Recovered/Located NV - Ronnie (found deceased) & Beverly Barker (taken for med care), RV trip, Stagecoach, 27 Mar 2022

[Seni]

If I understand correctly only Ronnie was a driver. What was the point of the second vehicle?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If I understand correctly only Ronnie was a driver. What was the point of the second vehicle?

RVs often tow a smaller vehicle so that once they are parked somewhere for the night, they can drive to a store or trailhead etc in a vehicle that isn't so hard to maneuver and which gets much better gas mileage.

 

[MRT3]

A tow car is typically to drive while a motor home is parked in a campground (with hookups connected).

 

[Seni]

@RickshawFan Interesting to hear your input on this case.

 

[MRT3]

<snip> Generally speaking, is it too much of an overreaction to advise RV/motorhome drivers to consider getting a PLB? (personal locator beacon). Has that been advised before? </snip>

There is a lot of advice out there to have non cell service based communications in remote areas. PLB's are just one type. I usually carry a Satellite phone, and a friend carries a Ham radio.

The old school method that's still one of the best is to tell a friend your expected route, return time, and an emergency number to call if one does not return. The downside is advance planning, and the possibility of getting way off route.

 

[Herat]

Missing couple’s family frustrated with local law enforcement | KLAS

I am interested in knowing if there are lessons to be learned/changes to make for SAR and missing persons procedures.

The biggest issue (most likely) was the long delay in issuing a Silver Alert because the NV policy didn't allow for non-residents and it took them a few days to make an exception. Obviously that should be an easy change to make, a quicker process for exceptions..

One of the recent stories (source) says that Ronnie/Beverly saw other cars, including another RV, as they were driving along rt. 265. If a Silver Alert had been issued quicker, would that have helped? On the FB group, some truckers mentioned checking their dashcams...it was also mentioned that it was such footage (from a dashcam) that led to the big break for the Gabby Petito case.

Generally speaking, is it too much of an overreaction to advise RV/motorhome drivers to consider getting a PLB? (personal locator beacon). Has that been advised before?

They apparently had planned a drive from Mt Shasta KOA to the Desert Eagle RV Park in Las Vegas on Sunday March 27

This is an 11 hour drive without any stops, so realistically it is a 12 + hour drive.

I drive a lot in the California-Nevada area, and I have a large, very comfortable truck that easily cruises at about 25 mph more than they would do in their rig, and that drive is about 5 hours too long for me, even with a second driver. My choice would have been to stop in the curious and unique Tonopah NV for the night. I have to think they were also getting tired at that point, too.

They apparently, and this is just what I have read so I may be incorrect, had not contacted family or friends in this journey so there were no real personal confirmations of their plans or progress since the gas-up in Stagecoach.

That was what was so difficult about the first 72 hours - there was no real “last” personal sighting or contact and it was entirely plausible that they had run into a person that wished them harm, stolen their vehicles and were out of the state by then.

I’m so very sad it turned out this way. The altitude and the cold were undoubtedly uncomfortable for Ronnie, who clearly had always been a very capable man.

But please, RV’rs, you don’t really need a $350 satellite phone and monthly subscription if you just keep contact with relatives or friends and update them on your progress, especially if you seem to deviate from a main road.

In Esmeralda County, Nevada about 98% of the traffic is on either Highway 95 or 6. Knowing they were safe and in their own vehicle at the intersection of 95 and 6 ( aka; Coaldale NV) would really have made a world of difference in the search for them.

 

[Lilibet]

They apparently had planned a drive from Mt Shasta KOA to the Desert Eagle RV Park in Las Vegas on Sunday March 27

This is an 11 hour drive without any stops, so realistically it is a 12 + hour drive.

That 12+ hour trip sounds horrendous. All I can say is “Whyyyyyyy”. That takes all the fun out of RVing.

 

[WingsOverTX]

They apparently had planned a drive from Mt Shasta KOA to the Desert Eagle RV Park in Las Vegas on Sunday March 27

This is an 11 hour drive without any stops, so realistically it is a 12 + hour drive.

I drive a lot in the California-Nevada area and that drive is about 5 hours too long for me, even with a second driver. My choice would have been to stop in the curious and unique Tonopah NV for the night. I have to think they were also getting tired at that point, too.

They apparently, and this is just what I have read so I may be incorrect, had not contacted family or friends in this journey so there were no real personal confirmations of their plans or progress since the gas-up in Stagecoach.

