Norway Norway - Oslo - WhtFem 20-30 - Fake Name - Shot in Hotel Room - Jun'95 #2

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

the whole norweigan law on DNA not being allowed is so annoying

Three cold cases are currently heating up in Norway using investigative genetic genealogy; in two of the cases, the suspected perp has been identified. Also see my post on page three to why it might take a while for JF to be identified using IGG.

https://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(24)00213-8/fulltext

 

[Marantz4250b]

I've bought a Browning GP35 outside of the UK and will have access to it around the 9th May (if the stars align and I can get 5 mins to myself!) so if anyone wants any specific pictures or info about these guns I should be able to sort it.

 

[shadowdancer]

Today is exactly 30 years since the day Jennifer arrived at the Oslo Plaza. Can’t believe that we still have no answers.

 

[shadowdancer]

It is currently 22:44 in Oslo, Norway. Exactly 30 years ago to the minute, Jennifer checked into the Oslo Plaza.

I wish I could dive back through time to that moment and find out what happened at that check in. Why did Jennifer get to check in without showing her passport or giving her credit card details? Was Lois with her?

I would ask her if she was ok and if she needed help.

I hope she is identified soon. She would only be in her mid fifties today if she was alive. There has to be people still around who knew her.

 

[RookieWebsleuth2024]

I agree with you. Besides, there was blood everywhere. Even the buttons of her clothes were drenched in blood but not her hands.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I agree with you. Besides, there was blood everywhere. Even the buttons of her clothes were drenched in blood but not her hands.

Can you provide a link to a report stating this?

I'm not aware of any credible report mentioning so much blood and it being "everywhere".

 

[CrossNokind]

I read so many articles and watch videos about this case and read this forum from the beginning. I would like to add my two cents to this case.

First of all, I am German and grew up in Germany (West Germany) during late 90's. I took a hard look at Jennifer handwriting of the registration card.

She definitely wrote 148 Rue de la Station ( and not Stehde). Furthermore, we (Germans) usually write street name first but we were taught in school (British English) when writing our address in foreign countries to use number first.

I searched on google map and this address comes up if you input the street name and number:
Rue de la Station 148, 7700 Mouscron, Belgium & Rue de la Station 148, 1200 Woluwe-Saint-Pierre, Belgium. Neither are in Verlaine.

Jennifer supposed to work for a company called Cerbis according to the registration card but that doesn't exist and is not handwritten by her. I feel like the receptionist just wrote what she thought Jennifer said.

There is an air defense system name Cerebus which are made by the Belgium Government to protect from incoming drones, etc.

If the BL country code stands for ( Belgium - Luxembourg) then there is also a street name with that number

148 rue de la station, 1721 dommeldange luxembourg and company called Cerebus Capital management Cerberus Capital Luxembourg S.à r.l.. There is also a zip code 7568 in Mersh, Luxembourg.

In conclusion, I really think she lied about where she lives. That street name and number is very common in Belgium and Luxembourg. She mixed some Belgium & Luxembourg street name & number and Luxembourg zip code in there with wrong Belgium city lol. Jennifer was trolling with the BL country code if it really stand for Belgium & Luxembourg because her address is made up by locations from those two countries.

I think Jennifer might not be from Germany but from Luxembourg since they also speak German. It was said she spoke an East German accent that could also be confused for someone speaking German and living in Luxembourg. Or she is from East German and knows Belgium and Luxembourg area very well.

If you look at her watch and gun, which are used in military/police agencies, I think she most likely was a spy. Why would a high end escort bother with concealing the gun's serial number and her address?!

The hotel she stayed at held very important meetings with high officials from different countries to discuss several major world issues including the Israeli/Palestine conflict.

The German Democratic Republic (GDR) was heavily involved with the Israeli/Plestine conflict and opposed the Israeli regime. Jennifer might have attended those meetings with high level officials discussing that conflict or was there to gather intelligence about these meetings.

At the end, I think Jennifer got taking out by that neighbor Mr F who stayed across her door. He basically slipped up when he told a reporter that staff told him Jennifer was dead and ask him questions about it. However, he left a day before she was found dead and he should not have known that.

Was Mister F a Mossad agent or a guy she had sex with or he tried to force himself on her and she refused?

 

[Marantz4250b]

It's 100% certain that she lied about her address - it simply doesn't exist.

