NM - Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 21 Oct 2021 #6

[Marantz4250b]

If HGR is going to claim that someone loaded a live round into the gun in between the time she gave it to DH and the shooting, the DA is going to have to explain why they quickly gave DH such a sweetheart deal.

All she needs to do is introduce reasonable doubt.

It seems reasonable that there could be doubt about whether she loaded that particular round as the gun was out of her sight for a period of time. That doubt may be strengthened by the fact that DH didn't call her back.

We know that some live rounds were in the gun belts because the police found them there. Was the gun in its belt holster rig when she handed it to DH? Did he or someone else mess about with the gun - perhaps practicing loading/unloading it and unwittingly chambering a live round where one was not present when Hannah loaded it?

Maybe something along those lines happened? Maybe it didn't. Is it unreasonable for something like that to have happened, though? That's for a jury to decide but it's not something I would consider to be unreasonable.

If Dave Halls had done what she - as the resident expert - told him to do then one of two things would have happened; she would have checked it in front of AB and spotted the live round and two people would not have been shot, or; she either wouldn't have checked it properly or checked and been mistaken. In any event the heat would be off AB and DH right now.

Bottom line is that it would appear that Hannah did her job as she was supposed to and according to the protocols in place at the time. I'm not seeing any evidence that she didn't.

 

[Cool Cats]

All she needs to do is introduce reasonable doubt.

It seems reasonable that there could be doubt about whether she loaded that particular round as the gun was out of her sight for a period of time. That doubt may be strengthened by the fact that DH didn't call her back.

We know that some live rounds were in the gun belts because the police found them there. Was the gun in its belt holster rig when she handed it to DH? Did he or someone else mess about with the gun - perhaps practicing loading/unloading it and unwittingly chambering a live round where one was not present when Hannah loaded it?

Maybe something along those lines happened? Maybe it didn't. Is it unreasonable for something like that to have happened, though? That's for a jury to decide but it's not something I would consider to be unreasonable.

If Dave Halls had done what she - as the resident expert - told him to do then one of two things would have happened; she would have checked it in front of AB and spotted the live round and two people would not have been shot, or; she either wouldn't have checked it properly or checked and been mistaken. In any event the heat would be off AB and DH right now.

Bottom line is that it would appear that Hannah did her job as she was supposed to and according to the protocols in place at the time. I'm not seeing any evidence that she didn't.

Ship has sailed. Gutierrez Reed admits she loaded the live round into Alec's gun. She is being specifically accused of this in her indictment. No one thinks she didn't load the live round. Her lawyer admits it even. But her lawyer's defense is that someone sabotaged the box of blanks with a live round.

‘Rust’ Investigation: Where Did the Live Round Come From?

The 'Rust' investigation still has yet to answer one of the key questions: Where did the live round come from?

variety.com

‘Rust’ Prosecutors Allege Armorer Brought Live Ammunition Onto Set

"Rust" prosecutors are trying to prevent "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed from discussing set safety violations.

theblast.com

Armorer bought live rounds before 'Rust' shooting, prop supplier told police

Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is the only person still facing charges in the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after prosecutors in April dismissed a charge against actor Alec Baldwin ...

news.yahoo.com

‘Rust’ armorer thought she loaded the gun with dummy rounds, lawyer says​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/entertainment/rust-set-safety/index.html

Even though they were the same brand, the live rounds looked slightly different from the dummies. The dummies had a gold-colored primer, while the primer on the live rounds was silver. A dummy round would also rattle when shaken — a BB is placed inside — and a live round would not.

When she loaded Baldwin’s gun, Gutierrez Reed said she pulled four bullets without primers from her pocket. She pulled two others from a box. She said she checked all of them to make sure they were dummies.

But one of the rounds was live. It had a silver primer.

“That didn’t stick out to you when you loaded that gun?” Hancock asked. “The rest of them were not the same color?”

“No,” Gutierrez Reed said.

Gutierrez Reed acknowledged that she had only been working as an armorer for a few months, and had no formal training. There is no official certification process for film armorers.
____________________________________________________________________________________

The “Rust” armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with what she thought were dummy rounds before Alec Baldwin used it on set.

