SCM, did your BIL bring the whole family to Germany? I'm being nosy, so don't answer if you don't want to. But I'm curious, because if she was an au pair, then your BIL had other kids, right? So are they all in Germany, or did he leave them behind in the US?
NJ - Sean Goldman: Abducted and living in Brazil UPDATE: Coming Home
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SCM, did your BIL bring the whole family to Germany? I'm being nosy, so don't answer if you don't want to. But I'm curious, because if she was an au pair, then your BIL had other kids, right? So are they all in Germany, or did he leave them behind in the US?
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
No - my BIL did not have other kids - she wasn't HIS au pair!! (sorry if that was unclear) That said, IF my BIL had had other kids at the time this occurred, he would have made every effort to move them to Germany - or at least that is what he says and I believe it.
ETA - I do understand that it may not be practical for a parent to move to another country if he has another family here.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
This child's wishes should be honored, IMHO.
I'm just wondering if those of you that think the abductor should keep Sean if you believe that the man that kidnapped Stephen Staynor should have been allowed to keep him because he was his psycological parent and obviously loved him? I know he was molesting him but I'm sure he thought he loved Stephen. Why is the step father fighting so hard to keep Sean away from his father? Parent alienation is abuse. I have watched parent alienation up close and personal and I can tell you the kids have been destroyed and it will take years of counseling for them to have any hope of living a normal life.
I believe you would feel different if the woman took the child to another Country without telling your BIL and then refused to allow him any access to his child. Saying that the step father was the psychological parent. This has worked out great for your BIL because he had the means to go to another Country and make a living. But mainly because he has access to his child. I commend him for doing it. But in Sean's case they don't want to allow his father access to his own child. I believe it is all in how you look at it. As a parent, I can not imagine that at anytime I would be ok with a step parent raising them instead of myself. Especially if they were abducted to another Country and kept for years away from me. I just can not see myself saying after someone stole my children, oh well they are happy, so they can have them. I'm sure you all think I am selfish but I happen to think I am the best Mother my children will ever have.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Did the child's stepfather limit access between the child and Goldman - did the Mother try to limit access before she died?
I understand why Goldman wants his son. I also understand why the stepfather wants him and thinks it would be in the child's best interest to stay where he is. I also understand why the child want to stay where he is. It is a complicated case without easy answers - at this point, based on what I know, I would not uproot the child again.
Yes, my BIL scrounged up enough money to get a ticket to Germany and he has scraped by making a living, but it has not been easy. If Goldman can come up with legal fees, he can come up with a ticket to Brazil.
If my husband took my sons and ran back to Ireland (where he is from) and he didn't come back to the US, I would go there! I can't tell from what I have read what Goldman's circumstances were and why he is not in Brazil.
I don't think you are selfish at all for thinking you are the best Mom to your kids - I am sure that is true! That said, for me (and me only - I don't really care to impose my beliefs on others), real selflessness would be taking the painful path for myself to protect the child from the stress of a protacted custody war AND possibly being wrenched out a situation where he was comfortable and thriving.
I would probably, in the beginning, try to "fight" to see the child if I weren't being allowed that, but I doubt I would stay in that sort of struggle for very long. If the situation called for letting the child go instead of struggling and possibly harming the child more, I would pray for the strength to let go.
I come from a situation where I felt like the rope in a tug of war in my parent's divorce. I consider "legal" wrangling over children abusive - it did more damage to me than I can put into words and it wasn't even this level of "war." So, of course, my perceptions about the case are filtered through that experience. My level of psychic pain from that experience is such that I would let my child go before I would knowingly tug one end of the rope.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
I do agree that parental alienation is abuse. Like I said in my earlier post, I consider legal wrangling over child custody abuse unless it is COMPLETELY hidden from the child and that is rare, of course.
Can you tell me why Goldman didn't go over to Brazil after he determined his wife was staying there with his son? Was there some legal restriction that stopped him from seeing Sean?
ETA - I'm not saying the child's stepfather is blameless in this matter - it takes two parties to pull a child in half (with help of course from countless attorneys, counselors, etc.....)