That was what was so difficult about the first 72 hours - there was no real “last” personal sighting or contact and it was entirely plausible that they had run into a person that wished them harm, stolen their vehicles and were out of the state by then.

I’m so very sad it turned out this way. The altitude and the cold were undoubtedly uncomfortable for Ronnie, who clearly had always been a very capable man.

But please, RV’rs, you don’t really need a $350 satellite phone and monthly subscription if you just keep contact with relatives or friends and update them on your progress, especially if you seem to deviate from a main road.

In Esmeralda County, Nevada about 98% of the traffic is on either Highway 95 or 6. Knowing they were safe and in their own vehicle at the intersection of 95 and 6 ( aka; Coaldale NV) would really have made a world of difference in the search for them.

If what you say BBM above is true, why? What would make getting to Desert Eagle RB Park that same day, assuming they left CA at noon, worth the fatigue, having to refuel at night, being on the (I assume) unfamiliar roads in darkness, etc.?

Hindsight is 20/20 but, if true, the dangers exponentially increased so why? When did they first realize, hey, we are LOST, as in "Toto we're not in Kansas" anymore?

Once they were off pavement, they were in danger because going back would mean leaving the RV (it could go only in one direction without a safe & large spot to turnaround).

Did they keep driving up in elevation the wrong way for hours after dark?

MOO

 

[spcagrl]

If I understand correctly only Ronnie was a driver. What was the point of the second vehicle?

As a couple who have owned a motorhome, I can tell you that it is great, everything you need on wheels! However…..many people pull a small car behind it because, well, its everything you need on wheels and its a honking BIG machine. Once you stop at a campground, you hook up to electricity, water, cable, and sewer. Its a royal pain to unhook everything whenyou want to take a mini trip sightseeing or to the store. So you hook up the monster and make it your base camp while you use the small car for side trips, or city visits.

 

[zecats]

That 12+ hour trip sounds horrendous. All I can say is “Whyyyyyyy”. That takes all the fun out of RVing.

They seemed to have a plan to meet friends in Tucson on March 29. That only allowed two days from Shasta, CA to there. (27th Shasta to Vegas/ 28th Vegas to Tucson).

Guessing Vegas was their idea of halfway point to make the destination on the day planned. If that date of arrival was set in stone for some reason, that would explain the long haul on the 27th. JMO

ETA Google shows driving distance Vegas to Tucson is 6.25 hours.

 

[crussell821]

I think it’s wise to remember that any of us can have a simple lapse in judgement that could put us in a life or death situation. It’s easy to look at a story like this, removed from the immediate emotional impact of it, and wax poetic about what you would or wouldn’t have done and tsk tsk about what the victims did. But, they’re just that- victims. Good people who made an error that cost them. I’m sure there is nothing that can be said here that Bev and the family don’t already realize.

MOO

 

[moonriverfarm]

We are ALL one bad decision away from jail, tragedy, death. Be kind.

 

[mickey2942]

They seemed to have a plan to meet friends in Tucson on March 29. That only allowed two days from Shasta, CA to there. (27th Shasta to Vegas/ 28th Vegas to Tucson).

Guessing Vegas was their idea of halfway point to make the destination on the day planned. If that date of arrival was set in stone for some reason, that would explain the long haul on the 27th. JMO

ETA Google shows driving distance Vegas to Tucson is 6.25 hours.

Sadly, my grandparents used to push themselves driving places, and had a single car accident on the highway at age 85, my grandfather over corrected and flipped the car. Both were lifeflighted to the hospital. Fortunately, they did not die, but it was very hard for them.

After that, they stopped long car trips.

 

[MimosaMornings]

LED road flares.
One is called a FRED light
(Flashing Roadside Emergency Disc)

Cheap glow sticks from Dollar Tree or other dollar type store which can be used to spell out SOS or attached to the vehicle, camper, boat, etc.
JMO

 

[cocomod]

Surprising that they didn't think to bring water bottles, juice and snacks in the car ... since the RV was stuck in the mud (be prepared) ... and weren't they both on medication for diabetes? Nine days away from the RV, or did they stay put for a couple of day and wait for someone to use the "find my phone" app? Was it nine days in the car?

The nephews interview said that since they came up the road easily and quickly, they thought they could go straight back down the same way they came up and get down quickly. The slept overnight and started out in the morning. Unfortunately, their tracks were not visible as they thought they would be (the area was more rocky than sandy), and somehow they took a wrong turn. They made a sad decision not to take necessities for certain. The nephew also stated that a big factor in his uncle's death was dehydrations. Simply sad!