“There was a box of dummy rounds and the box is labeled dummy. Hannah did take from that box which she by all accounts should have been able to rely on, that contains only dummy rounds,” said Gutierrez Reed’s lawyer Jason Bowles.

“She loaded rounds from that box into the handgun only to later find out – and she had no idea – she inspected the rounds, that there was a live round. Now we don’t know, however, whether that live round came from that box.

We’re assuming it did. We’re assuming somebody put the live round in that box, which if you think about that, the person who put the live round in the box of dummy rounds had to have the purpose of sabotaging this set. There’s no other reason you would do that.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________

The court documents allege that “Ms. Gutierrez was unable to distinguish between the two and inserted a live round in the prop gun being used by Alec Baldwin’s character.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Live ammunition is strictly prohibited from being present on movie sets.

The prop supplier for “Rust” said the movie’s armorer told him that before the production she bought the same type of ammunition as the live round that killed the cinematographer during filming in 2021, according to sheriff’s office records.

In text messages released by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office (SFCSO) in response to a Reuters public records request, Seth Kenney, owner of prop supplier PDQ Arm & Prop, told SFCSO Detective Alexandria Hancock that Gutierrez-Reed told him in a telephone conversation after Aug. 3, 2021, that she had bought live .45 long Colt ammunition to shoot in her own gun.

 

[Ruby12345]

Her defense seems to be to blame SK according to this article:

‘Rust’ Armorer’s Attorney-Client Texts Mistakenly Given to Key Witness

Alec Baldwin's co-defendant, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, sought to have her 'Rust' case thrown out, citing mishandling of attorney-client communications.

variety.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Her defense seems to be to blame SK according to this article:

‘Rust’ Armorer’s Attorney-Client Texts Mistakenly Given to Key Witness

Alec Baldwin's co-defendant, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, sought to have her 'Rust' case thrown out, citing mishandling of attorney-client communications.

variety.com

Yup. She's guilty of loading the live round but to pass the buck off, her attorney says that Kenney is the one who put the live round into the box of dummies in the first place.

Proof? I don't think so.

As part of his defense at trial, Bowles plans to argue that Kenney was responsible for mixing a handful of live rounds in with hundreds of dummies. The attorney-client text messages included discussion of that strategy.

2 Cents

 

[Marantz4250b]

Ship has sailed. Gutierrez Reed admits she loaded the live round into Alec's gun. She is being specifically accused of this in her indictment. No one thinks she didn't load the live round. Her lawyer admits it even. But her lawyer's defense is that someone sabotaged the box of blanks with a live round.

‘Rust’ Investigation: Where Did the Live Round Come From?

The 'Rust' investigation still has yet to answer one of the key questions: Where did the live round come from?

variety.com

‘Rust’ Prosecutors Allege Armorer Brought Live Ammunition Onto Set

"Rust" prosecutors are trying to prevent "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed from discussing set safety violations.

theblast.com

Armorer bought live rounds before 'Rust' shooting, prop supplier told police

Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed is the only person still facing charges in the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after prosecutors in April dismissed a charge against actor Alec Baldwin ...

news.yahoo.com

‘Rust’ armorer thought she loaded the gun with dummy rounds, lawyer says​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/03/entertainment/rust-set-safety/index.html

Even though they were the same brand, the live rounds looked slightly different from the dummies. The dummies had a gold-colored primer, while the primer on the live rounds was silver. A dummy round would also rattle when shaken — a BB is placed inside — and a live round would not.

When she loaded Baldwin’s gun, Gutierrez Reed said she pulled four bullets without primers from her pocket. She pulled two others from a box. She said she checked all of them to make sure they were dummies.

But one of the rounds was live. It had a silver primer.

“That didn’t stick out to you when you loaded that gun?” Hancock asked. “The rest of them were not the same color?”

“No,” Gutierrez Reed said.

Gutierrez Reed acknowledged that she had only been working as an armorer for a few months, and had no formal training. There is no official certification process for film armorers.
____________________________________________________________________________________

The “Rust” armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with what she thought were dummy rounds before Alec Baldwin used it on set.

“There was a box of dummy rounds and the box is labeled dummy. Hannah did take from that box which she by all accounts should have been able to rely on, that contains only dummy rounds,” said Gutierrez Reed’s lawyer Jason Bowles.

