NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[Riot]

I mentioned this in my post to SG, but one theory of mine for the email(s) is that she wanted something physical to focus on when she was thinking through whatever was bothering her. I've never claimed that something wasn't troubling her.

Regarding notes, if she were headed to commit suicide, wouldn't a note be better left in her dorm room than anywhere else? My impression is that she's far too close with her family to give them zero closure. (Was it you that suggested that she would write a note in NH?) I think the dorm room would be the best location because people would look for her there. Hell, if she left her car abandoned in NH while she went to some mountain, someone might steal it before it's linked to her. Furthermore, if MM did end up taking her own life, I just don't see her going someplace where people don't find remains for almost 10 years. I think this is even true in the "moved up timeline" scenario. How do you have time to completely disappear but not leave sign?

Now, if her plan was to start a new life, that might lead to no note and even the emails as a way of saying "this is why I'm gone, you cheating bastard." Where I'm finding that explanation lacking is that, given how close to her family she has been described, she didn't show back up when her mom as dealing with cancer. Her disappearance was publicized enough that it's plausible that she would have found out about her mom. Even if she didn't want to be back in their lives, she could have easily contacted a lawyer (one not anywhere near where she lived) to send a note on her behalf to give her mother some peace without endangering her new life.

Actually, if Maura is still alive, I hope she does something like that. Quiet note to one of her siblings through a lawyer, stating that she's alive and happy, and giving a piece of information that only the true MM would know. (Siblings over father, because the father is obviously tenacious in wanting to find her and might not give up the search if he had a lawyer to question.)

 

[scoops]

I mentioned this in my post to SG, but one theory of mine for the email(s) is that she wanted something physical to focus on when she was thinking through whatever was bothering her. I've never claimed that something wasn't troubling her.

Regarding notes, if she were headed to commit suicide, wouldn't a note be better left in her dorm room than anywhere else? My impression is that she's far too close with her family to give them zero closure. (Was it you that suggested that she would write a note in NH?) I think the dorm room would be the best location because people would look for her there. Hell, if she left her car abandoned in NH while she went to some mountain, someone might steal it before it's linked to her. Furthermore, if MM did end up taking her own life, I just don't see her going someplace where people don't find remains for almost 10 years. I think this is even true in the "moved up timeline" scenario. How do you have time to completely disappear but not leave sign?

Now, if her plan was to start a new life, that might lead to no note and even the emails as a way of saying "this is why I'm gone, you cheating bastard." Where I'm finding that explanation lacking is that, given how close to her family she has been described, she didn't show back up when her mom as dealing with cancer. Her disappearance was publicized enough that it's plausible that she would have found out about her mom. Even if she didn't want to be back in their lives, she could have easily contacted a lawyer (one not anywhere near where she lived) to send a note on her behalf to give her mother some peace without endangering her new life.

Actually, if Maura is still alive, I hope she does something like that. Quiet note to one of her siblings through a lawyer, stating that she's alive and happy, and giving a piece of information that only the true MM would know. (Siblings over father, because the father is obviously tenacious in wanting to find her and might not give up the search if he had a lawyer to question.)

I think she would've wanted to make sure she actually got to her destination before leaving an ultimate clue behind.

I think she would've locked up her car and left it to be found on the day she took her life.

I don't surmise her trying to hide herself somewhere completely isolated. I think she planned on going somewhere though that would have a personal connection with her.

Looking at other theories

She was meeting a new boyfriend:
Maura would have no reason to hide that info from a sister she entrusted and talked too every day about everything. the sister who knew maura and billy were having problems would definitely be in on maura and a new guy.

Maura started a new life:
And yet as close as she was to her family, she has had zero contact with them including not being around for her mother's death ... and all of this is over some credit card fraud or drinking issues some eight years after the fact. Or cause she met a new guy?

Maura was killed hitchiking from her accident scene:
Ok, so someone offers her a ride and (first of all she has nowhere to tell the driver to take her, she's in the middle of a national forest) sir can you drive me back to amherst? Really?

Or she has some mysterious place she blots out .. but before she enters the guy's car, she goes and (not grab her clothes and valuables, but rather a few bottles of alcohol) Really?

And if she left her car on foot because law enforcement were on their way. She didn't think to grab her clothes and valuables. the car was going to be towed, what is she going to do with no car in the middle of a national forest with a couple of bottles of alcohol play spin the bottle with a bear.