With respect, arriving at the conclusion that she was a spy due to her watch and gun is too much of a stretch, imo. The gun is extremely common, and was especially so in that period, it was used by police and security agencies all over the world. It was the standard sidearm of the UK military for decades as well as others. Saddam Hussain carried one. Eddie Murphy used one in Beverly Hills Cop - including the recent sequel (which was excellent, btw) and it's been used in countless other movies. The fact that it was a "bitsa" says a lot, imo; the slide was marked Browning Canada, the barrel had the chambering marked as 9x19 (which to me sounds like it was one which was "liberated" from a military somewhere rather than being a commercially available one) and the receiver was made by FEG in Hungary.

All that suggests much more strongly to me that it was a black-market criminal gun assembled from random parts. The serial number being erased from the receiver is a big giveaway, imo. Europe was (and still is) awash with illegal firearms; Scandinavia has had problems for decades with criminal and biker gangs massacring each other. Let's not forget that the Prime Minister of Sweden was shot dead in the street by someone who has still never been identified using a .357 Magnum revolver, the whereabouts and origin of which are still unidentified despite the police testing every single registered .357 in the country!

Spies don't wander around routinely armed. I mean, if they did then in 90% of the word you'd be in huge danger of being outed if you ever got picked up carrying a gun.

Similarly with the watch, how can anyone say that "spies" all wear similar watches and if you wear one you're likely a spy? By that rationale anyone wearing a G-Shock is a possible Islamic terrorist.

The fact that a few weeks either side of this there were diplomatic meetings happening is a complete irrelevance. This was likely the number 1, top tier hotel in Oslo, if not the whole country. High level political meetings rarely take place in a Motel 6 so it is entirely reasonable that this hotel would host these people. It's a total red herring to suggest that this had anything to do with it.

The truth of her death will be far more mundane; the most likely result, imo, will be that she was a down on her luck young woman, perhaps let down by a lover, maybe dealing with depression or some other mental health issue who simply saw no future for herself. Yes, I get that it is highly unusual for a young woman to be wandering around Oslo with few belongings other than a meagre amount of clothing and a military grade sidearm but there is nothing to suggest there is, or was, anything along the lines of spying in her back story. Some criminal association, perhaps, but not state level espionage.

I am reasonably confident that she will be identified. We should remember that the Norwegian authorities have a full DNA profile for her, the only thing preventing them submitting it to public DNA databases is Norwegian law.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I will have access to a Browning GP-35 that I own (outside of the UK) around the 10th to the 13th of this month. If anyone wants any specific pictures of any part of it let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 

[CrossNokind]

It's 100% certain that she lied about her address - it simply doesn't exist.

With respect, arriving at the conclusion that she was a spy due to her watch and gun is too much of a stretch, imo. The gun is extremely common, and was especially so in that period, it was used by police and security agencies all over the world. It was the standard sidearm of the UK military for decades as well as others. Saddam Hussain carried one. Eddie Murphy used one in Beverly Hills Cop - including the recent sequel (which was excellent, btw) and it's been used in countless other movies. The fact that it was a "bitsa" says a lot, imo; the slide was marked Browning Canada, the barrel had the chambering marked as 9x19 (which to me sounds like it was one which was "liberated" from a military somewhere rather than being a commercially available one) and the receiver was made by FEG in Hungary.

All that suggests much more strongly to me that it was a black-market criminal gun assembled from random parts. The serial number being erased from the receiver is a big giveaway, imo. Europe was (and still is) awash with illegal firearms; Scandinavia has had problems for decades with criminal and biker gangs massacring each other. Let's not forget that the Prime Minister of Sweden was shot dead in the street by someone who has still never been identified using a .357 Magnum revolver, the whereabouts and origin of which are still unidentified despite the police testing every single registered .357 in the country!

Spies don't wander around routinely armed. I mean, if they did then in 90% of the word you'd be in huge danger of being outed if you ever got picked up carrying a gun.

Similarly with the watch, how can anyone say that "spies" all wear similar watches and if you wear one you're likely a spy? By that rationale anyone wearing a G-Shock is a possible Islamic terrorist.

The fact that a few weeks either side of this there were diplomatic meetings happening is a complete irrelevance. This was likely the number 1, top tier hotel in Oslo, if not the whole country. High level political meetings rarely take place in a Motel 6 so it is entirely reasonable that this hotel would host these people. It's a total red herring to suggest that this had anything to do with it.

The truth of her death will be far more mundane; the most likely result, imo, will be that she was a down on her luck young woman, perhaps let down by a lover, maybe dealing with depression or some other mental health issue who simply saw no future for herself. Yes, I get that it is highly unusual for a young woman to be wandering around Oslo with few belongings other than a meagre amount of clothing and a military grade sidearm but there is nothing to suggest there is, or was, anything along the lines of spying in her back story. Some criminal association, perhaps, but not state level espionage.

