NJ Lawmakers Consider Slavery Apology

[BhamMama]

.then our government finished off what was left of them.

Finished? I didn't know we were finished. There are over 512 different tribes in North America. We survive despite what has been done to us.

We don't want apologies. We want our money and control of our way of life back. They can't replace the minerals, heavy metals, oil and other goods they have stripped from lands that they pushed us onto but they could live up to one promise and pay, then get the hell out of our lives.

Apologies are as good as the person saying them. Coming from the government that means crap and the apology is crap.

I would rather have actions. As for the Nations. We have our own issues with fools who sign for every member, who dip their hands into wells of money that isn't theirs and generally make total fools of us all because they are greedy. Power turns people into animals that have no heart.

As far as apologizing for slavery. Too little, too late. No one lives that it would make a difference for, the ones that suffered from it. Words mean so very little when they fall on dead ears. They should have given honors, apologies and recognition to them when they were around to hear it.

 

[ember]

Finished? I didn't know we were finished. There are over 512 different tribes in North America. We survive despite what has been done to us.

I was talking about their minds so of course I didn't mean in a literal sense...because if that was the case, I wouldn't be here either. My grandmother was full blood. I was just simply saying the gov't began to think for them and decide their way of life...that's all. I didn't mean to offend.

 

[Nova]

Ember, you are right, of course, that the forefathers of most of us suffered privations. In fact, they were suffering in Europe (whether from famine, poverty, overcrowding and/or political oppression) or they wouldn't have immigrated to North America in the first place.

And there's no question that many faced discrimination when they arrived.

But that really doesn't compare with the history of African Americans or Native Americans who were classified as "sub-human" by law and for centuries. (I see no reason to choose between these two groups as to who better deserves an apology.) Their oppression was codified into law and institutionalized, and it is those official, governmental actions for which apologies are proposed.

(For the record, I certainly understand BhamMama's view that apologies so long after the fact are meaningless. But if others feel differently, as they apparently do, why not issue apologies for what we all agree were despicable acts?)

As for your argument that some African Americans are better off than they would be if their ancestors had never been taken from Africa, we really don't know what Africa would be like today if its entire colonial history had never happened. Certainly it was a more stable continent before European intervention (slavery being one aspect of that intervention).

But, to me, your basic argument is like saying the child conceived in a rape is better off than if she had never been born. Maybe so. But does that make the original rape less a crime?

 

[hipmamajen]

Apologies are as good as the person saying them. Coming from the government that means crap and the apology is crap.

Well put.

 

[hipmamajen]

Sorry, I'm just a little grumpy about the government these days. Long story, but I wouldn't want an apology, either. I'd want action.

 

[hipmamajen]

Sorry to keep posting. I just wanted to add that that's not to say that I know of what action should be taken now in regards to slavery, etc. It's been a long week, and I'm crabby, and I'm not sure I'm making sense. Thanks for bearing with me!

 

[Nova]

Sorry to keep posting. I just wanted to add that that's not to say that I know of what action should be taken now in regards to slavery, etc. It's been a long week, and I'm crabby, and I'm not sure I'm making sense. Thanks for bearing with me!

Not to worry, hipmama. You said nothing wrong and we all have weeks like that.

 

[hipmamajen]

Thanks, Nova

 

[zadari]

Because I had nothing to do with it and neither did anyone else that's alive today. Matter of fact, none of my relatives were involved. I owe no one an apology for slavery. I am very sorry it ever happened and I have no problem saying that. That should be enough.

It's over. Way over.

IMO bringing it up is only going to separate people more. Why do that?

My ancestors are from Germany, I feel horrible what the Nazi's did to Jewish people, Polish people and whoever else they murdered. My ancestors were not Nazis.

agreed this slavery business has been over for years .. give it a rest already .. alot of these slaves were loved by thier "owners " given property and freedom and some even married them . not everyone got mistreated .. it was wrong yes definately but we didnt do it our ancestors did . its over done with and blacks have as many rights as we do today which they should have .

 

[Nova]

Since miscegenation was illegal until the 1960s, I doubt many slave owners married their slaves. Raping them, on the other hand, was all too common.

Arguing that some slaves were happy is like arguing that some murder victims had miserable lives and are better off dead.

As for whether African Americans have equal rights today, so what? The proposed apology confers no new rights to anyone.

 

[reb]

Thank you guys for discussing this with a level head and without drowning in PC syrup.
And I agree with all who said that NATIVE AMERICANS deserve a sincere apology more than ANYONE!!! Blacks can go back to the 'motherland' if they want. (And strangely, VERY few of them do.) Whereas Native Americans have no place to go 'back' to!!! And as for making reparations to them,, it's pretty much way too late for that. Or, I should say, too little too late. This is why it's so unbearably sad to see the alcohol & drug problems in Native communities. I wish they could pull it together and be strong,, rise above. AND without anger, bitterness, hatred, violence, bloodshed, arrogance, brutishness, blatant hypocrisy (so called 'reverse' discrimination), destructive sociopathic/criminal behavior, (including self-destructive behavior), superficial materialistic greed, and endless blame for their failures (.......like some other people).
Easy for me to say, I didn't grow up on a reservation. However like many Americans I do have some native blood in me, so I'm somewhat 'flame-proof'!

