No intruder?

[Holdontoyourhat]

I do acknowledge that it’s a good thing that the course of the investigation, the DNA, and all the evidence is out of the hands of a friend of the Ramseys.

Callous response. C'mon, you know its a good thing when they find DNA at a crime scene. Acknowledge it!

Suicidal ideation.

If I had to bet my life on it, I would choose ML's view. It hasn't yet been countered by the new DA. I haven't read anything from BPD or the new DA that actually reverses the exhoneration. It seems you've only imagined it.

 

[cynic]

It hasn't yet been countered by the new DA. I haven't read anything from BPD or the new DA that actually reverses the exhoneration. It seems you've only imagined it.

If you really believe that the exoneration stands, you haven't bothered to listen to Stan Garnett. I realize that the mainstream media, your exclusive source of information, is oblivious to it because it wasn't spoon fed to them, but everyone on this forum who has taken the time to listen to the KHOW radio interview knows that the exoneration is over. Your denial is quite telling, though.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If you really believe that the exoneration stands, you haven't bothered to listen to Stan Garnett. I realize that the mainstream media, your exclusive source of information, is oblivious to it because it wasn't spoon fed to them, but everyone on this forum who has taken the time to listen to the KHOW radio interview knows that the exoneration is over. Your denial is quite telling, though.

There would be quotes pasted all over this forum. Nice try though.

 

[kcabnroh]

Im new to this so don't mind my interuption but I would like to give you my answer/opinions to your questions you asked before:


Q: How did JBR move from her bed to the basement?

The person who killed her took her down from the second floor to the basement. This is proven by the green garland, which was on the railing on the Ramsey's spiral steps where the ransom note was found, which was found in JonBenet's hair.

Q: Was she ever in her bed?

The Ramsey's were known to be clean people. They had the beds made and JonBenets sheets took off almost every morning (due to her bed wetting) after she woke up. In the crime scene photo's, her bed obviously looked like it was slept in because the sheets were pulled back and ruffled. Unless somone messed it up, which is very unlikely.

Q: What exactly happened in the basement?

JonBenet was taken into the basement. The blow to the head either occured before or in the basement. She was killed outside the wine cellar door most likely because they found pee stains right there, which happened most likely when she was strangled.

Q: What happened between 11 PM and 5 AM?

Regardless of whatever actually happened between these times ( I'm not sure if we'll ever know :/ ) somone killed JonBenet

Q: When was the ransom note written?

The RN had to be written after death. If JonBenet was killed by a supposed "kiddnapper" accidentally, would they have actually left the note there to leave more incriminating evidence?

Q: Who wrote it?

The only person who still has not been officially ruled out is Patsy....

Q: Did they want money?

If they actually wanted money they would have asked for a larger amount. If you are holding somone's kid hostage, possibly going to be caught, why not go big? 118,000 is nothing compared to what they could have asked for. Kiddnapping for ransom can be very greedy.

Q: Did they want sexual gratification?

No semen found at the crime scene so I don't believe so.

Q: Who owns the DNA?

It's very possible that the DNA could have been degraded. The killer wiped JonBenet before leaving, which might have compleatly degraded the evidence. But if you think about it, why would the killers blood be in JBR's underwear? Why did he/she bleed when there was not one sign of a struggle?

Q: Who owns the cord?

Answer with question below:

Q: Who owns the tape?

There are credit card transactions from the Ramsey's in early December that showed one of them went to two hardwear stores, one in Atlanta and one in Boulder. The store in Boulder had both cord and tape that matched (or if you might say very similar because we've never actually compared them, but from police records it said they were very alike) the same types that were used in the murder. Coincidence? Somone very well could have left the house in the middle of the night to despose of it somewhere. Did they ever search the Ramseys cars & trunks? The surrounding area?


Q: Who owns the object that struck JBR in the head?

If the flashlight theory is correct, then the Ramseys.


Q: Where is the missing piece?

I think you are talking about missing piece to paintbrush? Most likely out the other evidence.