“She loaded rounds from that box into the handgun only to later find out – and she had no idea – she inspected the rounds, that there was a live round. Now we don’t know, however, whether that live round came from that box.

We’re assuming it did. We’re assuming somebody put the live round in that box, which if you think about that, the person who put the live round in the box of dummy rounds had to have the purpose of sabotaging this set. There’s no other reason you would do that.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________

The court documents allege that “Ms. Gutierrez was unable to distinguish between the two and inserted a live round in the prop gun being used by Alec Baldwin’s character.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Live ammunition is strictly prohibited from being present on movie sets.

The prop supplier for “Rust” said the movie’s armorer told him that before the production she bought the same type of ammunition as the live round that killed the cinematographer during filming in 2021, according to sheriff’s office records.

In text messages released by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office (SFCSO) in response to a Reuters public records request, Seth Kenney, owner of prop supplier PDQ Arm & Prop, told SFCSO Detective Alexandria Hancock that Gutierrez-Reed told him in a telephone conversation after Aug. 3, 2021, that she had bought live .45 long Colt ammunition to shoot in her own gun.

I disagree. None of those articles suggest that she outright admitted loading the round. At best she accepted that she must have done when presented with a scenario which offered no alternative.

At no time did she answer yes when asked did you load the live round, that I can find.

The gun was out of her sight for several minutes - we do not know what happened to it during that period. As far as I can see that most definitely brings up a legitimate question as to reasonable doubt. That's ultimately for a jury to decide but it would definitely cause me to consider reasonable doubt. The chain of causation between her loading it and AB shooting it is broken.

On top of that, her instructions to Dave Halls were not followed because he handed it to AB after being told very specifically by her not to. Even if she did load a live round - which I do not think has been proved beyond doubt yet - she wasn't given the opportunity to correct her mistake because Dave Halls didn't call her back to check it. The SAG guidelines say that the armourer checks the gun and gives the actors and anyone else present the opportunity to watch and question. DH and AB know that this was supposed to be done because it was done every single previous time (and the likes of George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright have confirmed that this is the procedure) yet that didn't happen.

She did her job according to the rules. If the AD and the actor handling the gun don't allow her to do her job and disregard their instructions then that's not on her.

The part about the different coloured primers is bogus. Primers come in either silver, brass or - in very old ammo and some Eastern european/Chinese military ammo - copper colours. The fact that the one in the live rounds had silver (nickel plated) primers and the others were brass is irrelevant.

Those colours are not methods of determining live rounds from dummies. It's just different makers and you use what's available. It is coincidence that the live ones used different primers. Nothing more. It would not be unusual for dummies in the same box to have different coloured primers and the same would be true of live ammo. I could probably go to my gun room now and find a box of reloads with different coloured primers. Checking for dummy ammo consists of either looking for a hole in the side or hearing/feeling the bb inside, not looking at primer colours or other things like bullet shape, crimp, etc.

I also think the allegation of her buying a box of .45 Colt ammo is bogus too; that report is months old and if SK's defence has been able to prove that from the credit card statements, as he claims they were going to do, then I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

Additionally, we know that the live round involved was loaded with Star-Line brass. Star-Line do not make loaded ammo. They only make empty brass. This was handloaded ammo so trying to prove that she bought it was a wild goose chase, quite frankly.

Yes, admittedly, there are some small producers of custom ammo which do use Star-Line brass in their products (because the case requires very expensive production facilities to manufacture) but they are few and far between and are usually expensive.

 

[Cool Cats]

I disagree. None of those articles suggest that she outright admitted loading the round. At best she accepted that she must have done when presented with a scenario which offered no alternative.

At no time did she answer yes when asked did you load the live round, that I can find.

The gun was out of her sight for several minutes - we do not know what happened to it during that period. As far as I can see that most definitely brings up a legitimate question as to reasonable doubt. That's ultimately for a jury to decide but it would definitely cause me to consider reasonable doubt. The chain of causation between her loading it and AB shooting it is broken.