(This is not directed at you Otto)
These two were used to RV'ing. This was their way of life. To say that they didn't belong out there is unkind and unfair. They made a mistake. Who in this world hasn't?! He died doing what he loved and they had a religious experience. I am certain he and she both wishes they had made different decisions. However, we have witnessed young people make similar mistakes. I hope that people learn from this without casting stones at this beautiful couple. JMVHO

 

[Satchie]

I think it’s wise to remember that any of us can have a simple lapse in judgement that could put us in a life or death situation. It’s easy to look at a story like this, removed from the immediate emotional impact of it, and wax poetic about what you would or wouldn’t have done and tsk tsk about what the victims did. But, they’re just that- victims. Good people who made an error that cost them. I’m sure there is nothing that can be said here that Bev and the family don’t already realize.

MOO

I think that is true of many situations in life, we're familiar with people having car accidents, getting lost, falling off high places...those situations are familiar, simple lapses in judgement, people know how they happen and how to prevent them, so they aren't a topic of much discussion.

Whereas, IMO, this situation is almost unprecedented, at least not since the earliest days of GPS, I think it's a natural use of human intelligence and a mechanism for suvival to analyse such a situation to try to understand how it could have happened and how such things could be prevented.
(I prefer to focus on prevention than what should be done to save other people who do the same thing...I hope it doesn't become a trend).

We don't say, "Let's not talk about preventing Covid because it's hurtful to the people who caught it and died from it".

JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

I think that is true of many situations in life, we're familiar with people having car accidents, getting lost, falling off high places...those situations are familiar, simple lapses in judgement, people know how they happen and how to prevent them, so they aren't a topic of much discussion.

Whereas, IMO, this situation is almost unprecedented, at least not since the earliest days of GPS, I think it's a natural use of human intelligence and a mechanism for suvival to analyse such a situation to try to understand how it could have happened and how such things could be prevented.
(I prefer to focus on prevention than what should be done to save other people who do the same thing...I hope it doesn't become a trend).

We don't say, "Let's not talk about preventing Covid because it's hurtful to the people who caught it and died from it".

JMO

Thank you Satchie. I agree.

 

[Ilex]

So sorry to hear Ronnie died. I had read about this case and figured they would be found in a couple of days. Condolences to the family and friends.

 

[MRT3]

Unfortunately, their GPS was configured to include unpaved roads per the family. However, a GPS saying to drive on an unpaved road in these conditions should have started a healthy caution and fear reflex along with questioning why. I think the problem begins here.

Over confidence in technology like GPS devices and smart-watches with SOS features might just suppress the normal caution and fear of driving a huge RV off-pavement alone into an unfamiliar remote mountainous desert area with no cell-phone service at night.

From my experience (off-road jeeps, hiking, and RV's), people with big RV's rarely go deep into this type of area, especially alone, and not without some serious thought about the risks (and plans to mitigate them). Big RV's obviously can get stuck off-road quite easily, often because they can't turn around or back up when necessary. They pretty much have to navigate and stay on good through-roads that don't turn into Jeep trails, or worse.

 

[SimplyCass]

I think it’s wise to remember that any of us can have a simple lapse in judgement that could put us in a life or death situation. It’s easy to look at a story like this, removed from the immediate emotional impact of it, and wax poetic about what you would or wouldn’t have done and tsk tsk about what the victims did. But, they’re just that- victims. Good people who made an error that cost them. I’m sure there is nothing that can be said here that Bev and the family don’t already realize.

MOO

I disagree. Now is the time to examine what happened and ways to mitigate or prevent it from happening again. The family is already calling on changes to the Silver Alert system, for instance.

I also don't agree that it's one mistake or one lapse of judgment. It was a series of decisions that, if any one of those had been done differently, could have prevented the tragic outcome. The goal isn't to tsk-tsk the victims, it's for us to learn from.

For instance, the timeline was extremely confusing at first, slowing us down. The initial reports of being in Stagecoach at 6:40 p.m. conflicted with the later evidence that they were further south by 5:35 p.m.. Then we didn't understand why there was a five-hour gap between the 5:35 p.m. to the last ping and had no idea where they could be.

then it turned out the data was EST, so Stagecoach was 3:40 p.m., and the last ping was 7:30 p.m., not 10:30 p.m.

If we understood that sooner, we could have narrowed the search area to the Silver Peaks area quicker and SAR teams perhaps rescued the two before Ronnie passed away.

JMO.