NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #9

[dizzychick]

we need a time of death for Paddock.
And we will never get one.
They could and should, IMO have checked his temperature, manually to try to guess when he died.
Was his body still warm?

It's possible to tell from close up post mortem pictures in any case.. not exactly but can determine by the clotting of the blood.. and estimate against usual clotting times in similar environment.

But it's never dead accurate.

if he really did shoot himself in the head how did the gun wind up so far above his body and his arms appear to be at his side? bullet casings that are free of blood litter the stain above him as well, really strange

 

[watergirl62]

Yep I agree. A guy with a hose and a mask sounds like he expected tear gas. If he wanted to kill himself why would he care? I think he was killed MOO

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Yeah good question.

I thought tear gas also but it was just a snorkel mouthpiece and not a full-face respirator attached to the hose.

They mentioned they found 2 inhalers, maybe it was associated with breathing issues, so his physical ailments or weakness wouldn't compromise his magnum opus.

 

[CARIIS]

if he really did shoot himself in the head how did the gun wind up so far above his body and his arms appear to be at his side? bullet casings that are free of blood litter the stain above him as well, really strange

I think he was dead from the chest shot and and whoever did the mouth stuff to make it look like that.

That would explain the old much drier blood that was under the fresh blood.

I also think this was fastest name reveal of an event like this also IIRC!!

If ya think about suicidal stuff folks that ready to die wont load up there car with stuff for future.

Maybe the guns and bombs were for delivery after check out

here is the flight 24radar that night

if in pt go to 1550

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwT3X7HRSrM

 

[vlpate]

Yep I agree. A guy with a hose and a mask sounds like he expected tear gas. If he wanted to kill himself why would he care? I think he was killed MOO

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He had a gas mask contraption for the same reason he had cameras set up...he wanted to shoot as many people as possible before being shot or apprehended. At some point he decided it was time to escape, the coward's way. JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

He had a gas mask contraption for the same reason he had cameras set up...he wanted to shoot as many people as possible before being shot or apprehended. At some point he decided it was time to escape, the coward's way. JMO

I think that is possible, but I am not totally convinced that was the purpose of the hose. I wonder if maybe he set it up so he could breath clean air as he was shooting. Firing thousands of rounds inside a room would have caused a very strong smell of gunpowder, and among those smells is ammonia, etc. We know he had a strong aversion to some smells. Maybe he had the hose so he could fire without having to breath all that gun powder. I am unclear what the hose was connected to. Anyone help there? It does seem clear that he took precautions, video cameras, screwed shut doors etc, to keep LE at bay a while to continue shooting. So why didn't he? He had thousands of more rounds. Why did he stop after 10 minutes? I remember the Sheriff very early on saying that it was clear that Paddock intended to get out, but he never elaborated. I do think he probably intended some way to get out originally, make it to his car and continue his shooting spree on the run. That's why he had the weapons in the van. But something changed. I am not convinced that there were others involved....yet. But I do agree that this is all very strange.

 

[canadiangirl]

Yeah good question.

I thought tear gas also but it was just a snorkel mouthpiece and not a full-face respirator attached to the hose.

They mentioned they found 2 inhalers, maybe it was associated with breathing issues, so his physical ailments or weakness wouldn't compromise his magnum opus.

The facemask for the snorkeling equipment was on the table in the pic. I have no idea what this is about if not for breathing? Wonder where that hose led to?

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[PrairieWind]

Paddock had the ability to have purchased a real gas mask, so not sure why he went with this contraption. Maybe it was a last minute addition? as for the face mask, its location is odd. When purchasing a snorkle, the mask would have almost certainly came with it. So I am interested if he actually used the mask or if he just tossed it on the table.

 

[MsFacetious]

Paddock had the ability to have purchased a real gas mask, so not sure why he went with this contraption. Maybe it was a last minute addition? as for the face mask, its location is odd. When purchasing a snorkle, the mask would have almost certainly came with it. So I am interested if he actually used the mask or if he just tossed it on the table.

If he didn't use it, maybe this is why he stopped shooting and ended it early? I'd think you could move to the second room when the smoke got too bad. However, I'm glad he didn't, for whatever reason.

 

[PrairieWind]

Do we know if Paddock was right or left handed?

 

[watergirl62]

The facemask for the snorkeling equipment was on the table in the pic. I have no idea what this is about if not for breathing? Wonder where that hose led to?