On top of that, her instructions to Dave Halls were not followed because he handed it to AB after being told very specifically by her not to. Even if she did load a live round - which I do not think has been proved beyond doubt yet - she wasn't given the opportunity to correct her mistake because Dave Halls didn't call her back to check it. The SAG guidelines say that the armourer checks the gun and gives the actors and anyone else present the opportunity to watch and question. DH and AB know that this was supposed to be done because it was done every single previous time (and the likes of George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright have confirmed that this is the procedure) yet that didn't happen.

She did her job according to the rules. If the AD and the actor handling the gun don't allow her to do her job and disregard their instructions then that's not on her.

The part about the different coloured primers is bogus. Primers come in either silver, brass or - in very old ammo and some Eastern european/Chinese military ammo - copper colours. The fact that the one in the live rounds had silver (nickel plated) primers and the others were brass is irrelevant.

Those colours are not methods of determining live rounds from dummies. It's just different makers and you use what's available. It is coincidence that the live ones used different primers. Nothing more. It would not be unusual for dummies in the same box to have different coloured primers and the same would be true of live ammo. I could probably go to my gun room now and find a box of reloads with different coloured primers. Checking for dummy ammo consists of either looking for a hole in the side or hearing/feeling the bb inside, not looking at primer colours or other things like bullet shape, crimp, etc.

I also think the allegation of her buying a box of .45 Colt ammo is bogus too; that report is months old and if SK's defence has been able to prove that from the credit card statements, as he claims they were going to do, then I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

Additionally, we know that the live round involved was loaded with Star-Line brass. Star-Line do not make loaded ammo. They only make empty brass. This was handloaded ammo so trying to prove that she bought it was a wild goose chase, quite frankly.

Yes, admittedly, there are some small producers of custom ammo which do use Star-Line brass in their products (because the case requires very expensive production facilities to manufacture) but they are few and far between and are usually expensive.

Her own lawyer thinks she loaded it and the interview speaks for itself which the jury can see.

What you say does not hold up in court, trials do not work that way.

For example, say someone's DNA was found under a victim's nails. Well the defense can't get up in court and say someone planted the defendant's DNA to frame them without evidence. Court isn't about
"Maybe" "Could have" you have to show evidence.

Evidence that after Reed loaded it someone else took a dummy out of the gun and then
snuck in a live round. After a million investigations zero has come up for this scenario but not zero that Reed loaded it.

Evidence = Reed


2 Cents

 

[Dotta]

I disagree. None of those articles suggest that she outright admitted loading the round. At best she accepted that she must have done when presented with a scenario which offered no alternative.

At no time did she answer yes when asked did you load the live round, that I can find.

The gun was out of her sight for several minutes - we do not know what happened to it during that period. As far as I can see that most definitely brings up a legitimate question as to reasonable doubt. That's ultimately for a jury to decide but it would definitely cause me to consider reasonable doubt. The chain of causation between her loading it and AB shooting it is broken.

On top of that, her instructions to Dave Halls were not followed because he handed it to AB after being told very specifically by her not to. Even if she did load a live round - which I do not think has been proved beyond doubt yet - she wasn't given the opportunity to correct her mistake because Dave Halls didn't call her back to check it. The SAG guidelines say that the armourer checks the gun and gives the actors and anyone else present the opportunity to watch and question. DH and AB know that this was supposed to be done because it was done every single previous time (and the likes of George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright have confirmed that this is the procedure) yet that didn't happen.

She did her job according to the rules. If the AD and the actor handling the gun don't allow her to do her job and disregard their instructions then that's not on her.

The part about the different coloured primers is bogus. Primers come in either silver, brass or - in very old ammo and some Eastern european/Chinese military ammo - copper colours. The fact that the one in the live rounds had silver (nickel plated) primers and the others were brass is irrelevant.

Those colours are not methods of determining live rounds from dummies. It's just different makers and you use what's available. It is coincidence that the live ones used different primers. Nothing more. It would not be unusual for dummies in the same box to have different coloured primers and the same would be true of live ammo. I could probably go to my gun room now and find a box of reloads with different coloured primers. Checking for dummy ammo consists of either looking for a hole in the side or hearing/feeling the bb inside, not looking at primer colours or other things like bullet shape, crimp, etc.

