NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[Spice]

I would say that without an interview with this person, or at least some personal dialogue with them, I wouldn’t make any assessment about how their activities really affected their life. Everyone is different, and people thrive in different situations. I certainly couldn’t paint any sort of mental picture of this person from what little we know right now. The possible motives range from a dangerous psychopath to an otherwise relatively normal smart individual who was radicalized in the last year. That’s a large range to cover.

I am engaged in a discussion. I have provided professional literature to aid a discussion, not a comprehensive mental health assessment, (Which cannot be conducted on a dead person) which to your point, entails much more and is interactive in nature, using many different skills and in the moment observations. An assessment is obviously a two way street. Without the person in front of you there can be no true and pure assessment. Even then, your assessment is informed by what is in front of you in the moment and can change over time.

However, a discussion and processing of what we do know in relation to what we do not can occur. I don't know what his motive was and never pretended to. No one does at this point. What i can SURMISE is that there is obvious pathology there. You don't need a license for that. And since we will never be able to interview him and therefore assess him we have to go with what has been released to this point and with established peer reviewed empirical research to enrich the discussion. Every day there is more and more there to chew on.

I don't claim to know his motive. I do know that he was dangerous. Obviously. There is plenty of evidence to support that, namely 58 dead innocents and hundreds more injured. As far as his being radicalized in the past year. I have seen no evidence to support that as of yet. In fact, I believe LE has already stated that there is no evidence of radicalization or "overseas" terrorism to date.

 

[Betty P]

Good points. We don't know if he ever "tried to quit", I'm not sure if he had to consider that because he was good at analyzing numbers and had the monetary means, which could in and of itself become a vicious cycle.

Would you say that he gambled in moderation? That it was a "healthy" hobby for him? Would you say that it ever interfered with his sleep hygiene? (IE gambling 14 hours straight) Do you think sleep deprivation has an effect on your mental health? Would that kind of sustained gambling on a regular basis appear compulsive to you? Do you think it has anything to do with learned behavior that is found in addiction as far as reward and dopamine levels in the brain? Would you say that the amount of gambling a person does in and of itself can speak to impulsivity? Although we all are different and require different levels of interaction, would you say that human beings are social and wired for social interaction and without out it we literally fail to thrive and can die? Would you say that meticulously planning and shooting at a crowd of 22,000 innocent people to kill as many as possible while utilizing your math skills because you are "good with numbers" does not reflect personality pathology and an absolute lack of empathy and compassion for others? Would you say that being actively suicidal and homicidal with intent and plan does not indicate distress, dysfunction , or dangerous pathological behavior and imminent risk to self or others? Do you think his choice of the scene of this massacre (A casino hotel ) both held subconscious meaning for him as well as convenience of opportunity / familiarity?

While we don't yet know a lot about his lifestyle and health, his interviews and those with other gamblers and associates who knew him indicate he spent a great deal of time gambling. I've wondered what the long term effects of sleep deprivation could do to someone. By long term, it seems he'd been living this unhealthy lifestyle for more than a decade. He may have learned to balance sleep and waking periods enough to function, but over years that might take a toll on the brain/CNS, etc. Could it have a cumulative effect? Don't forget to add in the punishment to brain and body from ongoing sustained stress of winning and losing large amounts of money for hours, days, weeks on end. I got a headache just reading one article where the gamblers described how they lock down multiple video poker machines and play them simultaneously, in rapid succession. Talk about wear and tear on your mind and body.

 

[m00c0w]

I am engaged in a discussion. I have provided professional literature to aid a discussion, not comprehensive mental health assessment, which to your point, entails much more and is interactive in nature, using many different skills and in the moment observations. An assessment is obviously a two way street. Without the person in front of you there can be no true and pure assessment.

However, a discussion and processing of what we do know in relation to what we do not can occur. I don't know what his motive was and never pretended to. No one does at this point. What i can SURMISE is that there is obvious pathology there. And since we will never be able to interview him, we have to go with what has been released to this point and with established peer reviewed empirical research to enrich the discussion. Every day there is more and more there to chew on.

I don't claim to know his motive. I do know that he was dangerous. Obviously. There is plenty of evidence to support that, namely 58 dead innocents and hundreds more injured. As far as his being radicalized in the past year. I have seen no evidence to support that as of yet. In fact, I believe LE has already stated that there is no evidence of radicalization or "overseas" terrorism to date.

I never said anything about overseas terrorism. Radicalization is not unique to one cause. Last I checked, they were investigating possible radicalization per the last presser with the Sheriff.

 

[jjenny]

No, it doesn't make sense that a phone charger for a non-rechargeable phone links him to SP. It's bs.

Looking on LinkedIn, this man spent the last few years retired and 10 years working for GM and another company, creating molded plastic items. He killed himself and his terminally ill daughter. His daughter had a torturous and fatal neurological disorder, was confined to a wheelchair, and was solely dependent upon her parents for survival.

But FBI apparently just searched his home.
"A federal magistrate judge would have approved a search of the home. However, approval of a search does not ensure a crime was committed; instead, it is a search for evidence of a crime."
http://www.democratandchronicle.com...-fbi-search-fairport-rett-syndrome/738874001/

 

[Spice]

I never said anything about overseas terrorism. Radicalization is not unique to one cause. Last I checked, they were investigating possible radicalization per the last presser with the Sheriff.

I used or. "Radicalization or Overseas Terrorism". I agree completely that radicalization is not unique to international terror, it can be very much domestic.

 

[ohreally]

Did his gambling cause distress? Dysfunction? Was it dangerous?

In reality, we know almost nothing about his gambling habit other than he did it a lot. That, in and of itself, does not make someone an addict. You make an allegory to smoking and nicotine. There are no indications that he had any issues not gambling for periods of time, that he couldn't give up gambling if he so chose to do so, or that he was truly "addicted" in any way, other than he spent a lot of time at casinos, sometimes. Sometimes he went on month-long trips. It may have just been something he was good at and enjoyed (analyzing numbers and probability with absolutely no social interaction), and made him feel comfortable while also earning money. That would point to a disorder besides a gambling addiction... We just don't know enough to say for certain what was going on in his life, and you certainly don't have to be "headless" to have reservations about making judgements with what little information we have.

I agree we know so little about him I don't see how he can be labeled addicted to gambling. I was researching online the other day to see if a professional gamble would be an addicted gamble. What I read was no a professional gamble does not mean the person is addicted.
We don't know what else he did with his time. His brother did say he like to go to the shows. As far as we know he was paying his gambling debts, so he wasn't playing to the extent he was putting himself in financial troubles.
Mr. Wynn said that he was not a compulsive gamble. IIRC Mr. Wynn said he was a regular coming into the Wynn establishments a couple of times a month.
He did spend many hours playing at one sitting. I get that. It has been said that he played for the perks and liked certain machines. So he shows up two hours before to make sure to get the machine he wants and plays the eight hours of the promotion. Geeze if we let kids sit in front of a game system many would play for 8 hours or more straight.
We don't know that he cancelled appoints, date night, or anything in his life because he couldn't tear himself away from the machines. We don't know if he set himself a time limit to play and constantly overstayed. We don't know that he set himself a spending limit and constantly over spent on his gambling.
IMO labeling him something that he may not be does not help to find out why he did the horrible thing he did.

 

[MsFacetious]

He eventually shot himself in the mouth, yes. And that would be fatal, yes. However, we have not been told if he only had one GSW. Nothing precludes him at this point from having attempted another method, and having to fall back on the mouth route when the first attempt did not succeed as planned.

Having seen the pictures of his body, his only injuries were above the neck. No blood anywhere else. I don't believe he shot himself anywhere except the one head shot.

 

[Greater Than]

Please do not post non-MSM links. They are off limits here.

Posts with non-MSM links and any replies have been removed.

Please ensure your links are from mainstream media before posting them.

:tyou:

 

[Spice]

I agree we know so little about him I don't see how he can be labeled addicted to gambling. I was researching online the other day to see if a professional gamble would be an addicted gamble. What I read was no a professional gamble does not mean the person is addicted.
We don't know what else he did with his time. His brother did say he like to go to the shows. As far as we know he was paying his gambling debts, so he wasn't playing to the extent he was putting himself in financial troubles.
Mr. Wynn said that he was not a compulsive gamble. IIRC Mr. Wynn said he was a regular coming into the Wynn establishments a couple of times a month.
He did spend many hours playing at one sitting. I get that. It has been said that he played for the perks and liked certain machines. So he shows up two hours before to make sure to get the machine he wants and plays the eight hours of the promotion. Geeze if we let kids sit in front of a game system many would play for 8 hours or more straight.
We don't know that he cancelled appoints, date night, or anything in his life because he couldn't tear himself away from the machines. We don't know if he set himself a time limit to play and constantly overstayed. We don't know that he set himself a spending limit and constantly over spent on his gambling.
IMO labeling him something that he may not be does not help to find out why he did the horrible thing he did.

I am not ready to "Dismiss" his absolutely constant gambling as irrelevant. I am more interested in the possibility that there is a connection to his literal constant preoccupation with gambling and the possibility of the existence of a possible cluster B personality disorder as the linked studies have researched and found prevalence. That's all.

Also, for someone that was so apparently smart and numbers savvy (An understatement at this point), he had to know that gambling machines and video poker are geared toward the house. So no matter how good he was with numbers, the machines / video poker are not there to put the house out of business. He had to know that. He may have been somewhat successful at not losing it all (that we know of) because he was so good at analyzing. But in the end it would have been a losing game. Yet he persisted, to the tune of 20,000 dollar hands sometimes 14 hours straight. Does that sound at all balanced or like simple hobby to any of us? Does that not sound compulsive, obsessive, impulsive, and pathological?

It does to me. And we don't definitively know yet if he had any debt or financial ramifications due to his constant gambling.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM.

This. Right. Here.

It was always in him. That is what this tells me 1000 percent. He was clearly a ticking time bomb. Hindsight is always 20 /20 with these people.

Rioting is not a socially acceptable act.

Dressing in a "flak jacket", arming yourself , and lying in wait like a sniper on a rooftop to "wait for the rioters" is also not a socially acceptable act. Its an act of a disturbed person. A disturbed person who ultimately repeated this same behavior , but this time he directed at innocent concertgoers.

If someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, its one thing.

Playing out some sniper fantasy is another. The signs were there.

Also, I watched the brother's second interview in full and my jaw was on the floor. His affect was so inappropriate to the content. The whole thing was just beyond bizarre. And if you go back and watch the very beginning, he flashes such an angry and creepy look at a reporter after the reporter asks "How is your mother". It was so creepy. Just an observation. I have many from that interview. So many bizarre comments, so much rambling. The brother is SO superficial. Perseverating on his brother's wealth. So many shallow comments.

"Not everyone works at Taco Bell" (regarding his brothers wealth)

"You'll probably be investigating me at some point".

Bragging about eating sushi at "fusion restaurants"

You can also see the arrogance of the shooter in the comments. The whole "go get me a sandwich" comment and you just knew to do what he asked commentary, gives us a peek .

You want to paint him as some "evil genius", while he was "just steve" (Or something like that). So many comments lacked empathy, he was so glib , superficial, and totally rambling.

Just some really really WEIRD stuff. And I don't remember anyone at that point calling his brother an "evil genius". He is the one that used that term over an over again.

The family dynamics in this family, from early on to now, would reveal A LOT.

Catching up today, but great post! IANAD but I think that there's something inherited from Dad going on here with at least these two brothers, I've not seen the others, but the shooter and the chatty brother, yes. The chatty brother reminds me a little bit of Drew Peterson (lack of empathy and loud). At the very least, I feel he knew there was something not right about SP and chose to ignore it, or deny it, because honestly there's nothing much anyone could do if he'd never harmed anyone prior to this (At least not that I'm aware of) and might think he'll be blamed in some way. Iirc his blustering has went from, loosely quoted; "We rarely even spoke, he was just a guy", to knowing far more about him, and his spending habits, than I at first thought he did, based on his own statements. I, at first, thought they were estranged, which can be the case at times, when you have a loved one with a mental health issue, especially a personality disorder.

 

[human]

Their methodology of country-picking is certainly interesting. With the OECD member designator, they managed to leave out a whole bunch of countries that are considered high-income by the World Bank, but have much higher homicide rates than the US.

Really? Like which ones?

 

[sds71]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story,amp.html
The gunman who attacked a country-music concert in Las Vegas shot a security guard in the hotel before beginning his assault on the concertgoers, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday, a significant change to the timeline of the massacre that officials had previously given to the public.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I am not ready to "Dismiss" his absolutely constant gambling as irrelevant. I am more interested in the possibility that there is a connection to his literal constant preoccupation with gambling and the possibility of the existence of a possible cluster B personality disorder as the linked studies have researched and found prevalence. That's all.

Also, for someone that was so apparently smart and numbers savvy (An understatement at this point), he had to know that gambling machines and video poker are geared toward the house. So no matter how good he was with numbers, the machines / video poker are not there to put the house out of business. He had to know that. He may have been somewhat successful at not losing it all (that we know of) because he was so good at analyzing. But in the end it would have been a losing game. Yet he persisted, to the tune of 20,000 dollar hands sometimes 14 hours straight. Does that sound at all balanced or like simple hobby to any of us? Does that not sound compulsive, obsessive, impulsive, and pathological?

It does to me. And we don't definitively know yet if he had any debt or financial ramifications due to his constant gambling.

RBBM

I can and have engaged in hobbies and activities for 14 hours straight that I am skilled at. I have an unusually long attention span for whatever it is that deeply interests me, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.