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I meant breathing issues like asthma. Sorry its been a couple of days since I looked at the pics and I don't remember the facemask. Par for my brain. I thought I read that it was only a mouthpiece attached.

 

[bobcat]

If I remember correctly, the police report said that the facemask was found in the garbage.

 

[watergirl62]

Paddock had the ability to have purchased a real gas mask, so not sure why he went with this contraption. Maybe it was a last minute addition? as for the face mask, its location is odd. When purchasing a snorkle, the mask would have almost certainly came with it. So I am interested if he actually used the mask or if he just tossed it on the table.

Contraption is a great word. [emoji41]

Well, you have to fit-test a respirator and have correct cartridges for your COC. So, a FF or HF mask plus fit-test kit plus 2 or 3 sets of cartridges... maybe $100-200? Also need to be clean-shaven or it won't seal properly.

Maybe he didn't think of it until the last minute. It seems incongruous with the OCD behavior.

https://www.pksafety.com/?gclid=Cjw...tp6sRRvSzG1eIxIIDLOGaVUGvuJk4hkRoCFhAQAvD_BwE

 

[kittythehare]

I think that is possible, but I am not totally convinced that was the purpose of the hose. I wonder if maybe he set it up so he could breath clean air as he was shooting. Firing thousands of rounds inside a room would have caused a very strong smell of gunpowder, and among those smells is ammonia, etc. We know he had a strong aversion to some smells. Maybe he had the hose so he could fire without having to breath all that gun powder. I am unclear what the hose was connected to. Anyone help there? It does seem clear that he took precautions, video cameras, screwed shut doors etc, to keep LE at bay a while to continue shooting. So why didn't he? He had thousands of more rounds. Why did he stop after 10 minutes? I remember the Sheriff very early on saying that it was clear that Paddock intended to get out, but he never elaborated. I do think he probably intended some way to get out originally, make it to his car and continue his shooting spree on the run. That's why he had the weapons in the van. But something changed. I am not convinced that there were others involved....yet. But I do agree that this is all very strange.

he was not at all thinking like a normal person, and the windows were wide open so little chance of oxygen deprivation..
Do read the report, would really like your opinion on his movements since mid Sept..

 

[kittythehare]

Do we know if Paddock was right or left handed?

That question was asked and answered in the early threads but I cannot remember it or why it was asked, though I think I was the one asking it. Sorry. maybe someone remembers?

 

[kittythehare]

if he really did shoot himself in the head how did the gun wind up so far above his body and his arms appear to be at his side? bullet casings that are free of blood litter the stain above him as well, really strange

Well, there's usually a bit of a jerk when you put a gun in your mouth. The report did mention the bullet trajectory, cannot remember exactly the track and I'm trying to bore my way out of it having not fully digested it.. I am nowhere near complete - I don't know what the questions are, exactly.
But theres loads of info on forensic websites on the varieties of body movements following self inflicted head shots via the oral cavity..
It can be answered by googling likely outcome of bullet path as described in report.
it cannot be guessed though.

 

[Betty P]

No Cariis, it was actually a mass shooting.
If it was an arms deal, he would have done it over the internet or in person just like he bought them.
If it was an arms deal he would not have used them himself, he would be selling them in pristine condition.

If there was no evidence or reported testimony of degrees of insanity from his doctor, his girlfriend and the documented surveillance contained in the report, then one could well think he was selling guns, but hardly on the night he was conducting a mass murder, eh?
Why go for the arms dealing unfounded theory when there's a perfectly good body of evidence in the form of hundreds of images of child pornography in the suite, in his possession in a computer belonging to him and nobody else on the night that he died?

But again, until the information on the new prosecution becomes available that's only speculation too.
This dude overdid things.. that is documented and proof exists.
The proof is in the form of cctv footage and witness testimony.

If you want to believe he was dealing guns, thats your prerogative but I honestly dont see it.. the scraps of emails are gibberish at this point and it's an ongoing investigation with 10 pages of warrants already withheld pending indictment of a person.

I agree. The emails, if anything, seem to have come from someone (a gun store, private owner, etc.) who was responding to an inquiry from Paddock about buying more guns, etc. Paddock bought something like 50+ guns in the months prior to his murder spree in LV. OCD guy that he was, he was probably still looking to buy a few more weapons to add to his stockpile.