I also think the allegation of her buying a box of .45 Colt ammo is bogus too; that report is months old and if SK's defence has been able to prove that from the credit card statements, as he claims they were going to do, then I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

Additionally, we know that the live round involved was loaded with Star-Line brass. Star-Line do not make loaded ammo. They only make empty brass. This was handloaded ammo so trying to prove that she bought it was a wild goose chase, quite frankly.

Yes, admittedly, there are some small producers of custom ammo which do use Star-Line brass in their products (because the case requires very expensive production facilities to manufacture) but they are few and far between and are usually expensive.

What does it mean that

"The gun was out of her sight for several minutes"???

As an armourer,
no gun must have EVER been OUT of her sight when ON SET.

These are the rules of a film armourer in my country.

Period!!!

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Her own lawyer thinks she loaded it and the interview speaks for itself which the jury can see.

What you say does not hold up in court, trials do not work that way.

For example, say someone's DNA was found under a victim's nails. Well the defense can't get up in court and say someone planted the defendant's DNA to frame them without evidence. Court isn't about
"Maybe" "Could have" you have to show evidence.

Evidence that after Reed loaded it someone else took a dummy out of the gun and then
snuck in a live round. After a million investigations zero has come up for this scenario but not zero that Reed loaded it.

Evidence = Reed


2 Cents

There is evidence that it was out of her possession for several minutes. This is incontrovertible - everyone agrees that it is fact.

That in itself could, imo, reasonably introduce doubt into the minds of jury members.

There is evidence that Dave Halls ignored her instructions to call her back. This is incontrovertible - everyone agrees that it is fact.

Had she loaded the live round then calling her back - as she instructed him to do - would have given her the opportunity to spot the live round (regardless of who actually loaded it) and swap it.

The rules of gun handling - and the SAG rules - are there to make sure that live ammo or blanks are not in guns when they should not be. She followed the rules. At worst she made a mistake when loading it but was never given the opportunity to spot that mistake because Dave Halls and Alec Baldwin did not follow the rules they knew all too well.

 

[Cool Cats]

What does it mean that

"The gun was out of her sight for several minutes"???

As an armourer,
no gun must have EVER been OUT of her sight when ON SET.

These are the rules of a film armourer in my country.

Period!!!

JMO

That is the point. Rules weren't followed on this set.

The gun wasn't even in her sight when the actor was using it to rehearse. She didn't even give the actor the gun. Rules flew by the wayside.

2 Cents

 

[Dotta]

That is the point. Rules weren't followed on this set.

The gun wasn't even in her sight when the actor was using it to rehearse.

2 Cents

It makes me soooo angry

A wonderful woman was killed.
A boy lost his Mum.

Do your job properly or get lost!!!!

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

What does it mean that

"The gun was out of her sight for several minutes"???

As an armourer,
no gun must have EVER been OUT of her sight when ON SET.

These are the rules of a film armourer in my country.

Period!!!

JMO

She loaded the gun, went to the church and left it with Dave Halls.

She gave DH specific orders to call her back should AB arrive because the rules required that she check the gun in the presence of the actors and crew and personally hand it to him. Had he done that she would have had the opportunity to spot the live round, regardless of how it got there. In addition, it would have given her the opportunity to stop the filming while they investigated whether there were any further live rounds on the set.

There was no problem in her leaving the gun with DH as long as DH did what he was instructed to do because it was going to be checked by her before handing to AB.

 

[Marantz4250b]

That is the point. Rules weren't followed on this set.

The gun wasn't even in her sight when the actor was using it to rehearse. She didn't even give the actor the gun. Rules flew by the wayside.

2 Cents

None of which was down to her.

She told Dave Halls quite specifically that she needed to hand the gun to Baldwin and to call her back.

This was a case of other people ignoring the rules, not the armourer.

 

[Cool Cats]

None of which was down to her.

She told Dave Halls quite specifically that she needed to hand the gun to Baldwin and to call her back.

This was a case of other people ignoring the rules, not the armourer.

I would like to read about that...appreciate the links, thanks.

 

[ch_13]

I disagree. None of those articles suggest that she outright admitted loading the round. At best she accepted that she must have done when presented with a scenario which offered no alternative.

