearings, it is very clear that the state's represenative was very unprepared for the grilling she got from the judges on why the state's investigators refused to release what had been found.

The judges basically implied that there better be good solid leads being worked pointing towards a crime otherwise, there was no good justification for the state to be keeping this investigation under wraps. And then out of nowhere we hear the statement by the AAG of NH that he felt there was a 75 percent chance of a conviction. and no elaboration was ever given about his statement and certainly no follow-up about that statement since.

 

[Kiln Wood]

It looks like they think it was foul play. I wonder if the perp is known publicly in this case or if it is someone not known as being associated with this case . . .

What do you mean by "in camera"? Was the testimony shot with video? I guess they really wanted to impress upon the Judge that letting this info out would be harmful to the investigation and/or future prosecution of the perp.

BBM

If I remember correctly, "in camera" is a legal term meaning in private or in the judge's chambers. The public and the media are not privy to "in camera" proceedings.

 

[McSpy]

BBM

If I remember correctly, "in camera" is a legal term meaning in private or in the judge's chambers. The public and the media are not privy to "in camera" proceedings.

Interesting . . . I had a feeling it meant something else other than taking pictures or video. I think "camera" means "room" in latin, if I recall correctly. I found this, if anyone is interested:

In camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[McSpy]

Well, I looked up "camera" and it is an Italian word for room.

 

[Simply Caustic]

Well, I looked up "camera" and it is an Italian word for room.

Kiln Wood had it -- in camera means (from a legal standpoint) in the judge's chambers. In this specific incident, the AAG requested, and was granted, that testimony be given in camera (and without Mr. Murray, or his attorney). The most notable portion of this, imo, is that Mr. Murray and his attorney were excluded - not because Mr. Murray was the POI, or anything like that - but because the AG's office is holding their case THAT CLOSE to the vest. IMO, and all that.

 

[Simply Caustic]

I still contend that most of what went on with fred attempting to get records released is more procedural then proof that a crime took place.

In the link that I posted on here to the video clip of one of fred Murray's hearings, it is very clear that the state's represenative was very unprepared for the grilling she got from the judges on why the state's investigators refused to release what had been found.

The judges basically implied that there better be good solid leads being worked pointing towards a crime otherwise, there was no good justification for the state to be keeping this investigation under wraps. And then out of nowhere we hear the statement by the AAG of NH that he felt there was a 75 percent chance of a conviction. and no elaboration was ever given about his statement and certainly no follow-up about that statement since.

You bring up a good point (about Strezlin's comment regarding the percentage-wise chance of filing charges). Notable, imo, at least, is that Strezlin really can't be "called out" on this comment: Sure, in the court of public opinion, yeah. But in regards to actually having to PROVE that there is a 75% chance of filing charges - well, that's simply not the case. He can say whatever he likes - there is no verification of that claim - not now, not ever. It's simply an approximation made by him, and I firmly believe that he is sincerely trying to preserve the integrity of his case....and thus, gave a percentage amenable to his cause.

I am in no way insinuating that Strezlin is doing anything untoward: I just think that his main focus is (as well it should be) protecting his case, chancing/hoping/assuming that charges will one day be filed. That's his job, and I am of the opinion that he ballparked that percentage to back up his case.

 

[scoops]

You bring up a good point (about Strezlin's comment regarding the percentage-wise chance of filing charges). Notable, imo, at least, is that Strezlin really can't be "called out" on this comment: Sure, in the court of public opinion, yeah. But in regards to actually having to PROVE that there is a 75% chance of filing charges - well, that's simply not the case. He can say whatever he likes - there is no verification of that claim - not now, not ever. It's simply an approximation made by him, and I firmly believe that he is sincerely trying to preserve the integrity of his case....and thus, gave a percentage amenable to his cause.

I am in no way insinuating that Strezlin is doing anything untoward: I just think that his main focus is (as well it should be) protecting his case, chancing/hoping/assuming that charges will one day be filed. That's his job, and I am of the opinion that he ballparked that percentage to back up his case.

Very good points and very well stated.

I guess it comes down to two versions then.

You either believe on one hand that the NH investigative team believes a crime took place and they have some building evidence that will one day lead to a suspect becoming a POI and then an arrest.

Or you belive on the other hand (with the way Fred has been relentlessy in pursuit of the truth and highly critical of the way his daugther's investigation hsa been handled) that the investigative team does not want Fred to ever see the results, because the results of their investigation may end up proving that Fred was on point about them all along.

And bottom line is without knowing 100 precent what happened to maura, all options need to and should remain open

 

[scoops]

Regarding Fred.

I first really learned about this case from when it first made its debut on the ID Disappeared series and I must admit, Fred Murray tore at the old heart strings because I felt (and still feel) that this was a tormented man who really wanted to find out what happened to his daughter.