 

[MysteryMaven]

Maura's Disappeared episode was on yesterday. It refreshed a detail for me.
Apparently her scent was tracked by a dog to about 100 yards away from the car going down the road,then the scent was lost. I think she got a ride from someone and what happened after that we may never know.
She was trying to get away for a while-whether she was planning on ending her life, we don't know for sure. Her plan was interrupted by the accident. I would be inclined to think that she hid in the woods from police (didn't want to get caught drinking and driving) and then succumbed the elements, but the scent tracks tell a different story. The scent dog did not track her into the woods, but down the road away from the car.
I think she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Maybe someone heard about the accident on their police scanner and decided to check it out. Maybe that person was a predator. I really don't think she ran away from the car and was able to start a new life. It was cold, pitch black, she was on foot and unfamiliar with the area, and may have been drinking, all things that made her very vulnerable. There was a window of about 10 minutes from when the bus driver called 911 (It was reported that he went home to call 911 and also told his wife about the accident) and police arrived on the scene. To me, that's enough time for her to have been picked up by someone.
I really feel bad for her Dad. I don't think that digging into his statements and his life in general is going to lead to finding Maura. He is obviously in great pain and just wants his daughter found. I think JR is just grasping at straws with some of his blog postings, and it's just hurtful to Maura's family.
This case needs a real tip in the worst way. Finding out what happened in the 10 minutes after the accident will lead to Maura, not digging into whether she bought a pizza with someone else's credit card. Yes, she was distraught with things in her life and wanted to get away, but the real mystery is what happened after she walked away from her car. As other's have said, it's pretty hard to hide your own body, and I don't think she hiked up a mountain in the pitch black to kill herself after the accident.
JMHO.

 

[Skigirl]

Riot, FWIW, I agree with you that the most plausible explanation is that she really just wanted to get out of Amherst for a little while and threw caution to the wind vis-a-vis her car. I still think there's enough evidence that she had some kind of pretty serious problem with substances but to me, that's a symptom of whatever else was going on that made her want to get away. Petty theft is not something many college women do. Shoplifting for thrill-seeking purposes isn't unheard of, but someone who doesn't have some sort of issue is unlikely to do something like stealing a credit card. And the amount of food that she bought -- apparently to consume alone -- coupled with the fact that she was an athlete who had to keep her weight down, makes me think that she had some sort of issue with food. Food issues very often co-occur with abuse of other substances.

I still think that she most likely was randomly abducted after the crash, despite the hellish convergence of whatever issues may have led her to be there.

 

[Riot]

SG, Yeah, I agree that the evidence is there, and given your verified status, you probably have a better grasp on how these things typically present. I'll just leave that, at this time, I don't see the evidence being conclusive for the food/substance issues, but I'll await a theory or new evidence that tips me toward thinking that these issues are the simplest answer. Thanks for your reply!

 

[OldSteve]

Lots of good points being made!
I wonder if while at West Point MM went thru any survival courses or training?
One theory I had was that she might have sought shelter in RF's house under construction. (Remember he was the guy who later (weeks?) thought he saw MM some 5 miles away jogging)...
But my wife said no way would a gal go into the woods for shelter, and that my theory was the way a man would think, not a gal... but what if MM did go through some kind of survival stuff at West Point...

As for running away from the Haverhill crash - the road was dark and after the recent snow would have had stones kicked up by the plows (I've asked many times about if she might had a flashlight with her since that would make a difference). It was too early I think for a full moon, if there was one, to be overhead enough to light up the road, could be wrong on that.

I still go with a random abduction, and with here car in bad shape, booze in the car, when she stopped for gas someone might have seen her and thought her vulnerable, or as was said and perhaps more likely someone heard something on a scanner. IIRC their was another earlier accident and perhaps someone(s) were out looking for that and found MM instead...

Okay, all just IMO, and stirring up the pot since I like reading your thoughts on things!

 

[Skigirl]

Steve,

I asked my husband, who went to one of the service academies, and he says that after a year or two at West Point, you wouldn't really have that much survival training. You'd have a little bit, but (he says) just enough to know that you'd suffer hypothermia or at least be very uncomfortable very quickly after you stopped moving in the winter in New Hampshire, even if the temperatures were as high as the 40s or 50s.

I guess I could imagine a scenario in which she hid out just not wanting to be found by the police until her blood alcohol level went down if she'd been drinking, but thinking she'd make an evening (or longer) of it out alone in the woods without at least some winter camping gear seems unlikely to me.