At no time did she answer yes when asked did you load the live round, that I can find.

The gun was out of her sight for several minutes - we do not know what happened to it during that period. As far as I can see that most definitely brings up a legitimate question as to reasonable doubt. That's ultimately for a jury to decide but it would definitely cause me to consider reasonable doubt. The chain of causation between her loading it and AB shooting it is broken.

On top of that, her instructions to Dave Halls were not followed because he handed it to AB after being told very specifically by her not to. Even if she did load a live round - which I do not think has been proved beyond doubt yet - she wasn't given the opportunity to correct her mistake because Dave Halls didn't call her back to check it. The SAG guidelines say that the armourer checks the gun and gives the actors and anyone else present the opportunity to watch and question. DH and AB know that this was supposed to be done because it was done every single previous time (and the likes of George Clooney and Jeffrey Wright have confirmed that this is the procedure) yet that didn't happen.

She did her job according to the rules. If the AD and the actor handling the gun don't allow her to do her job and disregard their instructions then that's not on her.

The part about the different coloured primers is bogus. Primers come in either silver, brass or - in very old ammo and some Eastern european/Chinese military ammo - copper colours. The fact that the one in the live rounds had silver (nickel plated) primers and the others were brass is irrelevant.

Those colours are not methods of determining live rounds from dummies. It's just different makers and you use what's available. It is coincidence that the live ones used different primers. Nothing more. It would not be unusual for dummies in the same box to have different coloured primers and the same would be true of live ammo. I could probably go to my gun room now and find a box of reloads with different coloured primers. Checking for dummy ammo consists of either looking for a hole in the side or hearing/feeling the bb inside, not looking at primer colours or other things like bullet shape, crimp, etc.

I also think the allegation of her buying a box of .45 Colt ammo is bogus too; that report is months old and if SK's defence has been able to prove that from the credit card statements, as he claims they were going to do, then I'm sure we would have heard about it by now.

Additionally, we know that the live round involved was loaded with Star-Line brass. Star-Line do not make loaded ammo. They only make empty brass. This was handloaded ammo so trying to prove that she bought it was a wild goose chase, quite frankly.

Yes, admittedly, there are some small producers of custom ammo which do use Star-Line brass in their products (because the case requires very expensive production facilities to manufacture) but they are few and far between and are usually expensive.

I think that claiming that someone else loaded the round will not be a fruitful defense for Hannah. From the lawsuit I linked to earlier, Hannah has made the following claims:

48. For Alec Baldwin’s gun, Hannah loaded 4 dummy rounds with holes in them from her pants pocket, a 5th dummy round from the box with a hole in it and attempted to load a 6th dummy round without a hole in it from the box but it would not go into the chamber, and she thought the chamber might need to be cleaned.
49. Hannah remembers shaking the 6th round to ensure herself that it was a dummy round.
...
56. Hannah remembered the chamber that she believed needed to be cleaned in Baldwin’s gun and she cleaned it and then Hannah pulled another round from the dummy box, shook it, and placed it in the chamber.
57. To the best of Hannah’s knowledge, the gun was now loaded with 6 dummy rounds.

By her own statement, the last time she saw the weapon before DH took it and gave it to AB it had six bullets in it all loaded by her. So if she didn't load the fateful bullet someone must have removed a bullet already in the gun and replaced it with a live round. And that's pretty difficult to believe.

I believe her best defense is:

1. Question where the bullet originated from since it doesn't appear from court filings that that was ever established.
2. Argue that unfair demands were put on her by the Rust production and by her superiors on the set. Also that the dual role she was given as armorer and props assistant were in conflict and prevented her from properly performing her tasks as armorer.

I think #2 in particular will be a strong argument, having seen some of the emails where she's told that she needs to spend less time on her armorer duties and that she will not be allowed additional time for training Baldwin, etc. Not to mention that she was never given the chance to inspect the gun before it was handed to Baldwin because she was busy with other responsibilities.

 

[Cool Cats]

None of which was down to her.

She told Dave Halls quite specifically that she needed to hand the gun to Baldwin and to call her back.

This was a case of other people ignoring the rules, not the armourer.

She had no business handing the gun to Halls if she had planned to not let him hand it to Alec. Why give it to him? Makes no sense.

