NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #7

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  • #41
I wish FBI would hold their own pc and clarify once and for all the timeline and sequence of events.

Kittythehare, I'm starting to wonder if SP really was dealing in arms sales.

I knew someone back in 80's who WAS dealing in arms sales to a middle east country, was charge and arrested.
The similarities w/ SP's story are eerily similar.
 
  • #42
I wish FBI would hold their own pc and clarify once and for all the timeline and sequence of events.

Kittythehare, I'm starting to wonder if SP really was dealing in arms sales.

I knew someone back in 80's who WAS dealing in arms sales to a middle east country, was charge and arrested.
The similarities w/ SP's story are eerily similar.

If he was I reckon he would have had more than a couple of dozen..
Theres no evidence to suggest he was.
That rumor went out early though never made any sense, no more than the Isis rumors which persist..

Theres something else here, something we're not seeing either because its really obvious or because we're getting distracted by the side theories..

Maybe we should investigate the instigators of the false narratives?

Who is Paddock?
I understand many people have aversions to social media, but he actually did have family with whom he connected relatively regularly..
When did the germ of the idea first become planted in his brain?

wHY< WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?
 
  • #43
No, not necessarily. Remember LE stated they thought he fired at the tanks first?
Its possible that is what they heard..
They did not specify a timeline for tank-shooting as far as I know, just that they thought it preceded the crowd massacre..

I am completely depressed that no new info has emerged re Paddock, was offline for a few days cos storm took lines down..
There should be volumes by now.. where is it?
Who was this man and where are his tracks?

Anybody got any ideas at all?
I cannot move on until I find out why this man did what he allegedly did without a reason?

FBI doesn't always share that kind of information until they've finished their investigation or unless they need help from the public. They're in charge of this part of the investigation per last PC.

Two more things:

1. JC said when he called security the second time to tell them there was gunfire on the floor, he didn't tell them he was wounded as he wanted to get off the radio quickly so others could use the frequency. I wonder if the people at security didn't take him seriously about gunfire and delayed calling 911.

2. If JC said he heard the drilling noise while in the area next to the fire door, MGM may try to pin him with liability by saying he should have recognized it was gunfire. JMO, that would be wrong, but not surprising for a big corporation trying to save $$. That's why JC's union needs to have his back (and they do) to prevent the employer from throwing him under the bus. JC needs legal representation and I hope he's getting it from the union.

Easy to see the initial confusion over the timeline due to the noises that sounded like drilling, etc. The part left out of this interview is the communications after JC reported shooting on the floor. Clark Co sheriff said JC called security on the radio and on his cell phone. JMO, JC called them a second time on his cell to see why they hadn't called 911 or to clarify that he'd been shot. He didn't want to use up the radio frequency so others could communicate.

There's probably a dispute between JC, LE and MGM over this part and is why we haven't heard a 911 call yet. It probably went out later than it should have. Hotel security probably didn't believe JC when he reported gunfire or didn't think it was serious enough to call LE (crazy, but possible). MGM is pressuring LE and JC to support whatever scenario they're trying to come up with to explain the delay. The CT about multiple shooters, etc. also helps MGM because it serves to confuse the public and muddy the waters when they get to court for the civil lawsuits.

ETA: All JMO
 
  • #44
What JC heard might actually have been drilling, because from what has been reported, perp was drilling a hole in the wall. Regardless, MGM isn't going to try to pin him with liability because that wouldn't make any sense. JC doesn't have deep pockets.
 
  • #45
FBI doesn't always share that kind of information until they've finished their investigation or unless they need help from the public. They're in charge of this part of the investigation per last PC.

Two more things:

1. JC said when he called security the second time to tell them there was gunfire on the floor, he didn't tell them he was wounded as he wanted to get off the radio quickly so others could use the frequency. I wonder if the people at security didn't take him seriously about gunfire and delayed calling 911.

2. If JC said he heard the drilling noise while in the area next to the fire door, MGM may try to pin him with liability by saying he should have recognized it was gunfire. JMO, that would be wrong, but not surprising for a big corporation trying to save $$. That's why JC's union needs to have his back (and they do) to prevent the employer from throwing him under the bus. JC needs legal representation and I hope he's getting it from the union.

Easy to see the initial confusion over the timeline due to the noises that sounded like drilling, etc. The part left out of this interview is the communications after JC reported shooting on the floor. Clark Co sheriff said JC called security on the radio and on his cell phone. JMO, JC called them a second time on his cell to see why they hadn't called 911 or to clarify that he'd been shot. He didn't want to use up the radio frequency so others could communicate.

There's probably a dispute between JC, LE and MGM over this part and is why we haven't heard a 911 call yet. It probably went out later than it should have. Hotel security probably didn't believe JC when he reported gunfire or didn't think it was serious enough to call LE (crazy, but possible). MGM is pressuring LE and JC to support whatever scenario they're trying to come up with to explain the delay. The CT about multiple shooters, etc. also helps MGM because it serves to confuse the public and muddy the waters when they get to court for the civil lawsuits.

