NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[McSpy]

Maura is beautiful! I hope she knew that.

Well said! She is beautiful and smart. Maura, where are you?

 

[Here to Help]

Hi All,

I am also a new poster to this forum but I have been following this case for a while now. I look forward to good conversation.

I have considered the idea of whether or not Maura may have taken a flashlight out of her emergency kit while she was seen at the trunk of her car. The moon was said to be almost full that night however a great point was made about Maura using the flashlight to be visible to traffic. I gave this some thought. If Maura was hiding from police then she probably would not be running with the flashlight on, but on the other hand it sure would be useful to her at some point along that dark road.

Another point about the flashlight is , if Maura did in fact take a flashlight with her then that could be one more item to add to the things to look for while searching or if someone stumbled on a flashlight it might have meant something or triggered a red flag.

 

[neverletgo]

:wagon:, to Websleuths and Maura's thread, Here to Help! Great first post!

 

[McSpy]

BBM, didn't know that.... very interesting!

I know I've mentioned this, but no way do I think she could have actually run on that kind of road surface (black ice, stones/holes from plowing) unless she had a flashlight.. perhaps there was some moonlight, but ever so tricky... based upon my experience running on winter nights...

I'm dismayed to find many of the articles on Maura's case have disappeared. Fortunately, some have posted the articles on forums. Here is a piece of a story on RF:

"A local contractor named Rick Forcier had reported seeing Maura on the night of her accident around 8 about 4 to 5 miles from the scene of her abandoned car. Forcier lived on Wild Ammonoosuc Road about 100 yards from where Maura's car was found.

Forcier was returning home from a contract job in Franconia about 17 miles away when he observed a young woman who fit Maura's description running eastbound on Route 112.

When Forcier was first questioned by police, ten days after Maura disappeared, he did not mention seeing the girl running because he was confused about the dates and mistakenly thought it had been two nights after Maura's accident.

Nearly three months later, after hearing numerous news reports about the search for Maura, Forcier checked his work records and realized it was the same night as Maura's disappearance. Forcier told his story to Fred Murray, who relayed the information to police.
This A-frame home on Valley Road in Woodsville was the site of a search by private investigators in October, 2006. Cadaver dogs trained to track the fluids of decomposing bodies picked up scents in the house, according to investigators. Carpet samples from the homes were reportedly sent out for testing. No results have been released. The house is 3/4 of a mile from the scene of Maura’s accident.

On April 29, Forcier was interviewed by State Police Lt. John Scarinza who checked out Forcier's time records at his job in Franconia and confirmed that his story was credible."​

​

Here is the Carla Baron/Psychic article (note the date):
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...11/missing_students_kin_skeptical_of_psychic/

Here is an excerpt from the above link:

"Baron said she believes Murray hitched a ride with “a clean-cut looking man” in a truck following her car accident the night of Feb. 9. The man then sexually assaulted her and buried her body in a sparsely wooded area that may be a construction site, Baron said."

The psychic's article happened before RF came forward with his sighting. It may mean nothing, but it could also mean he was trying to place Maura far from his home with his "sighting." (the dogs tracked her scent and it ended in front of his property). I have always thought it was possible he could have panicked and came up with that "sighting" plan. Perhaps, a co-worker mentioned the article to him and it worried him . . . JMO and all speculation, of course . . . .

 

[McSpy]

Hi All,

I am also a new poster to this forum but I have been following this case for a while now. I look forward to good conversation.

I have considered the idea of whether or not Maura may have taken a flashlight out of her emergency kit while she was seen at the trunk of her car. The moon was said to be almost full that night however a great point was made about Maura using the flashlight to be visible to traffic. I gave this some thought. If Maura was hiding from police then she probably would not be running with the flashlight on, but on the other hand it sure would be useful to her at some point along that dark road.

Another point about the flashlight is , if Maura did in fact take a flashlight with her then that could be one more item to add to the things to look for while searching or if someone stumbled on a flashlight it might have meant something or triggered a red flag.

I'm not sure there was a full moon that evening which was visible. In fact, I believe it was cloudy, which is why the temps stayed mild that night and for that time of year in NH. Clouds act like thermal blankets, because they keep the daytime temps in place. When there is a cloudless sky in the winter, often times it is very cold. The warmer temps from the day fly away into the cosmos. There is nothing to keep them in place. Boy, I'm sounding like a geek!!!! Anyway, I have always wondered about a flashlight too. It has never been mentioned in any of the media reports, so it is a mystery to most of us whether she had taken it from her emergency kit in the trunk. Wish I knew the answer! JMO

 

[Here to Help]

Hi McSpy

Thank you for posting the article. I agree many articles are gone (direct links). I am a little confused with the article you posted . The article talks about RF and his sighting but then goes into talking about the A frame and they are two completely different things. The A frame was connected to the Rusty knife and the brother of the man living in the A frame contacted Fred about the knife.

As far as the sighting RF had, I could be wrong but my recollection was that RF told a private Eye and they passed on info to the police. I don't recollect RF telling Fred but I could be wrong. It looks like you have two separate articles merged?