Just me, Brazil is sanctionizing kidnapping. The Brazil stepfather has no legal claim except what the Brazil courts allows him. This is very unethical, and I find it all deeply disturbing. Why should Goldman be required to move to Brazil to see his own son. Let the Brazilian stepfather move to NJ to stay a part of Sean's life. The child will adjust to his new/old home. This Brazilian family can bend the rules and they have deeper pockets to keep the fight going. The alienation is being created by the refusal of the stepfather to give the child back to his real father.
Question, when the mother died in childbirth did the baby survive?
Question, when the mother died in childbirth did the baby survive?
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC, the baby did survive the Mother's death and is Sean's half-sibling of course and is being raised with him.
Open, I agree with you that via the letter of the law, Brazil is not complying with international law....of course, lawyers being lawyers, they are using loopholes (which we can find in just about any law) to justify their position. Some of the justifications make sense to me - ie, the boy is settled into the family he has known for 5 years.
I have to wonder if the stepfather and father, each out of mutual love and affection for the child, couldn't have served the child better by coming to some healthy arrangement outside the presence of
lawyers I guess each dug their feet in and so I guess that ship has sailed and it's sad. The biggest loser, of course, is the child.
kgeaux
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Maybe Brazil wouldn't give your butt the right to live there? :blowkiss: Seriously, countries can control who they let in and for how long.
kgeaux
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Boy, that's something to think about.
I do totally agree that this boy has been the victim of deliberate attempts by his "step-father" to alienate him from his biological dad. And I totally agree that is abusive behavior on the part of step-dad. I know that there is probably no child on earth who wants to leave the known for the unknown, And I know age 9 is VERY young to be expected to make a decision that will govern the rest of his life----especially because he is constantly under the influence of step-papa who is surely putting pressure on him to remain in Brazil.
I also know this boy should never have been separated from his bio-dad. That the bio-dad loves him and has never stopped fighting to have a relationship with him, to regain custody of him. The length of their separation is due to legal games played by the step-dad, and I don't for one minute believe this man has played these games because he is so in love with someone else's son. His behavior and use of the court system is punitive, imo.
I think this child is being asked to make a decision with only half of the information he needs and that is so distressful. I truly believe his bio-dad deserves to have custody of his very own child. This man LOVES his child; he will do what is best for the boy.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC, the baby did survive the Mother's death and is Sean's half-sibling of course and is being raised with him.
I agree, but the stepfather never had a legal claim on this child, and he initiated this tug of war with his unreasonable and invalid claims. The stepfather has made the father look like the heavy for not relinquishing his rightful claim. I am appalled the law in any country would disavow a birth father the right to raise his child. If this was reversed, and the Brazilian stepfather was trying to get his child back, would he feel the former husband of his deceased wife had more rights to raise his child. Just my opinion, but I would think absolutely not. Goldman is an honest man and good father. It's not easy to move to a foreign country. There are many hurdles to jump -- visas, new job, new home, etc. Once Goldman is in Brazil, the stepfather will have the leverage to manage all events. Since he has already twisted and manipulated the law to control this situation, I don't think they would be satisfied to let Sean live with his father six days a week. My opinion, but that offer was made to make Goldman look bad. An attempt to make him look selfish because he does not want surrender his life, his rights, his culture to live in Brazil and allow the stepfather to call all the shots.
When was the last time Sean was in the states? Where is a neutral party that can ask Sean what he wants without pressure from the Brazilian family or his father to influence how he answers?
Brazil obviously doesn't care about Goldman's right at all. Even if he did get in, it doesn't mean they wouldn't change their mind and tell him to leave. This kind of judicial abuse is scary.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Openmind,
Do you know what the arrangement was (or if there was any arrangement at all) between the Mother and Goldman after the Mother took the child to Brazil?
I know it's not easy to move to a foreign country - I watched my BIL do this in order to be with his son. It was a difficult path for him to take. It is still a difficult path for him to take. He takes it to be in his son's life.
According to this article, the sister did survive.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31232695/ns/today_people/
I found some information here -- a blogger's opinions and comments. LOL to the adjective "hot."
More information here:
http://www.zimbio.com/Sean+Goldman/articles/9/David+Goldman+Reunited+Son+Kidnapped+Motherquote]
That is exactly what they are claiming.
I have to wonder if the stepfather and father, each out of mutual love and affection for the child, couldn't have served the child better by coming to some healthy arrangement outside the presence of
But the Brazilian family acts like David is some interloper that has the audacity to want his son when he should be happy they will let him see Sean at all.