Everyone can believe what they like, I'm not saying I am correct. It's a great thing to debate because I suppose we might never know. I just wish the Boulder Police and DA's office could have gotten their act together and worked as a team instead of hiding things and making the case more difficult to solve. It's a shame that they ruined a case and possibly let a killer go for good, JonBenet deseved better.

 

[cynic]

There would be quotes pasted all over this forum. Nice try though.

There is not a single dissenting post on the thread about the interview.
The Ramseys have been un-exonerated, plain and simple.
This is part of Roy23’s reaction to the post. We have had our differences but at least he’s not living in denial.
I think this should make RDI happy on a few things. One being that Mary Lacey's exoneration is premature in the eyes of the people in charge now.
…
I feel like I am fair but even I will admit that I am more curious than ever now to see all of the evidence. Garnett's mentions of Lacey's incompetence seems sincere in that he disagrees with her decisions. For me, I just want to know who the killer is. I am not sure that a conviction will be easy whether intruder or not so it is important that LE start over and investigate without thinking of all prior boo boos. And if that means putting the Ramsey's under an umbrella of suspicion again, I am all for it.
-Roy23

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There is not a single dissenting post on the thread about the interview.
The Ramseys have been un-exonerated, plain and simple.
This is part of Roy23’s reaction to the post. We have had our differences but at least he’s not living in denial.
I think this should make RDI happy on a few things. One being that Mary Lacey's exoneration is premature in the eyes of the people in charge now.
…
I feel like I am fair but even I will admit that I am more curious than ever now to see all of the evidence. Garnett's mentions of Lacey's incompetence seems sincere in that he disagrees with her decisions. For me, I just want to know who the killer is. I am not sure that a conviction will be easy whether intruder or not so it is important that LE start over and investigate without thinking of all prior boo boos. And if that means putting the Ramsey's under an umbrella of suspicion again, I am all for it.
-Roy23

You're going to have to do better than that.

 

[BBB167893]

Callous response. C'mon, you know its a good thing when they find DNA at a crime scene. Acknowledge it!

I can't acknowledge it, because it's not always true, HOTYH. That's precisely what the criminologist on O'Reilly's show warned us about: that too much emphasis on one thing at the expense of building a whole case can be detrimental and that the more sensitive DNA testing methods get, the more careful LE will have to be, because the more likely they are to come with artifacts.

 

[Toltec]

To those who believe there was without question no intruder, I have some questions:

1. Where is the rest of the cord?
2. Where is the rest of the tape?
   
   Either it was used up or left the home inside Patsy Ramsey's boots.
   
   
3. What hit JBR in the head?
   
   John Ramsey's flashlight...the one wiped down. It was his flashlight because Police could not find another one like it in the drawer where he usually kept it.
   
   
4. Why was the paintbrush broken at both ends?
   
   To fashion a "garrote".
   
   
5. Why was the ransom note reported to have been found on the back staircase steps?
   
   Patsy's mistake...she forgot that is where she usually places things.
   
   
6. How did an unknown male deposit his DNA inside JBR's underpants?
7. How did the same unknown male deposit his skin cells on JBR's legging waistband? (credit this discovery to Mary Lacy)
   
   JonBenet's dirty nails...not bathing, not washing her hands.
   
   
8. Why did BPD fail to link JR to ?
9. Why did BPD fail to link PR to the ransom note?
10. Why did BPD fail to link PR or JR to abuse?
11. Why did BPD fail to link PR or JR to crime scene DNA?
    
    Because there was no involved, no child abuse, and I disagree with the rn linked to Patsy Ramsey...remember John Ramsey's words?
    
    
12. Why did the DA's hired detective believe an intruder did it?
    
    Because he prayed about it.
    
    
13. Why did the FBI say that JBR had no signs of abuse?
    
    Source?
14. Why did JBR's own pediatrician say JBR had no signs of abuse?
    
    Because he did not look for it.
    
    
15. Why have three DA's not prosecuted?
    
    Haddon, Morgan.
    