I am reasonably confident that she will be identified. We should remember that the Norwegian authorities have a full DNA profile for her, the only thing preventing them submitting it to public DNA databases is Norwegian law.

Most often you will not find a gun sold in black market made up of several other guns and the serial numbers removed carefully with acid. The reason why it was like this is because it wouldn't let back to specific agency who gave those spies the guns.

The Hotel staff never once said she looked depressed or unhappy. Jennifer was never once described as a woman that was down on her luck by reporters, staff and police.

Jennifer dressed very well. She had jewelries which were worth a lot plus her ring and very nice shoes. Experts also said she had extensive and expensive teeth work done.

Let's also not forget that the staff said she gave them a big tip when ordering her food. 50 kr ( 8 euro).

Of course, spies have guns with them most of the time for their own protection but depend on the mission they might not need it all the time. Like this isn't a Hollywood movie where they can defend themselves using their hands and legs.

Her death isn't mundane otherwise it would have been solved by now. If it was just a simple suicde or women who would take a her life why would she order food few hours before she was found dead. It looked like when the security guards found her that someone took a shower.


I think It will be difficult to identify who Jennifer Fergate really is unless Lois Fairgate/Fergate (if this person even exist) comes forward and let us know who she really is.

Mr F (Lois Fairgate?) is also in hiding and only 1 reporter has spoken to him. The reporter said that Mr F moved away and he can't find him now.

The only way to close this case is through DNA but you need permissions from countries and family members of Jennifer to submit their DNAs.

As someone who grew up in western part of Germany, Jennifer Fergate looks Eastern European and with families that could be in Russia/Belarus/Poland/Latvia area.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Most often you will not find a gun sold in black market made up of several other guns and the serial numbers removed carefully with acid. The reason why it was like this is because it wouldn't let back to specific agency who gave those spies the guns.

The Hotel staff never once said she looked depressed or unhappy. Jennifer was never once described as a woman that was down on her luck by reporters, staff and police.

Jennifer dressed very well. She had jewelries which were worth a lot plus her ring and very nice shoes. Experts also said she had extensive and expensive teeth work done.

Let's also not forget that the staff said she gave them a big tip when ordering her food. 50 kr ( 8 euro).

Of course, spies have guns with them most of the time for their own protection but depend on the mission they might not need it all the time. Like this isn't a Hollywood movie where they can defend themselves using their hands and legs.

Her death isn't mundane otherwise it would have been solved by now. If it was just a simple suicde or women who would take a her life why would she order food few hours before she was found dead. It looked like when the security guards found her that someone took a shower.


I think It will be difficult to identify who Jennifer Fergate really is unless Lois Fairgate/Fergate (if this person even exist) comes forward and let us know who she really is.

Mr F (Lois Fairgate?) is also in hiding and only 1 reporter has spoken to him. The reporter said that Mr F moved away and he can't find him now.

The only way to close this case is through DNA but you need permissions from countries and family members of Jennifer to submit their DNAs.

As someone who grew up in western part of Germany, Jennifer Fergate looks Eastern European and with families that could be in Russia/Belarus/Poland/Latvia area.

It's extremely common for guns to be made up from parts of other ones. This is especially true of military guns as they get sent for rebuilding with different parts all the time. Private shooters may also build up guns from various parts for many reasons. I've had guns made from parts of other guns (or just brand new parts from different makers), it’s very common.

It is entirely reasonable that this gun was simply one that was stolen from a legitimate owner. In fact, that is ny far the most likely scenario, to me.

There is lots of rubbish spouted about this gun. One thing which is me tinned time and time again is that the serial number was "progessionally" removed. That is simply total rubbish - there is no profession of removing serial numbers and there are very, very few legitimate reasons for doing so.

The gun had a receiver made by FEG in Hungary, the slide was marked Browning Canada and the barrel was most likely Browning produced in Belgium. Those are the known facts.

Whether she looked depressed or not is completely irrelevant. Outwardly happy people kill themselves with startling regularity.

You are also wrong about "spies" and how they operate; its not all James Bond running around the planet armed to the teeth and shooting people.

95% of espionage agents sit in offices staring at computer screens. Think of the ones you hear about getting captured; they are almost always people in companies stealing defence secrets or taking bribes to let things slide through. When did you ever hear of one being caught armed?

Spies are usually recruited locally, not dispatched off round the world, especially not armed; the Cambridge spy ring in the 50s was young men who were recruited on ideological grounds. The lesson being that "spies" are almost always people who should be where they are operating, you expect to see them there.

