NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

[KR2tonenow]

The cruise line also released a timeline indicating that Jordan and Caputo dined with another couple on the ship that evening, and that the two couples returned to their adjacent staterooms at 7:28 p.m.
Eight minutes later, Caputo left the room he shared with Jordan and went next door to visit the other couple, according to the cruise line.
“From that moment on, Mindy was alone in her stateroom,” the cruise line said in the statement. “At 7:53 p.m., surveillance cameras from the exterior of the ship capture Mindy falling overboard from her balcony, straight into the water.”

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/112-05152008-1534568.html


They weren't too seasick to go to DINNER. And we still don't know if the rooms had a door between them - certainly seems they didn't since Jorge went into the hall to visit them - not thru an adjoining door.

I don't think couples travelling together, would enter through another couples adjoined room. However he could re-enter backthrough the other couples room and we would not be the wiser.

I'm glad the FBI is on this, and once we get a statement from the other couple, this will shed some light into this mystery.

 

[Rum Tum Tugger]

I have just finished reading the first 200 posts on this thread. (Much more to go - so this point may finally have been posted by someone else.)

So far - many posters are making comments & referring to *the adjoining rooms* situation aboard the ship.

If I may offer a clarification ...

adjoining - means having a common boundary or edge - ie: touching - "abutting lots" - "adjoining rooms"

Many here seem to be making some inaccurate assumptions.

"adjoining rooms" does not necessarily mean "connecting rooms".

Please do not automatically *assume* there is a connecting door between the stateroom suites.
There "may" be one - a door with the ability to be locked from both sides - OR .. "no door" at all - simply *adjoining* rooms that have a common wall or boundary between them. As in - *rooms next door to one another* as these 2 couples most likely had.

I'm concluding that Jorge would not have entered the hallway (where he was videotaped) to enter their friend's suite next door - if they had requested "connecting rooms". (JMHO)


When we travel as a family "with small children/grandchildren" - we always reserve "adjoining & connecting" rooms so the children never have to leave the safety of parental supervision (never out of their room and *alone* in a common public hallway to reach a parent.) The connecting door between the rooms would be purposely left unlocked on both sides.

However - when we travel with another couple or a group of friends - whether on a cruise ship or hotel - we usually reserve adjoining rooms (next door to one another) but never connecting.


Rum Tum

 

[KR2tonenow]

Many here seem to be making some inaccurate assumptions.

"adjoining rooms" does not necessarily mean "connecting rooms".


Point taken, RT. I think most of us view "adjoining rooms" as a connected room with a door in between 2 rooms that can be easily unlocked from any room. However this might not be the case here.

see photo of NCL, Floor 9, balcony:

This stateroom features a combined sleeping/living area with two lower beds, a wardrobe and dressing table, bathroom with separate shower, and floor-to-ceiling doors that open to a private balcony. (166 sq. ft., balcony 37 sq. ft.)javascript: window.close();

 

[JBean]

While I agree there can be a difference between adjoining and connecting rooms, in this case the cruise ship deck plan specifically calls out where the rooms on the ship are connecting. However, while we do know that Mindy had the room next door to her friends and we also know that one room on one side was connected and the room on the other side was not. But what we do not know is which room her friends were in.
There were several references in articles to adjoining balconies and IMO that is where part of the confusion started. In this case adjoining means they share a common floor but there is no access to the side by side balconies and they are separated by a partition.

Here is the link to the deck plan and it shows which rooms are connecting:

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/fleet/deckplan.html?shipCode=DAWN

 

[philamena]

Hiyas Phil can I call you phil? It was the very end of Greta. It was not even 2 seconds. WAtch very closely. They barely showed it; just the fall into the water, and then Greta says; well you can clearly see there someone landing in the water.....and the splash. Horrible.

I have no idea what to think about this, did she commit suicide? Did he push her over? Or did she just lose her footing and fall over? Highly unlikely, I just dont see that happening. Maybe to a foolish kid, yes. But an adult?

And we will never know what she had "on board" as far as alcohol or drugs...
well maybe from cctv on deck dinner, the bars....maybe....

Very sad case. Their background was troubled, ergo; it troubles me.
What do you think?

Yes, of course you can call me phil.
Daggone it! I was watching Greta Friday night and right before it went off I changed the channel. :banghead: lol

For some reason I don't think she committed suicide. Knowing that her boyfriend is abusive makes me lean towards him harming her. But if he was in the next cabin......maybe she did fall overboard.

Someone here mentioned the scenario of her boyfriend locking her in their room leaving her with no way out but the balcony.

As you can clearly tell, :waitasec: I just don't know what to believe.

 

[FlowerChild]

Yes, of course you can call me phil.
Daggone it! I was watching Greta Friday night and right before it went off I changed the channel. :banghead: lol

For some reason I don't think she committed suicide. Knowing that her boyfriend is abusive makes me lean towards him harming her. But if he was in the next cabin......maybe she did fall overboard.

