GUILTY NJ - Brendan Creato, 3, found dead in Cooper River Park, 13 Oct 2015

[cattlekate]

http://6abc.com/news/questions-surround-death-of-brendan-creato/1066546/

This video has a medical expert, who is not associated with the case, suggest hypothermia can be a cause when other things are ruled out. The reporter adds that suffocation also could be a cause as it can leave few traces.

Are there other cases of suffocation of a three year old where the autopsy was inconclusive? You'd think there would be bruising resulting from a struggle. These are uncomfortable images, but Brendan was not a baby.

Also, you'd think the 60ish guy wheeling the baby carriage would've come forward by now, or a family member/neighbor who'd say "yeah, he lives around here and takes the baby on his morning walks." Apparently not, since police are knocking on doors about an abandoned stroller.

 

[curioser]

Well, there's obviously more going on than there is being released. Even the lawyer is getting updates from the media, not LE! But they must have been searching, they found the stroller. I would assume they have talked to the witness(es) who saw the man with the baby carriage. I have to believe that they are getting somewhere, even if we don't know where that may be.

Side note: Does anyone else find the use of the term baby "carriage" instead of "stroller" odd? Carriage makes me think of something old-fashioned, like this. Stroller makes me think of a more modern design, typical of what you see today. Maybe it's nothing, and the person who saw it uses the words interchangeably, but to me it indicates a specific type.

 

[cattlekate]

The term "carriage" has bothered me for days! I live in the U.S. West and thought this "carriage" noun was an eastern thing. We don't use the term carriage here.

Well, it's still highly suspicious LE hasn't released their guess about the time of death. Brendan ate dinner at gma's so those stomach contents are there. Brendan was found within 11 hours after gma and her son said he was delivered to the apartment. It wasn't that cold during the night. Liver temperatures and rigor should be fairly straight forward!

 

[charminglane]

The baby carriage has made a comeback, from what I hear and have seen.
Hipsters - gotta have it all.

 

[MalloryPike]

I don't find the use of "carriage" odd. I live in NJ and I hear carriage used more frequently than stroller. Especially among older relatives (like my mom. She is 60 and never says stroller). It might be regional.

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[amanda4374]

They already said they know he didn't walk to the location where he was found, which means someone placed him there, so where does hypothermia fit in?

 

[101010]

http://6abc.com/news/questions-surround-death-of-brendan-creato/1066546/

This video has a medical expert, who is not associated with the case, suggest hypothermia can be a cause when other things are ruled out. The reporter adds that suffocation also could be a cause as it can leave few traces.

Are there other cases of suffocation of a three year old where the autopsy was inconclusive? You'd think there would be bruising resulting from a struggle. These are uncomfortable images, but Brendan was not a baby.

Also, you'd think the 60ish guy wheeling the baby carriage would've come forward by now, or a family member/neighbor who'd say "yeah, he lives around here and takes the baby on his morning walks." Apparently not, since police are knocking on doors about an abandoned stroller.

If I remember correctly, in the "Baby Doe"
Bella Bond case, the autopsy was inconclusive and from what the media has said the mom's boyfriend suffocated her. That info was based on either what her mom or the boyfriend said to police though and not try autopsy. I think Bella was almost 3 when she was killed too.

 

[NJmom]

Hi everyone! This is my first post. Like others, this case has prompted me to create an account because I'm am a mother and just moved away from the area that child was living.

I have no idea what happened, but I don't believe it was the parents. If it was, then I hope they are convicted. If someone else was involved, I hope they're caught and the family gets closure.

That being said, I've read 4 of the 5 Missing 411 books and there are striking similarities between this case and many of the Missing persons cases written in those books. One point the author makes is that there are clusters of people who go missing from an area, but they happen decades apart and no connection is made. In 1957 a 3 year old girl went missing in Bellmawr (about 4 miles from Haddon Twp.) under unusual circumstances as well.

Has anyone heard of or read these books? I hope I'm not being irrelevant, but I had to ask. I pray the family gets the answers they deserve.