 

[Here to Help]

Sorry that I didn't include your post to my reply. I am still figuring out this forum works. Any feedback on how to do this would be appreciated.

 

[McSpy]

I see on James' blog there's mention by a commenter of what I've been harping on here - that despite MM being a good runner, it would have been near impossible on the road surface that night..
It seems as my mention of difficulty in running that night prompted the latest/recent blog entry - but when I asked
if there ever was a check made to see if she had a flashlight in her emergency kit, or elsewhere with her, (as with one she could have made a run) my comment was not posted. Interesting....
Considering how much has been made of her being a runner, and of her making a run for it from the accident scene, the flashlight (or any kind of runner's light) is of importance, but seems to have been overlooked completely.

Here's a link to a good comment by a fellow runner:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2013/02/maura-in-news.html#comment-form

IIRC BA moved to Florida and passed away. Wonder what ever happened to that gal he lived with and don't think there was ever mention of her being questioned by LE.

BBM

She could have got away with it in the daylight, but in the pitch darkness, her eyes wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace. She could have got hurt easily. JMO

 

[Here to Help]

I'm not sure there was a full moon that evening which was visible. In fact, I believe it was cloudy, which is why the temps stayed mild that night and for that time of year in NH. Clouds act like thermal blankets, because they keep the daytime temps in place. When there is a cloudless sky in the winter, often times it is very cold. The warmer temps from the day fly away into the cosmos. There is nothing to keep them in place. Boy, I'm sounding like a geek!!!! Anyway, I have always wondered about a flashlight too. It has never been mentioned in any of the media reports, so it is a mystery to most of us whether she had taken it from her emergency kit in the trunk. Wish I knew the answer! JMO

Yes I believe you are correct that it was over cast but it was also close to a full moon that night.It was rather mild almost like tonight- yea you have me thinking now (scarey) It may not have been light enough to really see without moonlight or a flashlight. I just have a hard time thinking that a young girl would wander down that dark stretch of road on a dark winters night. ullhair:

 

[McSpy]

Hi McSpy

Thank you for posting the article. I agree many articles are gone (direct links). I am a little confused with the article you posted . The article talks about RF and his sighting but then goes into talking about the A frame and they are two completely different things. The A frame was connected to the Rusty knife and the brother of the man living in the A frame contacted Fred about the knife.

As far as the sighting RF had, I could be wrong but my recollection was that RF told a private Eye and they passed on info to the police. I don't recollect RF telling Fred but I could be wrong. It looks like you have two separate articles merged?

Possibly, because I got it off a forum. Someone cut and pasted it from a news article. At any rate, I was just trying to say that it seemed RF came forward with his sighting of Maura after an article was published in the newspaper about the psychic's vision of Maura meeting with foul play.
Her scent was tracked and ended right in front of his house.

I'm not sure how he passed on his info. It makes sense that he told a PI, because the PI was probably canvasing the area and asking questions. Perhaps, RF mentioned during that time.

 

[Here to Help]

I just found the site that shows moon phases. You may have to put in the info. When I put in the numbers for 19:30 on Feb 9, 2004 and it comes up with 85% full. So yea not a full moon but fairly full but the variable is the clouds.

http://www.moonpage.com/index.html

 

[missingnotforgotten]

I'm dismayed to find many of the articles on Maura's case have disappeared. Fortunately, some have posted the articles on forums. Here is a piece of a story on RF:

"A local contractor named Rick Forcier had reported seeing Maura on the night of her accident around 8 about 4 to 5 miles from the scene of her abandoned car. Forcier lived on Wild Ammonoosuc Road about 100 yards from where Maura's car was found.

Forcier was returning home from a contract job in Franconia about 17 miles away when he observed a young woman who fit Maura's description running eastbound on Route 112.

When Forcier was first questioned by police, ten days after Maura disappeared, he did not mention seeing the girl running because he was confused about the dates and mistakenly thought it had been two nights after Maura's accident.

Nearly three months later, after hearing numerous news reports about the search for Maura, Forcier checked his work records and realized it was the same night as Maura's disappearance. Forcier told his story to Fred Murray, who relayed the information to police.
This A-frame home on Valley Road in Woodsville was the site of a search by private investigators in October, 2006. Cadaver dogs trained to track the fluids of decomposing bodies picked up scents in the house, according to investigators. Carpet samples from the homes were reportedly sent out for testing. No results have been released. The house is 3/4 of a mile from the scene of Maura’s accident.

On April 29, Forcier was interviewed by State Police Lt. John Scarinza who checked out Forcier's time records at his job in Franconia and confirmed that his story was credible."​

​

Here is the Carla Baron/Psychic article (note the date):
http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...11/missing_students_kin_skeptical_of_psychic/

Here is an excerpt from the above link:

"Baron said she believes Murray hitched a ride with “a clean-cut looking man” in a truck following her car accident the night of Feb. 9. The man then sexually assaulted her and buried her body in a sparsely wooded area that may be a construction site, Baron said."

