No Flames - Innocent until proven guilty

[SeriouslySearching]

We now have to wait around a year for a trial though! don't we? or is 2 years more realistic?

This will depend on the Defense Attorney. They would probably want to speed it up since the body hasn't been found yet. I could be wrong, but why drag it out in the chance it could turn up later when their case has to be she is possibly alive?

 

[justbeachy]

Do you really think she could get a fair trial here in Orlando? I personally dont. Not even in Seminole or Osceola.... Volusia and Flagler perhaps.

I think she probably could get a fair trial in Orlando....they'd have to work their butts off to find jurors, but I think it could be done. I've actually been shocked at people here who have little to no knowledge of the case. I'm in Seminole County (Oviedo) but for all practical purposes that is Orlando. And the people I know who don't know anything about the case are well-to-do, high income people - professionals - they simply don't follow the case. When I went to search for Caylee, I had to explain to people who I was searching for!!

But, having said all that, I think it would be in everyone's best interest to move the trial. Emotions are running deep around here in regards to this case and I think it would be best for everyone if it was somewhere else. Plus, I wouldn't want there to be any reason for CA to be able to file an appeal based on that. Look at me...already talking about her appeal. I'm getting a bit ahead of myself!

 

[gardenhart]

I might concede that Casey has been tried and convicted by the media. BUT, the media has no sentencing power; The media did not make the arrest, nor create what was real and was really presented to the Grand Jury.

I firmly believe that once inside the Court, people take their sworn duty as jurors very seriously. People have an inate desire to see justice and fairness prevail. They want this for victims but also for defendants.
That is my belief.
Casey can get a fair trial no matter what the media says or does.
Let's reverse it:
The media could start a Casey is railroaded.... Casey is innocent blitz. That would not affect the trial either. jmho

Excellent point. And don't forget the media isn't just covering what LE have to say right now. Cindy, JB are all getting plenty of coverage.

I know jurors take their job very seriously, especially in a serious charge and very especially when a death penalty is possible. I've talked to many jurors after the trial in such cases and they have all told me about how they agonized over these decisions, going over and over the evidence and testimony and even the judge's instructions and the specifics of the charges.

 

[justbeachy]

I've been trying to say this since the beginning. I personally believe Caylee is alive and that there are "stories within the stories."

I'm curious about your reasoning on this. I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs...they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. I do like to see other people's perspectives, though, and I'm really wondering about your rationalization that Caylee is alive.

Again, not challenging....I'm honestly interested to hear your perspective. Maybe I'm missing something in my perception of the "facts" so to speak.

(I can see this going off topic, so this may end up needing to be moved.)

 

[MiraclesHappen]

This will depend on the Defense Attorney. They would probably want to speed it up since the body hasn't been found yet. I could be wrong, but why drag it out in the chance it could turn up later when their case has to be she is possibly alive?

Soooo true.

The Ditrict Attorney's office is bound by speedy trial rules. However, the defendant always has the option of waiving their rights to a speedy trial and asking for further time. That ball will be in Baez's court.

 

[jeannebreault]

This case is mostly local. Except NG and Cindy showing up, nationally, hardly a peep. Greta usually covers these things, extensively....Scott Peterson being a good example.

KC will get a fair trial.

I think Greta got pre-empted by politics!:crazy:

 

[miimaa]

I've been trying to say this since the beginning. I personally believe Caylee is alive and that there are "stories within the stories."

Could you expound on what makes you believe this?

I think what's being leaked is being leaked deliberately and one day the media will see they allowed themselves to be used - which is fine with me if it brings a measure of safety to Caylee, if you get my drift!

The media used by WHO? And, no I am not getting your drift - a 'measure of safety to Caylee' in what way?

Throughout all this, though, we have to remember that we have due process and a constitutional right to be "presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." It's what JB was talking about yesterday when he said there are American soldiers in IRAQ fighting for this. That upset people, but if we lose our constitutional rights we become a land of outlaws.

I disagree. Casey is presumed innocent in a COURT OF LAW at this time. That does not equal her being 'factually' innocent. She either committed a crime or she did not. She may be factually guilty but if that is not proven in court she will be a free woman. She even may be factually innocent and if proven otherwise in court she will not be a free woman. So the presumption of innocense does NOT mean she actually IS innocent of committing a crime - it only means it has not been proven judicially.

She has not been tried and convicted in the COURT but yes, she has by public opinion. There is nothing wrong with public opinion. I believe our court system is safe and sound and JB was blowing smoke with his comment yesterday. I do not see that KC is in any danger of being denied due process.

 

[BeanE]

Is it possible that CA in a sick sort of way wants KC convicted?

She has done everything to APPEAR to be helping KC, when what she was doing was turning everyone against her. By her upholding that lie story, she made the story less credible than it might have been. If she had told KC to tell the truth in the beginning, KC might could have pled this down to a few years.

Maybe CA subconsciously wants KC in jail for life or a death sentence.

This topic is *well* worth a thread all on its own!

 

[Charge Them All]

Yes, she is innocent in legal terms. In public opinion she is guilty. The only one that matters to her is the first, it dosen't matter what anyone of us thinks, we are not on the jury. She will get a more than fair trial.

 

[want2help]

I wish we had a court system like over in Germany. You are guilty until proven innocent! They don't need search warrants, if they have reason to believe your hiding anything, they can just come on in. Just think how much could have been saved on this case?

Oh, wow. I could say so many things here, but I will not.....

If our country were like that, I would move. Search warrants DO serve a purpose. Would you want the law to break into your home because you were wearing a T-Shirt which had, oh I dunno, say a reggae band logo and you have dreadlocked hair? I mean, those things are frequently associated with pot smoking. They are not probable cause....

I'll gladly fork out my hard earned tax dollars to support my country's judicial system. There are definite kinks, but we can try and change it through elections and knowledge. Or, God forbid, through the right to bear arms, if our government all of a sudden started trampling on our rights...such as "guilty until proven innocent".

You are only innocent until proven guilty in a court. Public, eye? Totally different story. I think they will move the venue. Doesnt matter. Beotch will fry. even if they had to move it to Mars.

 

[YellowDog]

Good question, really. If she has a lawyer who is good at voir dire, one who can catch out those who carry a bias against, and if a jury pool could hold at least a couple of young single mothers so that there is some reasonable "peer balance", then I think she could get a fair trial. Possibly not in Orlando, that might be harder to manage, but even in Orlando, high feelings will settle down -- it's likely going to be months before trial.

Just as a related aside, from a personal standpoint it rather appalls me to see the absolute glee with which some condemn her. Just don't think it's the kind of case where those feelings apply, and such emotionalism IMO precludes the ability to rationally evaluate evidence ... which is why one would hope she has a lawyer who is good at voir dire.

I couldn't agree more I also find it apalling the way so many on here get pleasure out of condemning the rest of the family members.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

I believe the trial will be fair regardless of where they hold it. Jurors come from so many different walks of life and each one has their own strengths and weaknesses.

I am a crime junkie and being so it has led me to a CSI career--now most people love the CSI show and others like it and take it as being the "word" on the investigative process which couldn't be farther from the truth.

My calling is based on my wanting to know the truth. We all have feelings and while the way we feel can never be right or wrong our reasons for having those feelings can be.

The Grand jury yesterday is what I'm trying to get at---Those people looked at the facts of the case,not the feelings or beliefs but the facts.

And those facts led to the conclusion that Caylee is dead--Casey may be innocent until proven guilty but it doesn't change the fact that the baby is no longer living

What happened yesterday tells me that any jury hearing the facts of a case will come to the correct decision based on what they can prove.

I have seen trials where I just knew that the person was guilty but the jury set them free and I would think to myself "Good Lord what a bunch of idiots" but further down the line when the jury was interviewed in regards to their finding I found myself thinking "they were right" based on what they were given to work with they made the right decision.

Sorry for the book--but I think the greatest percentage of people want to do the right thing while jurors feel it is their responsiblity and that they need to do the right thing

 

[Lanie]

I wish we had a court system like over in Germany. You are guilty until proven innocent! They don't need search warrants, if they have reason to believe your hiding anything, they can just come on in. Just think how much could have been saved on this case?

Yeah, you can wish that all you want, but I wonder what you would wish for if YOU were suspected of something.
Lanie

 

[YellowDog]

Could you expound on what makes you believe this?



The media used by WHO? And, no I am not getting your drift - a 'measure of safety to Caylee' in what way?



I disagree. Casey is presumed innocent in a COURT OF LAW at this time. That does not equal her being 'factually' innocent. She either committed a crime or she did not. She may be factually guilty but if that is not proven in court she will be a free woman. She even may be factually innocent and if proven otherwise in court she will not be a free woman. So the presumption of innocense does NOT mean she actually IS innocent of committing a crime - it only means it has not been proven judicially.

She has not been tried and convicted in the COURT but yes, she has by public opinion. There is nothing wrong with public opinion. I believe our court system is safe and sound and JB was blowing smoke with his comment yesterday. I do not see that KC is in any danger of being denied due process.