That makes a lotta sense Betty. Thanks.
Every mass shooting event attracts conspiracy theorists but we know now there are vested interests in pushing these forward.. bots etc etc.. grand multiply the claims..
Certainly machine/bumpstock gunfire sounds like a lot of shots and its impossible to pinpoint location of shooter if he stands out of view, which Paddock did.
Wonder if MGM had a hand in that one?

You see, there were also reports that several concert goers wet to get their own guns- I cannot locate that report now, But I did see it..

It made me think it could have been so much worse... people firing indiscriminately at eachother, probably inebriated and stoned for the gig.. add guns and a mass shooting aftermath... wow...
Cops have to be commended for heading that off at the pass. Report I read concerned police handling of event.

Theres at least 3 scenes her
1 Paddock's room(s)
2.Concert venue
3.Remainder of hotel, indoors..

We're not really clear about #1
theres more info re#2
theres almost nothing re #3.. Yet, #3 was the hub,

I wonder whether Paddock could have killed before?

I wonder at his life with MD, outside of the casinos..
The sterile characterless, practically lifeless home receiving the pizza deliveries....the garden without flowers..so many questions and no answers..
 
  • #46
  • #47
BettyP, It seems to me IF JC has an atty., then the atty would have been on Ellen also. I think this whole show was
planned and directed by MB.

How come the maintenance guy isn't back at work on the job? How'd he get time off again?
The 2 of them Shuck and Campos are 'working' for MB at this point and going along with their timeline. MOO

MONEY TALKS
 
  • #48
So do willy wonka and Michael Jackson.

I have an impulse to put out a rumor now that willy wonka did the whole thing.
 
  • #49
What JC heard might actually have been drilling, because from what has been reported, perp was drilling a hole in the wall. Regardless, MGM isn't going to try to pin him with liability because that wouldn't make any sense. JC doesn't have deep pockets.

MGM might try to pin liability on JC simply to lessen the likelihood that they're found negligent. An argument like that could help a lot in the process leading up to trial. They could leverage their way into getting dismissed from the suit or having reduced liability. They don't care how much money JC has, nor does a judge.
 
  • #50
<modsnip> ... Ellen comes across as a non threatening type of person and not likely to interrogate JC in an aggressive manor. She has a funny personality and is not out to get anyone. From what I've seen, she doesn't bring guests on her show for the sake of badgering them or coming at them in an aggressive way.

Hasn't this guy been through enough? JMO
 
  • #51
MGM might try to pin liability on JC simply to lessen the likelihood that they're found negligent. An argument like that could help a lot in the process leading up to trial. They could leverage their way into getting dismissed from the suit or having reduced liability. They don't care how much money JC has, nor does a judge.

Good points Betty, I'm afraid JC is not swift enough to see through the alleged plot being devised by MGM.
He may have been told about their fleet of atty.'s who have his back. OKay.....

Back to Kitty's questions on SP... did anyone catch the tv news this morning about the balloon pilot in Tx. who crashed and killed 16 people? Toxicology said he had Oxycontin, Benadryl and Valium in his system. All led to his poor judgement on flying on a poor weather day. Over confidence much?
Wonder if SP was taking this type cocktail?
 
  • #52
BettyP, It seems to me IF JC has an atty., then the atty would have been on Ellen also. I think this whole show was
planned and directed by MB.

How come the maintenance guy isn't back at work on the job? How'd he get time off again?
The 2 of them Shuck and Campos are 'working' for MB at this point and going along with their timeline. MOO

MONEY TALKS

Yes, I think MB/MGM is trying to control all of this right now. JC and SS seemed honest and it did fit with the LE timeline. They're both in unions with contracts with MB, so legally they cannot be fired without a really good reason. Nothing they said exonerated MB but, JMO, some of their comments (indirectly) implicated MGM. They did stop short of talking about what happened after that second phone call and when LE got up to the floor.

MGM would look bad if they fired JC and SS right now, but if they were not in unions, MGM would have them cooperating 100% on their story to keep their jobs. This is a great example of why its important to join or start a union at your workplace - to protect yourself in these situations. JC and SS are free to tell the truth and they need to for their own self-preservation.

Sheriff is between a rock and a hard place. MGM may be pressuring him, but if he plays their game, it makes LE look bad. FBI, OTOH, doesn't care about pressure as they're not employed by MGM and they don't have to run for re-election to keep their jobs.
 
  • #53
If this wasn't such a horrific event, I would be laughing hysterically at another change in the story. TPTB are literally making a mockery of the biggest mass shooting in modern American history. I feel so sorry for the victims.

The only good thing about this is the check MB is going to have to write to any of them just keeps getting bigger and bigger with all the changes. I can't imagine the helplessness/frustration/anger they must be feeling.
 