The psychic's article happened before RF came forward with his sighting. It may mean nothing, but it could also mean he was trying to place Maura far from his home with his "sighting." (the dogs tracked her scent and it ended in front of his property). I have always thought it was possible he could have panicked and came up with that "sighting" plan. Perhaps, a co-worker mentioned the article to him and it worried him . . . JMO and all speculation, of course . . . .

Good catch. Do you or any one have an article that says what year he moved? Per an interview with James Renner "eventually Forcier sold his trailer and had it trucked away. When he did, the state police pulled the truck over and searched the trailer from top to bottom, a clever way to get around a search warrant. Forcier has since moved away from Haverhill"
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/08/forget-butch-atwood-and-rick-forcier.html

 

[McSpy]

Good catch. Do you or any one have an article that says what year he moved? Per an interview with James Renner "eventually Forcier sold his trailer and had it trucked away. When he did, the state police pulled the truck over and searched the trailer from top to bottom, a clever way to get around a search warrant. Forcier has since moved away from Haverhill"
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/08/forget-butch-atwood-and-rick-forcier.html

Don't know, but I can look into it. Although, there may be nothing on it. I don't believe he moved soon after Maura's disappearance. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Sorry that I didn't include your post to my reply. I am still figuring out this forum works. Any feedback on how to do this would be appreciated.

To reply to a post, click on the "quote" button below their post. This will open a text reply box. You'll see the other poster's post inside the box with a tag in the beginning and a tag at the end. Under their post and after the tag [/QUOTE], (at the end of their quote) you type your reply. Then you can submit your post by clicking on the the "submit" button under the text reply window. You can also preview your post before you submit, just in case you want to see if everything looks okay before actually submitting it.

Hope this helps!

 

[McSpy]

Since I am on the subject of RF . . I wonder if he was asked to take a polygraph test? Another thing, since his trailer was searched on the street, did LE ask him in the past if they could take a look around inside his trailer? If so, it seems his answer was "no." Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to search his trailer on the street when he moved. It looks to me they were monitoring him, so they could get an opportunity to search the trailer.
He could be just an innocent person who came forward with info to help find Maura, but who knows??

JMO

 

[McSpy]

Renner talked with people who knew RF and said RF didn't allow LE to search his trailer, so this explains why they waited for him to move it onto the street . . they pounced!

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/01/rick-forcier-rocks-out.html

 

[missingnotforgotten]

Since I am on the subject of RF . . I wonder if he was asked to take a polygraph test? Another thing, since his trailer was searched on the street, did LE ask him in the past if they could take a look around inside his trailer? If so, it seems his answer was "no." Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to search his trailer on the street when he moved. It looks to me they were monitoring him, so they could get an opportunity to search the trailer.
He could be just an innocent person who came forward with info to help find Maura, but who knows??

JMO

Don't know but came along this comment by a retired trooper on a Maura FaceBook group, "There was as I recall a "person of interest" who lived in close proximity to where her car was located. We were instructed explicitly not to go on his property and that he had an attorney who had gotten a court order barring us from accessing his property in any way." http://m.facebook.com/groups/112345...ink&id=604136436279544&__user=100004100263945

 

[missingnotforgotten]

Yes I believe you are correct that it was over cast but it was also close to a full moon that night.It was rather mild almost like tonight- yea you have me thinking now (scarey) It may not have been light enough to really see without moonlight or a flashlight. I just have a hard time thinking that a young girl would wander down that dark stretch of road on a dark winters night. ullhair:

I've had a hard time believing it, too, and only reason I've considered it at all is due to the RF sighting, which I'm leaning towards being bogus. But that is just my opinion based on my gut instinct and the fact that he waited until so far along to mention that he might have seen her.

 

[McSpy]

Don't know but came along this comment by a retired trooper on a Maura FaceBook group, "There was as I recall a "person of interest" who lived in close proximity to where her car was located. We were instructed explicitly not to go on his property and that he had an attorney who had gotten a court order barring us from accessing his property in any way." http://m.facebook.com/groups/112345...ink&id=604136436279544&__user=100004100263945

Thanks for pointing this out!
It is very interesting . . . Hmmm

 

[Unscripted]

Yes I believe you are correct that it was over cast but it was also close to a full moon that night.It was rather mild almost like tonight- yea you have me thinking now (scarey) It may not have been light enough to really see without moonlight or a flashlight. I just have a hard time thinking that a young girl would wander down that dark stretch of road on a dark winters night. ullhair:

Wunderground historical weather from February 9th, 2004 (St. Johnsbury, VT — closest location to Woodsville/Bath/North Haverhill, NH):

http://www.wunderground.com/history...+Johnsbury&req_state=VT&req_statename=Vermont

* waning gibbous moon (almost full), although may have been obscured by cloud cover.
* temperatures above freezing from 3pm to midnight, no wind chill (scroll way down Wunderground page for hourly conditions).
* wind calm to 4.6 mph during the evening.
* temperatures down to low-mid 20s F on the 10th and then dipped lower on the night 11th/12th.

WELCOME! Here to Help and missingnotforgotten, great to have you onboard.

:wagon: