Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[Beekarina]

Strangely, I cannot find anything for vSetlana Grigoryevna Tankevich in Interpol.

 

[Mireille]

Reposting an image from before. Here you have a lot of different "black" colours, and "textures" which indicates different things. The shirt/top on the image was all black. There is some odd "painting" going on around the gun. Trying to hide or erase the tip of the gun, possibly also the back of it. By doing so, making it 7-8 cm shorter. I don't know what that red grainy texture is right below on her shirt. All the clothing was destroyed 2 months later (well into understanding that they could not ID her)

Look at how clean that hand is. After two gunshots, possibly 3, maybe more. Bloodspatter on wall, under bed, mattress a bloody mess. Blood on the phone, by her foot etc. Yet, not a speck of GSR, blood, marks, any form of skin getting caught anywhere. Just nothing. It is amazing how nothing is on that hand.

 

[Beekarina]

@Mireille can you enhance her photo, and do an overlay with the postmortem to see how they align?

Apologies for not having photoshop!

 

[Marantz4250b]

I agree with you. According to what I found of sources, she shot herself in the front of the forehead, middle. Using her thumb, which is, very awkward since most would just use their finger on the trigger. The position of both hands up by her chest is odd. Was she laying down when she shot herself? The gun is placed in her hand as if she is just 'holding it'. With the thumb on the trigger of course.

There was a study in the late 90's where they looked into amongst other things, how hands landed after someone shot themselves.
You can find that here: Weapon location following suicidal gunshot wounds - PubMed

I will just copy-paste some ....

The location of the gun following suicidal gunshot wound was studied by reviewing 574 such deaths in which the scene was investigated by a medical examiner investigator and the body was examined at the Bexar County Medical Examiner's Office in San Antonio, Texas. The position of the gun could not be established in 76 cases. In the remaining 498 cases, the gun remained in the deceased's hand in 24% of the cases. In 69% of the cases, the gun was on or near the body but not in the hand (i.e., touching the body or within 30 cm of the body). The gun was found >30 cm from the body in the remaining 7% of cases. In the case of handguns, the gun was found in the hand in 25.7% of individuals. For individuals using long guns, the firearm was in the hand of the decedent in 19.5% of cases. The gun had a greater chance of remaining in the deceased's hand if the person was lying or sitting when the gunshot wound was received. Variables such as gender of the individual, wound location, and caliber of handgun were not significant in predicting whether the gun stayed in the hand after a suicidal gunshot wound.

So there is a rough 1/4 chance of it remaining in her hand (though I do not know in what way these people shot themselves)

I disagree, and have said so previously on here. If you are shooting yourself in the forehead with a full-sized service pistol then the hold she was using would be by far the most comfortable and easiest to use. Check the linked video from the scene in Lethal Weapon where Martin Riggs is contemplating shooting himself - he's using precisely the hold that Jennifer used! Try to do, or at least think through, the physical contortions you'd need to use to get a conventional hold on the gun so that your trigger finger were actually on the trigger.

The study into where guns fell is an interesting one. I'll bet though that very few of those suicides involved shots to the forehead. I haven't read it all but if you were to isolate the incidents which were forehead shots which used this style of hold then I think that the number of instances in which the gun was retained in the hand would be far, far higher as it would be a very secure hold, I think. You have your fingers around the backstrap rather than your palm against it and fingers are designed for doing the job of exerting force! Your entire hand would be tensed. I'd guess that it would be actually uncommon for a gun such as this to fall away, quite honestly. That is also backed up by the fact that her thumb was still exerting pressure on the trigger when the gun was removed from her hand.

 

[Beekarina]

How did she shoot herself in the forehead, laying down, holding a gun beneath her chin?

Am I overlooking something really obvious?

 

[Mireille]

How did she shoot herself in the forehead, laying down, holding a gun beneath her chin?

Am I overlooking something really obvious?

The shot was in the middle of her forehead

 

[Mireille]

The images are not the same angle, so it is a bit difficult to discern...

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I disagree, and have said so previously on here. If you are shooting yourself in the forehead with a full-sized service pistol then the hold she was using would be by far the most comfortable and easiest to use. Check the linked video from the scene in Lethal Weapon where Martin Riggs is contemplating shooting himself - he's using precisely the hold that Jennifer used! Try to do, or at least think through, the physical contortions you'd need to use to get a conventional hold on the gun so that your trigger finger were actually on the trigger.

The study into where guns fell is an interesting one. I'll bet though that very few of those suicides involved shots to the forehead. I haven't read it all but if you were to isolate the incidents which were forehead shots which used this style of hold then I think that the number of instances in which the gun was retained in the hand would be far, far higher as it would be a very secure hold, I think. You have your fingers around the backstrap rather than your palm against it and fingers are designed for doing the job of exerting force! Your entire hand would be tensed. I'd guess that it would be actually uncommon for a gun such as this to fall away, quite honestly. That is also backed up by the fact that her thumb was still exerting pressure on the trigger when the gun was removed from her hand.