Sadly, all the guns, bump stocks, etc. that are mentioned in the subject email are all items that are easily and legally purchased in the US at the time. If Paddock was an arms dealer, who was he going to sell these guns to? If he was an arms dealer from the US, he has no real market in the US as guns are available to pretty much anyone here. The few laws we do have are poorly enforced, if at all.

The only markets for a gun dealer living in the US would be selling to people outside the US and that's a big league market. US arms dealers selling in the foreign market sell large volumes of weapons. By the truckloads and shiploads. It doesn't look like Paddock was buying large volumes of weapons.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Well, there's usually a bit of a jerk when you put a gun in your mouth. The report did mention the bullet trajectory, cannot remember exactly the track and I'm trying to bore my way out of it having not fully digested it.. I am nowhere near complete - I don't know what the questions are, exactly.
But theres loads of info on forensic websites on the varieties of body movements following self inflicted head shots via the oral cavity..
It can be answered by googling likely outcome of bullet path as described in report.
it cannot be guessed though.

I read a good bit on those too, the only recall I have at this moment is something about the bullet entering and but not exiting the skull, that it is typically more obliterated and the body collapses in a fold versus stretched out vertically.

I wonder (not for myself because I don’t think he killed himself at this point) if he laid down and then shot himself in the mouth could that explain his position?

Since the dude is dead there isn’t any good reason why we don’t know anything about his fatal wound? Gun of choice info, location of bullet, ETD, diagram, etc. These are basic, nothing rocket science.

 

[PrairieWind]

he was not at all thinking like a normal person, and the windows were wide open so little chance of oxygen deprivation..
Do read the report, would really like your opinion on his movements since mid Sept..

I don't think oxygen deprivation was the worry, but just that the smell of gunpowder would have been almost overwhelming. If smells bothered him, he have worried about it enough to come with a plan to deal with it. Although I could think of a lot better ways than this. And as Watergirl mentioned above, with his planning and OCD is seems odd to deal with it in this way. But maybe he did have an actual gas mask, but something happened to it last minute; ie it got lost or damaged. He didn't have time to get another and didn't want to put off the shooting, so he came up with the best he could last minute. Who knows.

I havent had time to read through the whole report, just been able to glance at it. I'll try over the next few days to get to it.

 

[Gooddeeds]

I am still questioning that as well. The man on Ellen was *not* the same man as pictured in the "Unarmed Hotel Security Guard Superhero Union Award" banquet.

This in my opinion is one of the top 5 most insulting of intelligence pieces to this horrific mass shooting...MASSACRE! No doubt in my mind it wasn’t him, but even if it were, ELLEN is not the venue for an interview for this event. No matter the ease of her demeanor.

If he was so fragile he didn’t have to do a TV interview period. Why not go with a radio interview with Tricia at Webslueths? (Tricia can you find him for us?)

 

[kittythehare]

I read a good bit on those too, the only recall I have at this moment is something about the bullet entering and but not exiting the skull, that it is typically more obliterated and the body collapses in a fold versus stretched out vertically.

I wonder (not for myself because I don’t think he killed himself at this point) if he laid down and then shot himself in the mouth could that explain his position?

Since the dude is dead there isn’t any good reason why we don’t know anything about his fatal wound? Gun of choice info, location of bullet, ETD, diagram, etc. These are basic, nothing rocket science.

Very good question and observation, he could well have done that.. he was weird enough to do anything.
But he also would have known a delay would occur before either swats or bomb disposal people got there and he knew door would and could not be breached without them.
He knew it because there is a dated record of him looking up their protocols.
That would have been a highly significant aspect of his calculations... the 'how much time do I have here?' question.

But I don't know why he stopped when he did.. He knew perfectly well there would be a delay assembling relevant professionals.
He knew Vegas.
Maybe he knew cops?

I say and many say, having read the report, that there was only one shooter.

There were two.
The 60 Minutes Stars had a dude who thought he was in the wild west.. opened that door and fired shots immediately.. damaging some furniture .. for which his bosses will be billed, no doubt..

I believe Paddock did it. I believe his tracks show us that.
I don't know why he stopped.
Or how he died.
Coroner is in charge and he may or may not release the information in full.
Off to google nefarious uses for unconnected snorkels and the possibilities..

The Plastic flowers, another anomaly..
Md stated he was highly sensitive to smells... that could be medical