    
16. Why did the Grand Jury not indict?
    
    don't know.
    
    
17. Why did the US Secret Service state that PR didn't write the note?
    
    don't know.
    
18. What does SBTC stand for?
    
    Son of a B@@ch Tom Carson.
    
19. What does Victory! mean?
    
    Ask John.
20. What was the motive?
    
    No motive...an accident turned into a kidnapping/murder/sexual assault.
    
    
21. Why is mainstream media reporting intruder?
    
    Avoiding lawsuits.
    
    
22. Why threaten to behead a six year old?
    
    Patsy and Johns assumption that a small foreign faction would do something like that.
    
23. Isn't that just a little overboard?
    
    Tell that to Patsy...she always went overboard on everything she did.
    
    

Please feel free to answer "I dont know."

That woman killed her child, period, end of story.

 

[SunnieRN]

New questions

Why, when Burke was asked and actually answered questions, did his series of events NOT support his parents 'story'?

Why did Jon Benet have pineapple in her digestive tract, as it had to have been eaten within a short time of her death?

How many items could have been used to hit JB on the head? Flashlight, bat found outside, fireplace tool?

 

[DeeDee249]

New questions

Why, when Burke was asked and actually answered questions, did his series of events NOT support his parents 'story'?

Why did Jon Benet have pineapple in her digestive tract, as it had to have been eaten within a short time of her death?

How many items could have been used to hit JB on the head? Flashlight, bat found outside, fireplace tool?

BR made some statements that conflicted with his parents' versions: he said his sister walked into the house carrying presents. His parents said she was asleep and was carried in. BR said he owned a pair of Hi-Tec shoes. His parents said he did not.
JB had the pineapple in her system because she DID eat it that night, probably right after she got home around 10 pm. The TOD (according to her stage of rigor mortis) was estimated to be approx. 12 midnight-1 am. That places the pineapple exactly where it should be if it were eaten 2 hours before death.
There are three items that are among the main possibilities to have been used to bludgeon JB. The flashlight is #1 on my list, because of the suspicious way it was wiped down (the batteries were taken out and wiped clean). But there was also a bat and any number of golf clubs that could have been used. A fireplace tool is shown on the floor of the WC in some photos. It is a log grabber, specifically. I don't know if any of these items were ever tested for traces of JB's hair or skin cells, or if any of these other than the flashlight were tested for prints.

 

[SunnieRN]

Thank you DeeDee, I could have happily written your response, with one small change. My understanding was that hair from JB WAS found on the bat outside, even after the snowfall. I believe the flashlight being wiped down was a red herring. This would draw attention away from the actual object used. Wonder if the bat was ever checked for finger prints, as all the R's denied it's existence.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thank you DeeDee, I could have happily written your response, with one small change. My understanding was that hair from JB WAS found on the bat outside, even after the snowfall. I believe the flashlight being wiped down was a red herring. This would draw attention away from the actual object used. Wonder if the bat was ever checked for finger prints, as all the R's denied it's existence.

Yes, I seem to recall that hair. Interesting, that bat was a softball bat, and Patsy played softball with a women's softball team, though in interviews she denied knowing anything about softball.

Even if the flashlight was not also the murder weapon, I believe it was used to walk around the dark house (remember the sun room light was turned OFF, according to neighbors, for the first time they had ever seen). Also, a neighbor reported "strange moving lights" in the kitchen around midnight- this corresponds exactly with the estimated TOD and the location where the flashlight ended up. Using it to walk around after the crime would be reason enough to wipe it down.

 

[Toltec]

Yes, I seem to recall that hair. Interesting, that bat was a softball bat, and Patsy played softball with a women's softball team, though in interviews she denied knowing anything about softball.

She played on a softball team "Moms Gone Bad".

Even if the flashlight was not also the murder weapon, I believe it was used to walk around the dark house (remember the sun room light was turned OFF, according to neighbors, for the first time they had ever seen). Also, a neighbor reported "strange moving lights" in the kitchen around midnight- this corresponds exactly with the estimated TOD and the location where the flashlight ended up. Using it to walk around after the crime would be reason enough to wipe it down.