Someone here mentioned the scenario of her boyfriend locking her in their room leaving her with no way out but the balcony.

As you can clearly tell, :waitasec: I just don't know what to believe.

There is NO WAY to lock someone into their room! That wouldn't be allowed due to FIRE CODE and the room is not lockable from the outside in such a way that someone in the room couldn't exit into the hallway. Think about it - have you EVERY stayed in a hotel room thats someone could LOCK YOU IN from outside the room??? Same on a cruise ship.

You can lock the room from the INSIDE in such a way as to prevent someone outside the room from entering with their key using a deadbolt, chain or a flip over security lock - but that doesn't work from OUTSIDE the room - only inside. There is NO WAY Jorge could have locked Mindy in their room from the hallway and forced her to exit out onto the balcony and CLIMB OVER/AROUND the partition to the adjacent balcony to get out. It's impossible.

And the friends went to dinner with Jorge and Mindy and they ALL returned to their rooms together - 8 minutes later Jorge left his and Mindy's room to go to the friends room next door. The friends were NOT bedridden with seasickness, they had just been to dinner and I am sure they would have said something if Jorge had LEFT their room at any time before Mindy fell. Jorge called to report Mindy fell from the friend's room. That doesn't seem to me like they had a connecting room or that Jorge returned to the other room at any time before Mindy fell.

I still think Mindy was "cutting up" and planning to surprise the friends and Jorge by entering from their balcony instead of the hallway. It sounds to me like she and Jorge planned to visit/socialize with her friends before retiring for the night and she thought she would do something fun and a little crazy/wild instead of just knocking on their door. I saw the pictures of the partitions and it really didn't look impossible to climb around the partition from the railing - either sitting on it or standing on it. I'm sure Mindy WAS NOT the 1st person to try it. The problem was the wind and rain were more severe than Mindy expected and she lost her balance. She also could have been drinking - making her both braver and less coordinated than she would have been otherwise.

My Opinion

 

[Leila]

While I agree there can be a difference between adjoining and connecting rooms, in this case the cruise ship deck plan specifically calls out where the rooms on the ship are connecting. However, while we do know that Mindy had the room next door to her friends and we also know that one room on one side was connected and the room on the other side was not. But what we do not know is which room her friends were in.
There were several references in articles to adjoining balconies and IMO that is where part of the confusion started. In this case adjoining means they share a common floor but there is no access to the side by side balconies and they are separated by a partition.

Here is the link to the deck plan and it shows which rooms are connecting:

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/fleet/deckplan.html?shipCode=DAWN

From the deck plan it does appear that there are some rooms that are connecting, as they have an arrow on the common wall between two rooms. This is not unlike hotels where you can get two rooms with a connecting door between them.

 

[Leila]

Yes, of course you can call me phil.
Daggone it! I was watching Greta Friday night and right before it went off I changed the channel. :banghead: lol

For some reason I don't think she committed suicide. Knowing that her boyfriend is abusive makes me lean towards him harming her. But if he was in the next cabin......maybe she did fall overboard.

Someone here mentioned the scenario of her boyfriend locking her in their room leaving her with no way out but the balcony.

As you can clearly tell, :waitasec: I just don't know what to believe.

I don't think Mindy committed suicide. From all accounts, she was excited about the cruise and was going with another couple who were friends of hers, not the boyfriend's. So it comes down to being accidental or someone harmed her. At this point, I don't know what to think either. I guess it will be dependent on what the investigation reveals. I do sympathize with her family though. Because of the former domestic abuse, they've got every reason to be suspicious.

 

[SuziQ]

The thing to keep in mind here is the FBI refuted a previous statement from NCL and their investigation is ongoing. To me that includes the statement from NCL regarding their timeline according to the video. IMO, that leave alot to be desired.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't know what to think either. I guess it will be dependent on what the investigation reveals. I do sympathize with her family though. Because of the former domestic abuse, they've got every reason to be suspicious.

This is exactly where I stand.

 

[JBean]

From the deck plan it does appear that there are some rooms that are connecting, as they have an arrow on the common wall between two rooms. This is not unlike hotels where you can get two rooms with a connecting door between them.

yes. We know she was in a connecting room from the deck plan, we just don't know if it connected to the friends room or if the friends were in the room on the non-connecting side of her cabin.

 

[philamena]

SNIP....At this point, I don't know what to think either. I guess it will be dependent on what the investigation reveals. I do sympathize with her family though. Because of the former domestic abuse, they've got every reason to be suspicious.

Leila,
Looks like you and I have some of the same thoughts about this. I feel so sorry for Mindy's family.

 

[nanandjim]

I don't think Mindy committed suicide. From all accounts, she was excited about the cruise and was going with another couple who were friends of hers, not the boyfriend's. So it comes down to being accidental or someone harmed her. At this point, I don't know what to think either. I guess it will be dependent on what the investigation reveals. I do sympathize with her family though. Because of the former domestic abuse, they've got every reason to be suspicious.