Jennifer wasn't a spy. There is literally nothing to suggest that she was.

 

[AugustusWentworth]

I submitted a potential match (and I believe it is a very good one) to The Doe Network a few years ago, it passed their panel (which proves it was good, I guess), they submitted it to LE in two countries (one's obviously Norway). Few weeks ago I asked if they had any news and apparently they never heard back from LE so they re-submitted it...

As usual, I think people are reading too much into a lot of things. If you asked a Norwegian to pronounce "Cerbis", you'd notice it sounds a lot like the German word "Service" (and the English word "service", of course) - remember this was a phone conversation between two people using a language that was probably neither's native language. She most probably meant she was working in hospitality, cleaning or something like that... It was probably not true either (like her address), but I think that's what she meant... Why would she provide a fake name, a fake address and then mention a real company, let alone the company she was actually working for?

 

[AugustusWentworth]

Btw, Cerberus, the Belgian company mentioned in VG articles, did not exist in 1995, as far as I can see: Resultaat opzoeking | KBO Public Search

 

[CrossNokind]

There is a Cerberus in Belgium but it is an air defense system. I don't know for how long that system was in development phase before it was build. Belgium sent this system to Ukraine for air protection.

There is another Cerebus in Luxembourg which is a capital management company since 1992.

Jennifer either meant something else but if it was Cerberus it exist in the same countries (BL - Belgium & Luxembourg) she used in the registration card.

 

[AugustusWentworth]

There is a Cerberus in Belgium but it is an air defense system. I don't know for how long that system was in development phase before it was build. Belgium sent this system to Ukraine for air protection.

There is another Cerebus in Luxembourg which is a capital management company since 1992.

Jennifer either meant something else but if it was Cerberus it exist in the same countries (BL - Belgium & Luxembourg) she used in the registration card.

The only reason we could care for the company is that it might confirm ties to Belgium and Luxembourg, but we already know she had some ties with that area (she even tried to call a number in that area). She provided all fake details, surely she would not disclose the company she was working for (assuming she was even working for some company, I honestly doubt it), ESPECIALLY if it was some big financial company or a something linked to a defense system...

In short, even if she actually said Cerberus, she was most definitely lying... so...

 

[AugustusWentworth]

Cerberus was unveiled in 2024, I seriously doubt it's been in development for 30 years World Defense Show 2024: Teledyne FLIR develops large CUAS to be sent for service in Ukraine and Middle East | Shephard

 

[CrossNokind]

Jennifer would not reveal her real employer since I think she was a spy. However, she might have known companies in Luxembourg or Belgium that might have been 'Cerbis' or whatever she was saying she works at.

 

[AugustusWentworth]

Jennifer would not reveal her real employer since I think she was a spy. However, she might have known companies in Luxembourg or Belgium that might have been 'Cerbis' or whatever she was saying she works at.

But, again, we already know she had ties to that area, it wouldn't be new information... Focusing on that company name is a bit of a waste of time, imo...

 

[Marantz4250b]

Jennifer would not reveal her real employer since I think she was a spy. However, she might have known companies in Luxembourg or Belgium that might have been 'Cerbis' or whatever she was saying she works at.

I'm still at a loss as to why people think this, tbh. What actual evidence is there for it? Also, and very importantly, how many people on here (or anywhere else on the internet) actually know what character traits and behaviors are evidence of someone being a spy and are qualified through experience to make that call? I'm guessing that the answer is very close to zero.

There simply seems to be no evidence for her being anything to do with espionage, as far as I can tell.

The way I look at it, if people on a random internet discussion can watch a TV show and read some online articles and conclude that she was a spy then she wasn't a very good one.

 

[Marantz4250b]

But, again, we already know she had ties to that area, it wouldn't be new information... Focusing on that company name is a bit of a waste of time, imo...

Do we? The only things we have (unless I've forgotten something relevant) are what she wrote on the registration card. Lets not forget that she even spelled her name at least two different ways so I don't think we can put much faith in anything she wrote on it.

We don't know that she had any connections to where she gave as her address - anyone could write down any name and address but if they don't have documentation to prove it then it's meaningless. Verlaine may have no more relevance to her than perhaps being somewhere she passed through as a child on a family holiday for all we know.

In my opinion, people need to go back to first principles and start afresh; in reality there is very, very little we know to be provable facts about this case. We know that she was found shot dead in a hotel room with a few clothes, a Browning GP35 assembled from random parts in her hand and some ammo in a leather briefcase. None of that tells us a whole hell of a lot.