GUILTY NJ - Autumn Pasquale, 12, Clayton, 20 Oct 2012 - #2

[zero]

Isnt LURING considered premeditation?

Has to be proven that it was the intent to kill not steal

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[zero]

She was lured there under the presence they wanted to check out her bike & that they may have something she's like for her bike, but their true intention was to steal her bike & break it down for parts sales.

I disagree bike would have been broken down that quick.

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[zero]

I can't help but wonder if the younger one is a sociopath, incapable of remorse. He is also the one charged with luring.

I agree


R.I.P. Autumn

 

[Celt1997]

She was lured there under the presence they wanted to check out her bike & that they may have something she's like for her bike, but their true intention once she got there was to steal her bike & break it down for parts sales.

I agree. I was responding to Zero, who posted something along the lines that if she truly was going to get bike parts she would've have mentioned that to someone. Almost implying that the she wasn't going there for bike parts.

If she wasn't going there for bike parts, what is the luring charge for, then?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

There FB accounts were seized by authorities ( can not post day) I know what kids put on twitter. Understand you live here as do I . Unfortunately some info you have stated is incorrect. This is how rumors start

R.I.P. Autumn

Exactly.

 

[Wendy101]

Did she have a crush on the younger brother?

 

[nursebeeme]

If you are discussing something about the events surrounding the vanishing of Autumn Paquale please link it up with main stream media...

 

[Jersey*Girl]

FFT: riding bike somewhere. Boys saw her, said they have parts for her bike. That's luring. That also makes look like for the bike. So its not premeditated..

Msm: everybody knew they stole bikes.

In it together? Found something she wasn't suppose to?

R.I.P. Autumn

Not necessarily, premeditation can form in mere seconds. This is why the luring charge will hold fast. Proving murder in the first is another thing altogether. Could go with a lesser murder or manslaughter charge.

 

[Celt1997]

Not necessarily, premeditation can form in mere seconds.

Bolded and upsized as this seems to come up in almost every case we follow here on Websleuths. It cannot be stressed enough that premeditation does not have to be a "night before" kind of thinking. If two people are fighting and one makes an instantaneous decision to kill the other, then it has become premeditated.

 

[zero]

I agree. I was responding to Zero, who posted something along the lines that if she truly was going to get bike parts she would've have mentioned that to someone. Almost implying that the she wasn't going there for bike parts.

If she wasn't going there for bike parts, what is the luring charge for, then?

Who is to say she was going there at all?? Who's to say she wasn't on her way to somewhere else? Was she on her way back from somewhere? At 230 and ran into them.

Everybody assuming that she hung out there since 1230

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have a 17 year old who is mad on BMX-ing and his bike is worth as much as a small family car. He came home one day with a small box, opened it and unwrapped all the tissue paper carefully, like it was something precious and showed me, very proudly, a couple of bits of shiny silver metal. A pair of crank arms (the bits that attach the pedals to the bike frame). I wish I hadn't, but I asked how much ...... £199.00!

So, although I certainly don't understand how anyone could kill someone for a bike, I can understand the trade in bike parts being worth a lot of money.

This case has really got to me, as my son has a lovely group of friends, all into BMX-ing and they all look out for each other, whether the rider is 12 or 22. They loan each other parts, share lifts when they go to other parks and if anyone gets hurt, there are no end of volunteers to push broken bikes home and help the injured person up the road.

My 7 year old fell off a ramp recently and got knocked out. About 15 teenagers stood over him, called an ambulance and didn't leave his side until the ambulance had taken him away. Even when me and his dad got there (he'd gone to the park with his 4 older brothers), none of those boys/young men moved until they knew he was out of danger. And even now, when he goes to the park, they all make time to talk to him and make sure he has his helmet on.

The boys that did this to Autumn, are the exception - most kids into BMX, skating or skateboards are fantastic and caring people.

We carve our sons' initials into every single part before their bikes are put together. Then we take them to the police station to register them. Pictures & everything. It's the only way to go imo.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Been away for a while, so apologize if someone already thought of this & posted. Another reason I could think of why the Mom of the accused may have voluntarily turned her sons in is that she realized she could be charged as an accessory after-the-fact in a murder if she kept the information to herself and her sons were later charged with murder. For all we know, LE may have already had the Facebook postings, made a possible connection to the accused & approached Mom asking for help, with a little reminder about those pesky accessory after-the-fact issues she might face.

I was thinking, too, that she may have been "encouraged" by LE to turn the boys in...

However... I do still commend her willingness to do so...

JMO

 

[Celt1997]

Who is to say she was going there at all?? Who's to say she wasn't on her way to somewhere else? Was she on her way back from somewhere? At 230 and ran into them.

Everybody assuming that she hung out there since 1230

R.I.P. Autumn

I do agree with you that I don't think she was there since 12:30. I'm not sure how that plays into telling people about the BMX parts. If she just bumped into them, she wouldn't have had time to mention it, and, isn't that what you were suspicious of, that she didn't tell anyone?

 

[belimom]

Has to be proven that it was the intent to kill not steal

R.I.P. Autumn

I think if the intent was to cause severe bodily injury OR it is burglary, and someone dies in the process, it's still murder (can't find much on NJ statues about Murder 1, etc):

bbm

2C:11-3. Murder.
a. Except as provided in N.J.S.2C:11-4, criminal homicide constitutes murder when:
(1) The actor purposely causes death or serious bodily injury resulting in death; or
(2) The actor knowingly causes death or serious bodily injury resulting in death; or
(3) It is committed when the actor, acting either alone or with one or more other persons, is engaged in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or flight after committing or attempting to commit robbery, sexual assault, arson, burglary, kidnapping, carjacking, criminal escape or terrorism pursuant to section 2 of P.L.2002, c.26 (C.2C:38-2),....

http://nj-statute-info.com/getStatute.php?statute_id=1538

ETA: Further down at the link it says this:

b. (1) Murder is a crime of the first degree

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Isnt LURING considered premeditation?

If it ends in death then it could be considered a contributing factor of intent.

 

[Roselvr]

I live here. I have kids. They have FB accounts with nothing on them. They use twitter. You might be really surprised what kids put on twitter. <modsnip>

Mine use FB

 

[Hickory Born]

If you are discussing something about the events surrounding the vanishing of Autumn Paquale please link it up with main stream media...

Speaking of MSM, have they published the Search Warrants for the house yet?

 

[zero]

I do agree with you that I don't think she was there since 12:30. I'm not sure how that plays into telling people about the BMX parts. If she just bumped into them, she wouldn't have had time to mention it, and, isn't that what you were suspicious of, that she didn't tell anyone?

That if she left her house knowing she was going for bmx parts. She would of told someone at that age kinda "gloating or guess what I'm getting today"

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[zero]

Speaking of MSM, have they published the Search Warrants for the house yet?

What was found?

R.I.P. Autumn

 

[wyome]

Hey I happen to agree with you!
they could have taken it without her being on it! As i see it its not about the bike!
but that JMO

Or they could have taken it because they upped their game that Saturday afternoon. These were big boys who could have wanted that nice bike of hers, and thought it might be fun to terrorize a 12 year old and take it. Maybe they thought she'd just relinguish it, cry and run away. But she probably stood her ground and threatened to tell. game changer for the stupid and reckless.