 

[DizzyB]

Doesn’t “cold gun” mean that there is nothing in the gun? No blanks, no dummies, certainly no live rounds? Did HGR, and Halls, both believe that the gun was empty? Baldwin should not have been rehearsing with a gun that contained anything. That’s what it should have been checked for.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I would like to read about that...appreciate the links, thanks.

62. Hannah brought the gun to AD Halls inside the Church. Hannah spun the cylinder forHalls and showed him the 6 loaded dummy rounds. Baldwin was not inside the Church.

63. Halls then took custody of the weapon and was inside the Church sitting in a pew. There were multiple people inside the Church.

65. Halls said to Hannah that he would just be “sitting in” with the gun, meaning the gun wasn’t going to be used at all since this wasn’t a scene or rehearsal. Hannah told Halls to let her know if Baldwin came back so that she could come back inside the Church and re-inspect the weapon and provide it to Baldwin herself as she had done every time before on set. Her point was that if plans were to change for use of the gun to be more than just “sitting in” status, Hannah needed to be called back into the Church.

https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Gutierrez-Reed-Complaint_Redacted-2_Redacted-USE.pdf

 

[Marantz4250b]

By her own statement, the last time she saw the weapon before DH took it and gave it to AB it had six bullets in it all loaded by her. So if she didn't load the fateful bullet someone must have removed a bullet already in the gun and replaced it with a live round. And that's pretty difficult to believe.

Exactly - the last time she saw the weapon...

The whole point of the protocol for handing it to the actor after checking it in front of them is that you know, absolutely and categorically, what is in it, if anything.

The entire reason for her demanding to be called back before handing it off to AB was to make sure that it hadn't been messed with and to check her own work. That is why you always check a gun when handing it to another person. She was actually insisting that the protocol was followed to the letter.

It is not difficult at all for me to believe that someone might mess about with a gun in the space of 15 minutes. Firearms are things that people tend to mess about with, especially men. DH was no stranger to firearms so wouldn't likely be a person who was scared to play with them.

It may not be likely, on the balance of probability, that the ammo was switched in the church but it is far from impossible and certainly not unreasonable.

 

[Marantz4250b]

She had no business handing the gun to Halls if she had planned to not let him hand it to Alec. Why give it to him? Makes no sense.

I don't know but that really isn't the point.

Maybe it's as simple as the secure safe being away from where it needed to be, her having other things to do and it would save time retrieving the gun later? It's perfectly acceptable behavior had DH have done what he was told to do. Also AB knows fine well that he only takes a gun from the armourer.

That's the way it happened, though, and she gave explicit instructions as to what DH was to do.

She followed the rules - the other two muppets didn't!

 

[Marantz4250b]

Doesn’t “cold gun” mean that there is nothing in the gun? No blanks, no dummies, certainly no live rounds? Did HGR, and Halls, both believe that the gun was empty? Baldwin should not have been rehearsing with a gun that contained anything. That’s what it should have been checked for.

Exactly!

Shouting "cold gun" is terrible procedure. It's terrible because it seems to have wildly varying meanings; on this thread and reading other sites it appears that it could mean empty gun or, gun loaded with blanks or, not a real gun or, gun loaded with dummies. Essentially, it could relate to anything other than live ammunition. That's ripe for confusion.

I'm a range conducting officer. It's a popular misconception that the term "cease fire" is used in the case of an urgent need to stop shooting. It's not because anything with the word "fire" in it can mean you are clear to fire or continue firing. The emergency stop procedure is "STOP STOP STOP". That is unambiguous and so should things like amouncing the state of a gun on a movie set.

Personally, I suspect that the term "cold gun" has taken hold most probably because it sounds kinda cool. It doesn't really convey a definite message though in the absence of an industry wide standard given to it. Even if it were then I'd still probably object as it's too vague. Why not just say "gun with dummy rounds" or "gun with blanks" or "empty gun"? Speaking personally, and as someone who has a reasonable level of firearms knowledge, in the case of the first then I'd want to personally check that ammo. I've said previously that putting dummy rounds in firearms is probably one of the most risky things you can do because they look identical to live ones. Dummy rounds make me nervous!