I agree 110%...Patsy was asked what John's flashlight was used for and she replied that John takes it with him to inspect his airplane and also to look around the garage.

John went to the Airport Christmas day and I believe he took the flashlight with him. When he got home, he placed it on the kitchen counter.

I believe the flashlight is the murder weapon...the close proximity to the kitchen where JonBenet ate pineapple.

The flashlight was used to walk around the home that night and also to light the phone area where Patsy wrote the note.

 

[MurriFlower]

I agree 110%...Patsy was asked what John's flashlight was used for and she replied that John takes it with him to inspect his airplane and also to look around the garage.

John went to the Airport Christmas day and I believe he took the flashlight with him. When he got home, he placed it on the kitchen counter.

I believe the flashlight is the murder weapon...the close proximity to the kitchen where JonBenet ate pineapple.

The flashlight was used to walk around the home that night and also to light the phone area where Patsy wrote the note.

Toltec, why would they use a flashlight to walk around in their own home, rather than turn on the lights?

Was there any evidence (skin/blood/hair/dna) found on the flashlight to indicate that it had been used to bash JBR?

 

[DeeDee249]

Toltec, why would they use a flashlight to walk around in their own home, rather than turn on the lights?

Was there any evidence (skin/blood/hair/dna) found on the flashlight to indicate that it had been used to bash JBR?

Because they didn't want to be seen walking around the house. They had turned off lights that were usually on. according to neighbors. It wasn't really THAT late, either, plenty of people might still be awake and up and around. I routinely go t bed around 1 am. (it's all your fault, people.)

 

[MurriFlower]

Because they didn't want to be seen walking around the house. They had turned off lights that were usually on. according to neighbors. It wasn't really THAT late, either, plenty of people might still be awake and up and around. I routinely go t bed around 1 am. (it's all your fault, people.)

Nah, why wouldn't they want to be seen walking around in their own house?

More suspicious for them to use a flashlight.

Now if it was an IDI that makes more sense.

 

[BBB167893]

Because they didn't want to be seen walking around the house. They had turned off lights that were usually on. according to neighbors. It wasn't really THAT late, either, plenty of people might still be awake and up and around. I routinely go t bed around 1 am. (it's all your fault, people.)

I was just going to say that, DD!

 

[BBB167893]

Nah, why wouldn't they want to be seen walking around in their own house?

It's a little different when you have a dead body on your hands, Murri.

 

[kcabnroh]

I want to believe it was the flashlight, but with the flashlight comes a number of questions that I have:

1. If the flashlight was used, why? They usually kept it downstairs. If it was an accident, what would have even caused the flashlight to be in the scene?

2. The green garland found in JBRs hair gives me the belief that she was already knocked out and then brought down the stairs. Why would the flashlight have been brought upstairs by the parents when they could turn the lights on and off as they wished because the crime had not been committed yet.

I keep going between IDI and RDI. In my heart I feel like the Ramseys did do it, but it's hard because if you look at the evidence one way, and intruder did it, any other way you look at it, it looks like the Ramseys did it and are covering it up.

I would like to know what you guys think about the location of the flashlight and why it would be brought upstairs by the parents (if it is the head blow weapon).

 

[joeskidbeck]

Nah, why wouldn't they want to be seen walking around in their own house?

More suspicious for them to use a flashlight.

Now if it was an IDI that makes more sense.

According to the Ramseys they were all in bed and asleep by ten pm. Now, why would lights be on in the house and don't you think it may have occurred to them that their neighbors might remember lights being on after midnight? If RDI, lights had to be out, period. Yes, they would need a flashlight to maneuver that house as well as find the items they used in the staging. Also, lights being out doesn't point any more toward intruder than Ramsey. Remember, intruder brought everything he needed with him, except of course, a flashlight (silly intruder had to use the Ramseys).