 

[Masterj]

Thank you guys for discussing this with a level head and without drowning in PC syrup.
And I agree with all who said that NATIVE AMERICANS deserve a sincere apology more than ANYONE!!! Blacks can go back to the 'motherland' if they want. (And strangely, VERY few of them do.) Whereas Native Americans have no place to go 'back' to!!! And as for making reparations to them,, it's pretty much way too late for that. Or, I should say, too little too late. This is why it's so unbearably sad to see the alcohol & drug problems in Native communities. I wish they could pull it together and be strong,, rise above. AND without anger, bitterness, hatred, violence, bloodshed, arrogance, brutishness, blatant hypocrisy (so called 'reverse' discrimination), destructive sociopathic/criminal behavior, (including self-destructive behavior), superficial materialistic greed, and endless blame for their failures (.......like some other people).
Easy for me to say, I didn't grow up on a reservation. However like many Americans I do have some native blood in me, so I'm somewhat 'flame-proof'!

I am sure blacks appreciate your suggestion and permission to "go back to the motherland."

 

[Paladin]

I am sure blacks appreciate your suggestion and permission to "go back to the motherland."

I think what Reb meant was they have the option to do so as where Native American Indians do not.

 

[Cheetah]

It seems so simple to me. A state apologizing for being a part of a dark period in history. How can this even be a debate? Why do some people get so offended when an apology for slavery is mentioned. You can't put a spin on the "positives" of slavery. There was nothing good about it. African Americans were brought here in chains and shackles, many died on the journey alone. When they got here there were treated like animals. Sure they may have been fed and given a place to sleep, but if they refused to work they were killed. Did the United States have a formed Government that allowed the injustices to happen to the Indians?? Sadly, both Native Americans and African Americans were the victims of the white man's greed and power trip. Both deserve apologies but that won't end the fight for either race.

I've apologized many times for being a part of a race that has a history of injustices against minorities and those who don't look like us. My home is the motherland and I long for the day I can live there peacefully. Imagine what Africa would be like if slavery never happened.

While blacks may have equal rights, they certainly don't have an equal standard of living. They are held back by stereo-types as evident in some of these posts.

 

[miimaa]

Imagine what Africa would be like if slavery never happened.

Do you mean there would not be mass starvation if slavery never happened? Of course slavery was wrong - no one disagrees with that. But I don't agree with apologizing for a wrong that NO ONE LIVING TODAY committed.

While blacks may have equal rights, they certainly don't have an equal standard of living. They are held back by stereo-types as evident in some of these posts.

I have to disagree. This is not politically correct and I am certain I will offend many of you. I work at a community college and every year I meet black students from Africa and black students from Miami. Guess who speaks better English? The student from Africa. Blacks are creating their own standard of living. Each child in this country has access to a high school education. Beyond that college is the individual's choice and responsibility. I could not afford to go to college and my house is small but that is not the fault of anyone other than myself. How many generations are going to ride on the back of this thing?

 

[Pandora]

New Jersey officially said Monday that it has "profound regret" for practicing slavery, and became the first state north of the Mason-Dixon line to pass such apologetic legislation.

The legislation does not need the signature of New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine to become official.

A committee of the New Jersey Assembly last Thursday approved the resolution, just one of several steps lawmakers had to take by Monday, the last day of the current legislative session.

The Assembly and the Senate voted overwhelmingly -- 29-2 -- to approve the resolution. The resolution states that "the fundamental values of Africans were shattered; they were brutalized, humiliated and dehumanized."

New Jersey, it reads, had 12,000 slaves, one of the largest populations in the northern colonies.

The state was also the last to emancipate slaves, in 1846, it says.





More at link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/07/nj.slavery.bill/index.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

Do you mean there would not be mass starvation if slavery never happened? Of course slavery was wrong - no one disagrees with that. But I don't agree with apologizing for a wrong that NO ONE LIVING TODAY committed.



I have to disagree. This is not politically correct and I am certain I will offend many of you. I work at a community college and every year I meet black students from Africa and black students from Miami. Guess who speaks better English? The student from Africa. Blacks are creating their own standard of living. Each child in this country has access to a high school education. Beyond that college is the individual's choice and responsibility. I could not afford to go to college and my house is small but that is not the fault of anyone other than myself. How many generations are going to ride on the back of this thing?

Bravo!

 

[2sisters]

I see no need to apologize for something one was not presonally responsible for. I was never invovled with slavery, therefore there will be no apology from me over it. All of this IMO is getting out of hand. this meaning the apologizing for something that happened while we were not even alive, not yall talking!

 

[GonzoReiter]

New Jersey officially said Monday that it has "profound regret" for practicing slavery, and became the first state north of the Mason-Dixon line to pass such apologetic legislation.

The legislation does not need the signature of New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine to become official.

A committee of the New Jersey Assembly last Thursday approved the resolution, just one of several steps lawmakers had to take by Monday, the last day of the current legislative session.

The Assembly and the Senate voted overwhelmingly -- 29-2 -- to approve the resolution. The resolution states that "the fundamental values of Africans were shattered; they were brutalized, humiliated and dehumanized."

New Jersey, it reads, had 12,000 slaves, one of the largest populations in the northern colonies.

The state was also the last to emancipate slaves, in 1846, it says.

More at link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/07/nj.slavery.bill/index.html

now...that didn't hurt a bit, did it?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I see no need to apologize for something one was not presonally responsible for. I was never invovled with slavery, therefore there will be no apology from me over it. All of this IMO is getting out of hand. this meaning the apologizing for something that happened while we were not even alive, not yall talking!

Then I don't think you should apologize. However, that shouldn't have any bearing on what anyone else does.