 

[Lynnsey]

I'm glad someone mentioned that, I was bothered by the mention of baby "carriage". I live in suburban NYC, and the only time I hear the word "carriage" is when someone talks about a shopping cart. To me, baby carriage is a somewhat dated, older term. And I'm not young, I'm in my early 40's! As a mom of two young boys who spends a lot of time on mommy boards on Facebook, etc, the only other term I've heard to describe strollers is "pram" which is a more European term I'm assuming. I don't think I've ever heard "carriage" used in the last 3 years.

Also, what do they think this "carriage" has to do with the case? Are they thinking this is what was used to transport Brendan to the park where he was found?

Also, I know he's not a baby....but since I have a just turned 4 year old and a 3 year old myself, I still think of my 3 year old as my baby boy. Heck, my 4 year old is my baby boy.

 

[charminglane]

NJmom

:balloons::welcome::newbie:

 

[perdedorita]

Hi all, Just a couple thoughts on the "carriage" topic. I agree with MalloryPike that it may have to do with the age of the speaker who used the term. I feel like a Baby Boomer might use that old-fashioned term interchangeably with the word "stroller."

I wonder though if it had to do with the orientation of the seat position. "Carriage" brings to mind a situation in which the baby is fully reclined, laying on his/her back. "Stroller" connotes more of an upright, seated position. Obviously, if someone was transporting an unresponsive person, they would have to be laid flat. I almost feel like the use of the word "carriage" as opposed to the more common "stroller" was deliberate, like they were telegraphing the fact that they believe this was the mode of transport. Has there been any description of the stroller that was found in the abandoned lot?

 

[AuctionGal]

Hi all, Just a couple thoughts on the "carriage" topic. I agree with MalloryPike that it may have to do with the age of the speaker who used the term. I feel like a Baby Boomer might use that old-fashioned term interchangeably with the word "stroller."

I wonder though if it had to do with the orientation of the seat position. "Carriage" brings to mind a situation in which the baby is fully reclined, laying on his/her back. "Stroller" connotes more of an upright, seated position. Obviously, if someone was transporting an unresponsive person, they would have to be laid flat. I almost feel like the use of the word "carriage" as opposed to the more common "stroller" was deliberate, like they were telegraphing the fact that they believe this was the mode of transport. Has there been any description of the stroller that was found in the abandoned lot?

I agree with this. Although the back of a stroller can on some can be laid all the way back so that the child can lay down. I myself would use the word carriage if it indeed was a carriage. I think it depends on your area, your age and your background as to what term you would use.

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[NJmom]

NJmom

:balloons::welcome::newbie:

Thank you!

 

[JerseyGirl]

A "carriage" is just another name for a stroller, but often refers to one where baby faces you

http://www.parents.com/baby/gear/strollers/stroller-buying-guide/

 

[renah]

Is it possible this child got locked into an unattended refrigerator? Perhaps the man seen pushing the carriage had one out on an outside porch he used for, say, a cooler for beverages? The old fashioned ones are a known hazard for children. Maybe the baby crawled in because he got scared after being alone outside by himself (trying to get to his grandma's house down the street?) and whoever discovered him afterwards panicked & took him to the park.

So sad, no matter what.

 

[amanda4374]

Is it possible this child got locked into an unattended refrigerator? Perhaps the man seen pushing the carriage had one out on an outside porch he used for, say, a cooler for beverages? The old fashioned ones are a known hazard for children. Maybe the baby crawled in because he got scared after being alone outside by himself (trying to get to his grandma's house down the street?) and whoever discovered him afterwards panicked & took him to the park.

So sad, no matter what.

Interesting theory!

 

[101010]

A "carriage" is just another name for a stroller, but often refers to one where baby faces you

http://www.parents.com/baby/gear/strollers/stroller-buying-guide/

I am in my 30s and when I think of a baby carriage I think of this: http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Shutterstock-baby-carriage.jpg I live in the United States by the way.


I have a 1 year old and we have a Mamas & Papas Urbo2 stroller and it has 3 different seat back positions. http://us.mamasandpapas.com/strollers/urbo2-stroller-black/invt/1037253w1 1.) fully upright 2.) somewhat reclined 3.) lying flat. One of the many reasons I picked this stroller is because I am a bit of a germaphobe and I don't like to change my son using public changing stations. I usually take him to my SUV to change him if it's convenient but if it's not and we are a long way from the car I can lie the stroller flat and change him on that. If the stroller seat didn't lie completely flat it would be very hard to change him on it. He never sleeps in the lie flat position though. He prefers the somewhat reclined position for sleeping. I am mentioning my stroller because of your link that states a "carriage" is sometimes what people call strollers when the seat faces you. The Urbo2 has a detachable seat and you can face it towards you or away from you. I always still refer to it as a stroller regardless of which way I have the seat facing though.