I'm also enjoying the renewed discussion.

-SG

 

[MysteryMaven]

Very good points are being brought up here. Who is RF? What about other people-criminals, RSO's and such who lived in the area? Maybe it was discussed on thread 1-sorry if it was!

 

[Skigirl]

I wish we could have a "just the facts" thread where we could post things that are confirmed facts. I've seen those on other cases, and it's really helpful not to have to root through all of the threads to find things that have been established -- for example, now I can't remember what the temperature was that night, just that it was, to my recollection, not balmy.

Does a moderator need to start a thread like that, or can anyone do it?

 

[Stella]

I just watched the YT video and learned some new things. For instance, she had packed her running gear and school books and taken them with her, indicating that she had every intention of keeping up her regular routine while away. Who does that if they're contemplating suicide? She probably reached a point where she had to get away for a while and get some perspective or get her nerves back on keel. As for what happened to her, I think she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since there was no sign of a struggle, she apparently got into a car with her killer willingly. If she was drunk, her judgement about getting into a strange car would not have been all that it should. I don't believe I have commented on this case before or even read it in it's entirety; it would be a massive undertaking. I wish someone would write a book about it.

 

[MysteryMaven]

I have read that the temp that night was around 30 degrees.
A Facts Thread would be great! There are different reports on the case details, and it's hard to verify what's true. I am somewhat going off of the Disappeared program, because some of the info came directly from the mouths of LE.

 

[gnomony]

I wish someone would write a book about it.

http://mauramurray.blogspot.com

James Renner: "For all those following my investigation into Maura's case, I have one more round of interviews in the Spring and the book will be published in 2014. You can still send tips to me at [email protected]"

 

[SeekingJana]

I've never posted on her case in all these years. However, something about the blog posts and some YT videos I've recently watched about her lead me to the conclusion that she was a very self- destructive person. She used people and lied to get what she wanted and needed and never followed through or succeeded at anything. It is believed that she hit a man and left him to die on the side of the road. It is said that she was an alcoholic, a bulemic, and stole CCs to over-eat so her father would not know what she was doing. ( He could probably have gotten her help!!)

That she had an affair with a coach and was kicked off the track team. Was going to get kicked out of the nursing program and college.
IOW, a probable borderline personality disordered person with narcissistic traits.
The chronic credit card thefts JR has discussion about on his site do NOT make this woman a sympathetic character to me, added to the other things said about her lying, cheating, stealing, scheming.
I think she was leaving her old life behind because it totally sucked and she was going to get expelled from the nursing program, and probably had enough with the CC fraud AND the H and R if it did happen as a lot of people think, to prevent her from ever getting a nursing license anyway.

I have seen many posts which say that she was NOT driving alone that night. That she was driving " in tandem" with someone, probably an unknown male, and that after her wreck, he and she continued on to Canada ( possibly leaving N. America for parts unknown with Canada as the first stop only) and have been under the radar ever since.

Is this a fallacy?
Lastly, what is it about this woman's totally FUBARed life that keeps people glued to her case? JR's blog made me practically throw up, she seems so cold and calculating. Which is the truth? I am asking because I do not know.

 

[Mom who cares]

Jana, and I am speaking for myself only, it is Fred Murray's tireless effort to find his daughter that keeps me engaged in this case. MOO

 

[OldSteve]

I've followed this case for a long time now - it was the first case I saw when I happened upon finding the ID channel on cable.

Even though I followed for so long... All we get are snippets, out-of-context looks at events that took place in her life, and the lived of others we sleuth - but without talking and being in her presence I for one don't have a clue as to what she was really like.

 

[MysteryMaven]

I think part of what is so interesting about this case is the events leading up to her disappearance. Maybe she made some mistakes in her life but everybody does. I think her family deserves to know what happened to her. Yes, this case presents a pretty tantalizing mystery, but at the end of it all is a family who has no idea what happened to their daughter, sister, cousin, and friend. They may never know, and to me that's just heartbreaking.