So, maybe you're asking the wrong person, lol...but that alone doesn't spell pathology in my book. The gambling would have to be shown to be harming him or others to be pathological, IMHO.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story,amp.html
The gunman who attacked a country-music concert in Las Vegas shot a security guard in the hotel before beginning his assault on the concertgoers, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday, a significant change to the timeline of the massacre that officials had previously given to the public.

That certainly is a big change from what they previously claimed. I must say original claim didn't make much sense to me. Security guard went there to investigate the door alarm. Which made me think, why in the middle of the shooting hotel was investigating a door alarm?

 

[enelram]

Catching up today, but great post! IANAD but I think that there's something inherited from Dad going on here with at least these two brothers, I've not seen the others, but the shooter and the chatty brother, yes. The chatty brother reminds me a little bit of Drew Peterson (lack of empathy and loud). At the very least, I feel he knew there was something not right about SP and chose to ignore it, or deny it, because honestly there's nothing much anyone could do if he'd never harmed anyone prior to this (At least not that I'm aware of) and might think he'll be blamed in some way. Iirc his blustering has went from, loosely quoted; "We rarely even spoke, he was just a guy", to knowing far more about him, and his spending habits, than I at first thought he did, based on his own statements. I, at first, thought they were estranged, which can be the case at times, when you have a loved one with a mental health issue, especially a personality disorder.

Yes, agree, and this is also why FBI spent 5 hrs. with him Sunday night as he arrived in L.V., met him at airport and
escorted him to a 5 hr. interview.

Again, go to youtube and watch brother Eric's first few interviews without the tinted glasses on. For the real FREAK
SHOW, turn off your audio and watch the facial contortions and body language. Hyper-dramatic behavior. then read the comments section. Very enlightening.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story,amp.html
The gunman who attacked a country-music concert in Las Vegas shot a security guard in the hotel before beginning his assault on the concertgoers, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday, a significant change to the timeline of the massacre that officials had previously given to the public.

Thank you very much. I missed the press conference and am wondering if there were any other big changes to the timeline or other interesting info. TIA

 

[sds71]

Lombardo also says Stephen Paddock had personal protection equipment in his room.
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/36556165/sheriff-still-dont-know-motive-of-las-vegas-shooter

 

[Spice]

RBBM

I can and have engaged in hobbies and activities for 14 hours straight that I am skilled at. I have an unusually long attention span for whatever it is that deeply interests me, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.



So, maybe you're asking the wrong person, lol...but that alone doesn't spell pathology in my book. The gambling would have to be shown to be harming him or others to be pathological, IMHO.

But I am not referring to you and you did not meticulously plan and carry out a massacre of innocent people.

 

[Spice]

Catching up today, but great post! IANAD but I think that there's something inherited from Dad going on here with at least these two brothers, I've not seen the others, but the shooter and the chatty brother, yes. The chatty brother reminds me a little bit of Drew Peterson (lack of empathy and loud). At the very least, I feel he knew there was something not right about SP and chose to ignore it, or deny it, because honestly there's nothing much anyone could do if he'd never harmed anyone prior to this (At least not that I'm aware of) and might think he'll be blamed in some way. Iirc his blustering has went from, loosely quoted; "We rarely even spoke, he was just a guy", to knowing far more about him, and his spending habits, than I at first thought he did, based on his own statements. I, at first, thought they were estranged, which can be the case at times, when you have a loved one with a mental health issue, especially a personality disorder.

Another comment in that second interview that raised my eyebrows went something like this (Paraphrasing ) :

We were really bad kids, I was a bad kid, just smart enough to hang around people that were not as smart as me so they would be the ones to get caught

Oh Boy.

 

[dotr]

Maybe the ( imo ) sadistic dirty horn dog liked the idea of all those people calling out for help.
Thinking that the whole thing for the perp. was like a nasty final wan- off with his big guns.
speculation.
http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/World/2017/10/09/22757616.html
rbbm.

Vegas killer Stephen Paddock liked hookers, rough sex

Now, one of the prostitutes hired by gambling fanatic Paddock has come forward to reveal a man unraveling.

The 27-year-old hooker — who would not be named — told The U.K. Sun that she spent hours drinking and gambling with Paddock.

She described the triggerman as “paranoid” and “obsessive,” often ranting for hours that the terror attacks on 9/11 were an inside job done at the behest of the U.S. government.

“If he hit a winning streak, he’d want really aggressive and violent sex, including living out his rape fantasies,” the sex worker told the tabloid.

The working girl said Paddock would shell out $6,000 a session for his time with her. She showed The Sun text messages from the twisted killer, where he describes restraining her “while you scream for help.”