Okay, if the friends were not his, it makes it even more suspicious that he would be in their room without her. It was a stage for his alibi, IMO.

 

[Morag]

They had seen the friends at dinner just minutes before. Yet, the BF rushes over there almost immediately, hardly time for a bathroom break. I mean, Gosh, these weren't teenagers or fraternity boys (sorry, frat boys and teens) who were giddy with freedom and excitement. I wonder if there was a planned activity which drew him over there- and I don't mean group sex. Believe it or not, people that age also indulge in substances, and it is frequently not a solitary activity.

 

[SweetPea2]

Her parents are adamant that she didn't 'accidently' fall overboard.

of course...they need to blame someone and while I do understand their pain it doesn't make him guilty. Just because he's an abuser doesn't make him a murderer.

 

[SweetPea2]

In my mind I have him next door , but the 2 of them are in communication out the balconies. he probably was aware that she was on the balcony especially if she was trying to get over there. I have it pictured that he could physically see her and perhaps when she slipped and hit some flashing or a part of the ship, she may have still been hanging on to the rail. he try to help in some way but couldn't and then she fell straight into the water.
This is just what I see in my minds eye and it explains how it was they knew she fell immediately and how she hit something but still fell straight in the water. I think there was an image ( in some people's minds)of her her falling a ways and hitting something, but I think if she did hit something it was right at the top where he could still try and grab her. But as it was she fell staright from the balcony into the water per the video.
IMO his location is not in question at all and this is an accident.

ETA: yes they do show him leaving the room and going next door and that story is confirmed by her friends where he was. Maybe she was handing him something or they were goofing around out the balcony and that's when she got the bright idea to just go next door that way.

this is how I think it happened as well. I can see this scenario perfectly.I don't understand why everyone insist it's a murder.

 

[philamena]

of course...they need to blame someone and while I do understand their pain it doesn't make him guilty. Just because he's an abuser doesn't make him a murderer.

I agree with that statement but I also think that his being an abuser makes him more likely to kill.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It would help to know the plans of the two couples for after dinner. Perhaps she wanted to change clothes to go dancing and he didn't need to change so he headed over next door.

I still don't see this being anything except a horrid accident.

 

[FlowerChild]

They had seen the friends at dinner just minutes before. Yet, the BF rushes over there almost immediately, hardly time for a bathroom break. I mean, Gosh, these weren't teenagers or fraternity boys (sorry, frat boys and teens) who were giddy with freedom and excitement. I wonder if there was a planned activity which drew him over there- and I don't mean group sex. Believe it or not, people that age also indulge in substances, and it is frequently not a solitary activity.

Maybe they "dressed" for dinner (we had to on our cruise if we ate in the main dining room) and Mindy wanted to change into something more "casual" and freshen her make-up after dinner....or the reverse, maybe Mindy wanted to wear something sexier to go out? Jorge would have changed faster (if he changed at all) or only taken off/changed his jacket before going next door. I can't see Mindy out climbing around on the wet balcony or crawling over the railing in a nice dress. It wasn't late and it was the 1st night of the cruise - perhaps they were going to have drinks and plan their on-shore activities with her friends or maybe they were planning go back out to the nightclub or the casino and Jorge was "checking in" with the other couple to see if they wanted to go with them? Those cabins are not large and perhaps Jorge was giving Mindy the cabin to herself for a little while? I don't see anything odd about Jorge going next door after only being in the room 8 minutes and Mindy NOT going with him - sounds like the standard "he's ready she's not" situation and he went on ahead, or said "I'll go see if the BlaBla's want to go with us while you get ready".

I don't see that Jorge allegedly being abusive to Mindy in the past makes him more likely to throw her off a balcony 9 stories above the ocean from the room next door. While it does happen, most men who are abusive do not kill their spouse/girlfriend - especially without some motivation to do so. There are NO REPORTS of them fighting at dinner or even being in a bad mood - and the friends obviously saw nothing to alarm them or they would have said so. And again, HOW could Jorge have planned to get her to fall off THEIR balcony while he was next door? It's not like he knew what the balcony was going to be like and they had only been on board the ship for like 7 or 8 hours. I'm not even sure he could REACH her around the partition between the balconies?

I see this as an accident, a tragic (for everyone who loved Mindy) accident that could not have been foreseen. I know Mindy's family is hurting but I do know from experience that people get CRAZY on cruises and do things totally out of character - and Mindy's Mother might not have been familiar AT ALL with Mindy's "party persona" - not something a woman in her late 40's would necessarily share with her mother. Partying stories are not something I share with MY MOTHER or HAVE EVER shared with her and I am about the same age as Mindy. I am sure Mindy's Mother knew about Mindy's career, her usual activities etc, but perhaps not so much what Mindy was like when she let her hair down and was partying --- like she would be on a cruise with her friends and her boyfriend.

My Opinion

 

[Floh]

What Flower Child said. i can see it.