  • #54
MGM might try to pin liability on JC simply to lessen the likelihood that they're found negligent. An argument like that could help a lot in the process leading up to trial. They could leverage their way into getting dismissed from the suit or having reduced liability. They don't care how much money JC has, nor does a judge.

Could also be the plan to 'taint the jury pool'.
 
  • #55
  • #56
Could also be the plan to 'taint the jury pool'.

Yes, that's possible, though the primary goal in civil suits is to get the whole thing thrown out by a judge before it gets to trial. It may also be used to help force plaintiffs into a reduced settlement. Current civl lawsuits, IIRC, name the hotel/casino as the defendant, but MGM could possibly appeal to a judge to have JC and SS named separately as defendants, then hang them out to dry using the argument "hey, you're a security guard, you should have known the difference between the sound of a drill and that of an automatic rifle". If they push hard enough and get a sympathetic judge, MGM could be dropped from the suit entirely or held to a lower standard of accountability.

IANAL and I've only followed a few of these murder-related civil cases, so I'm no expert. The verified attorneys here at WS know more.
 
  • #57
Good points Betty, I'm afraid JC is not swift enough to see through the alleged plot being devised by MGM.
He may have been told about their fleet of atty.'s who have his back. OKay.....

Back to Kitty's questions on SP... did anyone catch the tv news this morning about the balloon pilot in Tx. who crashed and killed 16 people? Toxicology said he had Oxycontin, Benadryl and Valium in his system. All led to his poor judgement on flying on a poor weather day. Over confidence much?
Wonder if SP was taking this type cocktail?

No idea.
He could have bombed the oil tanks..
he could have parked his car in a place where it would kill many if it exploded, all this without needing to set up scopes or elaborate plans from within a casino hotel..he could even have entered the concert wearing explosives and killed many more..Hotel guest etc ..
He could have set up bombs in the casinos all timed to go off at same time.. theres an awful lot more he could have done to optimise casualties..
Why did he choose that specific methodology?

Without any spin at all, conspiracies or alternative narratives or speculation.. if his objective was to kill many, he could have killed more, more easily.. his presence anywhere at that venue would not have attracted attention.. he was known.

I have never been in a casino and I do not know how many people maximum are in each room, but probably more than 60?

Useless speculation I know.. but what specific to that style mass killing did he in his mind have most to gain from.. (not gun debate answers, just whwt?)
 
  • #58
Thank you for posting the interview. Interesting that it was not drilling, but gunshots that he heard.
I feel so much for these men, especially Campos. From the interview he seems to not have any ego (for lack of a better word) about being a hero. He just wanted to tell his story once then to be left alone. Hopefully he can now move forward and heal.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's supposed to be a hero. He didn't do anything courageous. He was walking down a hallway and got shot. He told a couple other people to take cover. He didn't rush in and tackle the gunman and disarm him, he didn't stop the gunman from killing and wounding people.

I'm glad he wasn't killed, but he's not a hero.
 
  • #59
No idea.
He could have bombed the oil tanks..
he could have parked his car in a place where it would kill many if it exploded, all this without needing to set up scopes or elaborate plans from within a casino hotel..he could even have entered the concert wearing explosives and killed many more..Hotel guest etc ..
He could have set up bombs in the casinos all timed to go off at same time.. theres an awful lot more he could have done to optimise casualties..
Why did he choose that specific methodology?

Without any spin at all, conspiracies or alternative narratives or speculation.. if his objective was to kill many, he could have killed more, more easily.. his presence anywhere at that venue would not have attracted attention.. he was known.

I have never been in a casino and I do not know how many people maximum are in each room, but probably more than 60?

Useless speculation I know.. but what specific to that style mass killing did he in his mind have most to gain from.. (not gun debate answers, just whwt?)
Oh I definitely think his drive for a long time has been the research and planning. The feeling of the power of the guns in his hands. He didn't want just a bomb, he wanted to see his control over others in each moment, like a puppeteer moving his puppets. I do think he wanted to kill tons of people, but I think him being in control was a central part. And researching the trajectory and stuff went well with his math brain.

My thing is still that this guy had to research. So there is electronic evidence. That will tell a whole lot about his mind set and what options he was considering. I have a feeling people will be shocked at the amount of horrific things he researched prior to choosing this one. I think that will come out in the end and not something they will leak pieces of.

All of that is my little opinion.

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  • #60
I'm still trying to figure out why he's supposed to be a hero. He didn't do anything courageous. He was walking down a hallway and got shot. He told a couple other people to take cover. He didn't rush in and tackle the gunman and disarm him, he didn't stop the gunman from killing and wounding people.

I'm glad he wasn't killed, but he's not a hero.
I don't think he wants the hero title. I think it is actually a badge that has caused him more grief and scrutiny than good. I think he would be fine losing that title.

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