From here: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/22/crimesider/entry5104145.shtml
Obviously, Sean is not coming to the USA to visit. So much for David's family's rights to see their grandson, nephew, etc.
But your BIL's child is living with his biological mother. If she passed away, would the child stay in Germany and be raised by the stepfather? For me, the big difference is the fact this is between a biological father and a stepfather. The Brazilian stepfather is in total control even to the point to defying international law and will allow David only access to his child in Brazil. If your BIL wanted to bring his child to the states, could he?
BTW, I truly admire your BIL.
I don't think the analogy works because Staynor was raped repeatedly. However, I totally agree that parental alienation is abuse. I know someone who suffered from horrible parental alienation as a child. She has narcissistic personality disorder now. She is seriously weird. In my practice, I am routinely exposed to parental alienation. It's heartbreaking. It's emotional abuse and it's exactly what those people are doing to Sean.
That's something many parents of children involved in international abductions do. It does not help from what I have observed.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
I'm too close to bed to read all these links and respond in full, but I promise I will do that tomorrow. Thanks so much for taking the time to respond.
I did want to say that if my BIL's son's mother died, I am pretty sure my BIL would NOT bring him back to the States. The child is now 13 and has lived in Germany since he was 2. Also, the child has two other siblings from his Mom and her current husband. I know my BIL would want those relationships as well as his son's relationship with his stepfather to continue. You ask some great questions and I will Facebook my BIL and see what he says.
Like you, I admire my BIL. I do not know if I could do what he has done. I do know it has been a struggle for him on a number of fronts - as you can imagine - moving to a different country.
Thanks again for the links and I will read them all tomorrow.
Thanks again for the links and I will read them all tomorrow.
Good night, good rest.
OT --sorta
A few years back my husband's office was burglarized. I struck up a conversation with the young policewoman that was taking fingerprints on the furniture, and I asked how she came to her job. She said she was divorced and her husband had moved to A*****. She wanted her child to have a healthy childhood with both parents active in his life so she considered her options, and decided to move to be closer to the dad and pursue police work. I liked her immensely. She was professional, polite (patiently answering my questions) and understood that childhood is truly very short and the importance of putting her child first. If only all children where so valued.
fran
Former Member
I personally think this whole case is BS. This woman decided that she didn't want to live in the U.S. anymore because she had to work. If she moved home to Brazil, she could live off her parents. She lied to her husband and said she was going on vacation and when she got there, she gave her husband a Father's Day gift with a phone call and that she would not be returning and neither would his child. He was then, for four years, denied visitation with his own son.
The wife remarried a year or two prior to her death. She died. This is HIS son, not the step-dad's. This family should NOT be rewarded for this woman's bad behavior. This dad should NOT be punished because he was out-smarted and not as rich as and lied to by his own wife.
This case isn't about love for this family in Brazil. It's about control. It's about control because they can. But if they think that boy isn't going to grow up and resent what they've done, they are sadly mistaken. Even if this Brazilian family ends up keeping physical custody of this child, they will loose in the end, mark my word. That child will some day find out the truth and he will NOT be happy with them. They may end up loosing him in the end. When he sees, as an adult, what they did to him as a child and what they've put his father through, he's going to be one unhappy man.
The first four years of this child's life were spent in the U.S. When he was taken to Brazil by his mom, he had to adapt. He could adapt back to the environment in the U.S. This child belongs with his dad.
JMHO
fran
The wife remarried a year or two prior to her death. She died. This is HIS son, not the step-dad's. This family should NOT be rewarded for this woman's bad behavior. This dad should NOT be punished because he was out-smarted and not as rich as and lied to by his own wife.
This case isn't about love for this family in Brazil. It's about control. It's about control because they can. But if they think that boy isn't going to grow up and resent what they've done, they are sadly mistaken. Even if this Brazilian family ends up keeping physical custody of this child, they will loose in the end, mark my word. That child will some day find out the truth and he will NOT be happy with them. They may end up loosing him in the end. When he sees, as an adult, what they did to him as a child and what they've put his father through, he's going to be one unhappy man.
The first four years of this child's life were spent in the U.S. When he was taken to Brazil by his mom, he had to adapt. He could adapt back to the environment in the U.S. This child belongs with his dad.
JMHO
fran
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