According to the definition of the word "presume", I would certainly view it differently.

presume ( ) v. , -sumed , -suming , -sumes . v.tr. To take for granted as being true in the absence of proof to the contrary

 

[Sassynic]

While I hate to be the one to say it - we all have to realize that our judicial system is set up as KC is innocent until the prosecutors prove without a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of killing Caylee. Yes, I know emotions are running high - especially after the judgement that came down from the Grand Jury - but folks she is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Do I personally believe she can have a fair trial here in Orlando - nope, absolutely not. They will have to probably move the case to one of our smaller, rural counties to get an impartial jury. Do I personally think that she is guilty of someway causing harm to her daughter and causing her death - yes - but in a court of law she is innocent. Even though in the eyes of the public she is guilty - we all have to understand what makes our country great. Having a fair and even judicial system.

Any thoughts? Do you think she can get a fair trial?

This case has garnered national attention. Even moving it to a smaller county elsewhere will not find a whole jury pool who have never heard of her. They would have to move it to Europe and we all know that's not gonna happen.

Even the recent OJ case had a whole jury pool who had heard and had opinions on his murder trial years earlier.

With the advent of the net it's getting more and more difficult to find people who haven't heard of some stories.

 

[Mendara]

No! I do not believe she will have a fair trail. I agree with the statement Baez made, she has been tried and found guilty in the eyes of the public/media.

There are peopel I speak to everyday who do not even know about this story - they could care less about KC. They have no idea about the case. No one has tried her, but she did a pretty good job on herself.

 

[babycat]

I wish we had a court system like over in Germany. You are guilty until proven innocent! They don't need search warrants, if they have reason to believe your hiding anything, they can just come on in. Just think how much could have been saved on this case?

Are you being serious?

I'm not being coy, I really can't tell....

I hope not, though. You NEVER know when you're going to be on the "wrong" end of the law, if that's the case. I don't trust a handful of people in power to decide my guilt or innocence BEFORE I've had the chance to present my side of things. People are wrongly convicted, even with the system we have now. Absolute power corrupts, and taking away your miranda rights can leave room for all sorts of corrupt action on the prosecuting side (police, etc) if they personally happen to believe you're guilty. It happens way more often than one might think.

Just sayin' Though, we're all entitled to our own opinons

 

[Sassynic]

I wish we had a court system like over in Germany. You are guilty until proven innocent! They don't need search warrants, if they have reason to believe your hiding anything, they can just come on in. Just think how much could have been saved on this case?

Yeah then most of us would have our houses, cars, and workplaces searched anytime an enemy or spiteful family member wanted to cause trouble. Not a system I would want to be a part of. :bang:

 

[Sassynic]

one of the questions to filter jurors will probably be;

'do you uh, read that website websleuths by any chance?' lol.

:crazy:

I live in Kissimmee and if they moved it to my county I wouldn't miss much work the day they call me as a potential juror! My answer would be, "Yes I love WS and yes I am VERY biased in this case since I've been following it since the beginning and the girl is as guilty as ever."

There...all done...now to get back to work. Oh look, I was only gone for 10 mins! :crazy:

 

[gardenhart]

I've been trying to say this since the beginning. I personally believe Caylee is alive and that there are "stories within the stories." I think what's being leaked is being leaked deliberately and one day the media will see they allowed themselves to be used - which is fine with me if it brings a measure of safety to Caylee, if you get my drift!

I am curious about what's happened to investigative journalism? In my opinion, one of the print or broadcast media could really enhance their stature by getting their best IJ on this and using their connections to find the root story - the real story. Things are not always as they appear. If I'm wrong, so what?! All they'll have lost is another "me, too" story!

I look at the people who have already convicted Casey as black and white people - not a racial comment! I'm talking about people who make quick decisions and like to get things tidied up and move along to the next one. Life isn't black and white - life is messy. There are very few absolutes. There are lots of different kinds of people in the world...as hard as it is to believe, there are lots of people who don't know or care about this case! That's good - "it takes every kind of people to make the world go 'round."

Throughout all this, though, we have to remember that we have due process and a constitutional right to be "presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law." It's what JB was talking about yesterday when he said there are American soldiers in IRAQ fighting for this. That upset people, but if we lose our constitutional rights we become a land of outlaws.

Great post - thanks for asking!

I know this is going to be considered heresy. Give me a second while I put my 4 quart cookpot on my head.

Someone early on (NG show perhaps?) made the comment that there was a grain of truth in every lie Casey said. I think that's bunk in that you can't follow the bits a pieces of reality that she weaves in to make her lies more believable as being something that will lead you to the truth.

How many rabbit holes have people run into looking for the bit of truth in Casey's lies? Like scouring Blanchard Park or the area around the Sawmill Apartments? Like her lies are a puzzle or a code that can be delved for the truth.

There is no truth in Casey's lies.