And the gun magically shrunk 5-7cm after she pulled the trigger?

 

[Beekarina]

Ok, I just saw the Lethal Weapon video. I'm still not understanding how everything ends up in the position as photographed.

Look at the post mortem photo. There is blood all over her neck. I think she was shot in the chest, and then perhaps again in the forehead, by someone else. Tap, tap.

 

[Mireille]

Ok, I just saw the Lethal Weapon video. I'm still not understanding how everything ends up in the position as photographed.

Look at the post mortem photo. There is blood all over her neck. I think she was shot in the chest, and then perhaps again in the forehead, by someone else. Tap, tap.

Most likely story is: she was lying in bed, decides to end her life. Puts gun to forehead. Shoots. Dies. Hands fall down to chest cause of gravity. 1/4 chance to keep hold of gun. As was pointed out by @Marantz4250b it is not heavy on recoil. But it would still recoil.

That however, does not explain the two bloodpools with high velocity bloodspatter beneath her. It also makes me wonder even more how there is no blood on her hand, when everywhere else got some blood. Including the phone, wall, ceiling, floor, etc. Again, it COULD happen, it is just, amazing how it did not. I still find this unlikely and see it as murder. For whatever reason, crime, spy, drugs, prostitution, does not matter, I believe a second person was there. John, client, friend, angry ex, etc.

 

[Beekarina]

In a room with no pants, and way more bullets than she ever needed?

ooookay guys.

Hej då

 

[Mireille]

In a room with no pants, and way more bullets than she ever needed?

ooookay guys.

Hej då

Some staff believe they saw her with a tiny suitcase on wheels, which is very common these days, but you did not see much in the 90's. It is counted as handluggage and means she was travelling light. She had 4 of everything, which means she also had 3-4 pair of undies somewhere. Most likely there. And whomever had to leave that room took this with them. There is no way she'd bring 4 of everything,t hen decide not to have some underwear. It is 3 bucks at any cheap clothing store, easily available anywhere in oslo.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Totally agree. I feel the last few days we’ve started to see the weirdness that’s been there all along.

I think that a lot of people are actively looking for "weirdness" and spotting it where there is none. A perfume bottle on a hotel table is hardly an indicator of something particularly unusual. What I've noticed though through watching loads of crime stuff, reading articles and discussing on boards like this is that there really is no such thing as "normal". People, and I mean everyone, will do lots of individual things which seem "abnormal" or even perverse to others when focused on one specific piece of behavior or act. They'll then take those in isolation and conclude that something (or someone) is adrift because of it.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Some possible reasons for Jane Doe not writing down her passport info:

- She had an EU or UN laissez-passer, a travel document that staff/diplomats from the EU/UN have allowing them to cross borders;
- She had a NATO ID card allowing cross-border travel;
- She had an Interpol Travel Document;
- She had a diplomatic passport;

or a forged version of one of the above. Yes these documents would have ID numbers, but hotel staff would be more likely to waiver the requirement, and the guest would be in a better position to refuse. Particularly if say, her credential was with a major country like Israel, or an institution like NATO.

Or she was Norwegian or lived in Norway?

 

[Mireille]

Or she was Norwegian or lived in Norway?

A norwegian woman who, at no point communicates in norwegian when in contact with the staff to order her room? (Or later)
Only english and german?

 

[Oakie]

How far does a 21-24 year old go in an intelligence agency that early into her career? Does she go far enough that she could be involved with something that would justify this level of cover up?

I don't believe she was an "agent". I'm thinking more along the lines of "slave", someone mind-controlled, which is why I referenced MK-Ultra. Look up Cathy O'Brien on YouTube, for an account of how this works. My guess is that she was on the run, trying to escape her controllers. She was doing everything she could to avoid leaving any sort of trail.

I don't think she shot herself....people who shoot themselves usually lose grip on the gun. The scene was staged.

And by the way, it's pretty easy to "lock a door from the inside", from the outside. That trick is standard trade-craft among spooks.

 

[Beekarina]

 

[Beekarina]

Vigdis Valo in the above is blonde. She has short hair as an older woman, although it appears to be very fine.

 

[Marantz4250b]

The way she wrote the number 1 is definitely very European.
We don't write it that way in the UK, we just do a straight vertical line down. No additional bits attached.

I tend to do that sometimes. I also always put the line through my number sevens too which people at work always comment on. I'm British but a bit of a weirdo. Very specific, small, individual details tell you very little about a person, usually. You have to look at the whole picture.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I also been wondering about the discolouration of that pillow in the chair.

I will point out if someone did shoot her sitting on the bed, they would have a straight line at it from that chair.

Both bullets passed through the bed and ended up on the floor under it. She was clearly and obviously shot whilst lying on the bed.