I am really curious to know what this "carriage" the police found looks like, especially since the witness said they could not see in the carriage since it had a blanket over it. If you put a blanket over the stroller I have, which is exactly the type of "carriage" aka stroller most people use these days, it would look funny and if I saw a person pushing a modern stroller (with the seat attached rather than an infant seat) with a blanket completely over it I would be very suspicious to me. When my son is sleeping or if it's just cold outside and I am pushing him around I will tuck a blanket around his legs and then pull the sun cover over his face to block the wind. It would be weird to drape a blanket over the entire stroller though and a typical baby blanket would be too small to drape over the entire thing anyway with a kid sitting in the seat.


With a carriage, like the one in the first link, the part where the baby lies seems to be deep and putting a blanket over the top of it would not be so suspicious to me though.


Our Urbo2 came with attachments so you could attach an infant seat to the frame rather than using the seat. When my son was still small enough to fit in his infant seat I would sometimes keep the handle up on the infant seat and then drape a baby blanket over that when I was pushing him around with it attached to the stroller. That worked but draping a blanket over the stroller with the seat attached would not work so well and would look odd and suspicious. If the old man in question was using the "carriage" (as the stories call it) to transport a 3 year old and he was in fact pushing what I describe as a stroller rather than a carriage there is no way a 3 year old would fit in an infant seat so he would have had to have the seat attached.

 

[perdedorita]

I think we're right to be suspicious of the carriage (and the fact it was called a "carriage"). **IF** it's true this was the method of transport, it would have had to either be a true carriage or a stroller laid back into the carriage position in order to accommodate the size of a 3 year old. I do actually find it strange that a blanket was draped over it. It's not like the temps were frigid and even if they were, a draped blanket doesn't really protect from the cold as well as tucking the blanket around the baby would. Plus, I know at least for me, you want to be able to see your baby and have your baby see out when taking a walk. I just can't help but think the draped blanket was concealing something that was too big for the space. I need to go back and read the description of the man and/or the carriage again. Like someone mentioned upthread, you'd think if it were an innocent, random neighborhood person they would've piped up to say "Oh, that was us on our morning walk. Yes, here's our yellow blanket." etc.

ETA: OTOH, the report of the carriage sighting was an hour after the father reported him missing. I don't know how to square that fact.

 

[amanda4374]

I think we're right to be suspicious of the carriage (and the fact it was called a "carriage"). **IF** it's true this was the method of transport, it would have had to either be a true carriage or a stroller laid back into the carriage position in order to accommodate the size of a 3 year old. I do actually find it strange that a blanket was draped over it. It's not like the temps were frigid and even if they were, a draped blanket doesn't really protect from the cold as well as tucking the blanket around the baby would. Plus, I know at least for me, you want to be able to see your baby and have your baby see out when taking a walk. I just can't help but think the draped blanket was concealing something that was too big for the space. I need to go back and read the description of the man and/or the carriage again. Like someone mentioned upthread, you'd think if it were an innocent, random neighborhood person they would've piped up to say "Oh, that was us on our morning walk. Yes, here's our yellow blanket." etc.

ETA: OTOH, the report of the carriage sighting was an hour after the father reported him missing. I don't know how to square that fact.

Regarding the timing of the "carriage" sighting, like the person a few posts back posited, maybe this man found Brendan's body on his property, panicked, moved him to the edge of the neighborhood in an old-fashioned carriage he's had for 40 years, and then dumped the carriage in the yard of the abandoned house. According to Google, sunrise on October 13 would be at 7:04 am, right around the time the man was spotted with the stroller and matching witness testimony. He probably would have felt it safest to dispose of the body before the sun came up.

Need fingerprints on that carriage and then to get samples from neighbor's that match the description. If this is a good tip and carriage man had something to do with this then he lives in the immediate vicinity.

 

[white rabbit]

http://www.phillyvoice.com/town-heartsick-over-unexplained-death-toddler/