While I don't believe Fred is keeping some deep dark secret hidden that would blow this case wide open and reveal what happened to maura, I do believe he knows more than what has ever been released.

I believe he wants people to look past the mysterious events that took place in the days leading up to her disappearance and only focus on the point from when she was last seen by neighbors (around the wreck site) on forward.

The problem with doing that is that it leaves all of those other mysterious events (incident at her security desk, first car wreck, abruptly leaving campus, unloading her checking account, unusal amount of alcohol purchase) unasnwered and unaccounted for and naturally people are going to keep focusing on that stuff until concrete answers are established.

So by telling people not to focus on that stuff it's all white noise, is actually encouraging them to keep looking that direction.

Fred, at some point, needs to come to terms that everything must be put out there. It must be found out why maura left abruptly. He may not know the direct answer to that himself, but he likely knows more.

 

[McSpy]

Regarding Fred.

I first really learned about this case from when it first made its debut on the ID Disappeared series and I must admit, Fred Murray tore at the old heart strings because I felt (and still feel) that this was a tormented man who really wanted to find out what happened to his daughter.

While I don't believe Fred is keeping some deep dark secret hidden that would blow this case wide open and reveal what happened to maura, I do believe he knows more than what has ever been released.

I believe he wants people to look past the mysterious events that took place in the days leading up to her disappearance and only focus on the point from when she was last seen by neighbors (around the wreck site) on forward.

The problem with doing that is that it leaves all of those other mysterious events (incident at her security desk, first car wreck, abruptly leaving campus, unloading her checking account, unusal amount of alcohol purchase) unasnwered and unaccounted for and naturally people are going to keep focusing on that stuff until concrete answers are established.

So by telling people not to focus on that stuff it's all white noise, is actually encouraging them to keep looking that direction.

Fred, at some point, needs to come to terms that everything must be put out there. It must be found out why maura left abruptly. He may not know the direct answer to that himself, but he likely knows more.

I know what you mean, but I can understand why he doesn't want focus on Maura's troubles. If I was in his shoes, I would probably feel the same way. We have to remind ourselves that she is his daughter, his little girl. Although, you're right, people will speculate if they aren't given any information, especially on the internet.

I'm pretty much settled on the eating disorder problem. To me, it fills in all of the blanks. It isn't verified or confirmed in anyway, but it does explain why she took those credit card receipts out of the trash can and bought food on someone's credit (people with certain eating disorders can eat a tremendous amount of food, usually in secret.) It also explains why she took off after crashing her dad's car. She was probably on some kind of probationary period at school for the credit card fraud, as well as upset with herself for messing everything up, especially after cracking up her dad's new car. Perhaps, her family didn't know about the credit card issue too. I think she went up to NH to sort things out.

I don't think I need anymore info on her past, unless there is info which suggests I'm right or wrong on my theory. I don't want to spread rumors, because my theory is not verified at all. I'd rather know the truth. However, my theory just fills in the blanks and makes sense out of her actions, but Fred was correct when he said that what matters is what happened to her after the NH accident. I'm still back to square one, even though I think I figured out why she ran to NH. JMO

 

[vtgirl]

Has anything been brought up about the skull,of. A white female, that was found in danby, VT. ?

 

[SuziQ]

Who is the 'sadistic madman' taunting family of missing coed with trolling video eight years to the day that she disappeared?

• Creep calling himself Mr112dirtbag posts footage of himself cackling uncontrollably
  
• Maura Murray never seen again after crashing car in New Hampshire in 2004
• Family dismiss videos as 'cruel and hideous'
  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-anniversary-disappearance.html#ixzz1n2CoIkP1

 

[McSpy]

Who is the 'sadistic madman' taunting family of missing coed with trolling video eight years to the day that she disappeared?

• Creep calling himself Mr112dirtbag posts footage of himself cackling uncontrollably
  
• Maura Murray never seen again after crashing car in New Hampshire in 2004
• Family dismiss videos as 'cruel and hideous'
  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-anniversary-disappearance.html#ixzz1n2CoIkP1

Some people think it is a guy, who has posted on the Franconia Maura Murray Topix forum for years, as well as other Topix Maura Murray forums. His theories usually have a conspiracy angle. They are very far-fetched and outlandish at best. He wouldn't last 2 days here, because his theories offer absolutely no evidence that they have an once of truth. His Topix name is "Beagle". Supposedly, he lived in Amherst at one time too. Most people feel he is mentally ill. One cause for concern was the video of the Bretton Woods x-country pass. The pass was dated Feb. 11, 2004. It suggests he was in the area Maura disappeared at the time. I hope the authorities checked it out. He is probably only trying to get attention with the videos, perhaps he exhausted his forum ramblings on Maura's disappearance, so he moved on to youtube. JMO