 

[BeccaMN]

Maura's case is what lead me to WS. Regardless of what happened in her past (which I absolutely believe lead to her disappearance), she has a family who misses her and wants her back. I believe the reason that Fred Murray refuses to talk about Maura's past is because he wants people to focus on Maura being missing. Not the mistakes she's made. My theory is that Maura was bulimic and was developing a drinking problem and had to steel cc numbers to hide it from her family. UMASS finds out and threatens to expell her. She packs up her dorm room because she knows she's in trouble and probably moving very soon. Then she decides to get away for the week to think about what she's done and make some big decisions. She stocks up on booze and heads to the mountains while drinking alcohol on the way up. She gets drunk, gets in an accident and runs because a dwi is the last thing she needs. Unfortunately, I believe she got lost and succumbed to the elements. This is definitely jmo but after reading everything I could find, this is what I think could've happened.

 

[Darcyline]

I read about her case and did not feel like "throwing up" because of how cold she was or jeering at her for how "she never succeeded at anything", but rather extreme sympathy for someone who very clearly to me was having some sort of breakdown. I don't get cold and calculating from a lot of her actions, but rather scattered and panicky with a dose of too much alcohol. I don't know what happened to her or what type of person she is for sure (none of us do), but I have compassion for someone who was obviously struggling. I like to think that even at our lowest moments when we aren't acting like great people that there are still redeemable qualities and still a core of potential goodness that makes a life important.

I also never really believed she was driving with someone and then ran off with a mystery man to Canada. I have really seen nothing to support that and quite a bit that doesn't support it. I could be wrong though.

Oh and her running over a man and leaving him for dead is also pretty speculative and, to me, pretty doubtful unless I need to catch up and that was confirmed or supported? Last I skimmed basically said it would have been very difficult for her to have done it because she was at work.

 

[MysteryMaven]

My theory is that Maura was bulimic and was developing a drinking problem and had to steel cc numbers to hide it from her family. UMASS finds out and threatens to expell her. She packs up her dorm room because she knows she's in trouble and probably moving very soon. Then she decides to get away for the week to think about what she's done and make some big decisions. She stocks up on booze and heads to the mountains while drinking alcohol on the way up. She gets drunk, gets in an accident and runs because a dwi is the last thing she needs. Unfortunately, I believe she got lost and succumbed to the elements. This is definitely jmo but after reading everything I could find, this is what I think could've happened.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about the technical difficulty-was trying to quote up there ^Very concise explanation, and it makes total sense. I find the "running of to Canada with someone" theory implausible. There is really nothing to support it. She was having some trouble in life and needed to step away, and the accident changed her course. There is no concrete evidence that she was involved in the hit and run either.

 

[McSpy]

I've never posted on her case in all these years. However, something about the blog posts and some YT videos I've recently watched about her lead me to the conclusion that she was a very self- destructive person. She used people and lied to get what she wanted and needed and never followed through or succeeded at anything. It is believed that she hit a man and left him to die on the side of the road. It is said that she was an alcoholic, a bulemic, and stole CCs to over-eat so her father would not know what she was doing. ( He could probably have gotten her help!!)

That she had an affair with a coach and was kicked off the track team. Was going to get kicked out of the nursing program and college.
IOW, a probable borderline personality disordered person with narcissistic traits.
The chronic credit card thefts JR has discussion about on his site do NOT make this woman a sympathetic character to me, added to the other things said about her lying, cheating, stealing, scheming.
I think she was leaving her old life behind because it totally sucked and she was going to get expelled from the nursing program, and probably had enough with the CC fraud AND the H and R if it did happen as a lot of people think, to prevent her from ever getting a nursing license anyway.

I have seen many posts which say that she was NOT driving alone that night. That she was driving " in tandem" with someone, probably an unknown male, and that after her wreck, he and she continued on to Canada ( possibly leaving N. America for parts unknown with Canada as the first stop only) and have been under the radar ever since.

Is this a fallacy?
Lastly, what is it about this woman's totally FUBARed life that keeps people glued to her case? JR's blog made me practically throw up, she seems so cold and calculating. Which is the truth? I am asking because I do not know.

Are you on the right thread? IMO, Maura did have successes. She was a champion runner (IIRC, her record in state high school track has not been broken yet). She got into West Point (only the top 5% of high school grads get considered). It is also an appointment-- not just an acceptance. People, in high positions in the federal government such as Senators appoint kids into the military academies. She was on the honor roll at UMass Amherst. IMO, I do think she had a problem----possibly Bulimia or maybe an emotional problem, which drove her actions (cc fraud). I see her as a 21 year old who had some issues that needed attention, which is not unusual for that age. JMO

There is no evidence she was involved in the Vasi accident at all.