NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 1

[laytonian]

Im afraid Im with higherpower on this one. I think the attitude that LDS males over 30 are somehow so much more likely to be gay than that of the non-LDS community is utterly absurd. I do think guys in the church feel pressure to marry but not so much that it separates them from those same desires for and feelings of a need for adventure, experience, degrees, financial independence that non-LDS guys have. There are plenty of reasons LDS guys stay single past 30 rather than same gender attraction. My brother was 31 when he found his wife. Not gay. My sister was 27. Since LDS girls get a head start on guys on getting serious she must be a lesbian too.

Im not trying to be defensive but I cant get over how silly it all sounds.

BTW, im 26, LDS, male, and married as if that somehow makes my view less biased.

If we want to pursue the idea that somehow Steven being possibly gay is related to his disappearance, by all means, lets explore that. But lets let us draw that conclusion by doing more than thinking "He's over 30 = gay.".

You're part of an affinity group. You may actually know more about people outside that group (your religion), than you do about those who share your religion....know what I mean?

I'm 62, lapsed Protestant third-generation Utah Gentile, female, married 38 years....if that makes me less biased

 

[lost at sea]

I totally appreciate and respect your opinion. Yet I wonder if your position would be the same if we were discussing a 30+ LDS female.

I know older girls who are single and have spoken to them about it in the past. They all had different reasons they felt they were single. I suspected none of them to be homosexual.

I would not consider your personal situation to lead you to be biased. But the teachings of the Church of the LDS would probably cause most to see it differently. In my experience, I would say your brother is an exception. Wouldn't you?

Not in the slightest. My brother is VERY much alike to many of his friends who are still single. I know them personally. I dont suspect them of being in much different circumstances than he was. This is where we differ. We must know really different people.

Clearly, there are a number of situations that could have caused Steven to walk out of his life and into another. Being gay is definitely one of them and should not be overlooked - for any reason. IMO.

I wont disagree with you there. But basing that on age is lazy detective work. IMO

Easier to respond to your points with bold.

Layt: Id like to think I have enough friendships which transcend religious boundaries to know a wide variety of people and how they view the world. The LDS culture is difficult to understand from the outside. I think its easy to think you know how much or what type of pressure LDS guys feel to get married. Being one could make you feel different. Its not this crushing wave so many describe it to be. In fact, Ive never felt pressure from anyone I can recall to get married. Jokes, maybe, in passing. But never a serious converstion.

 

[higherpower]

you obviously have no experience in the Mormon community we marry in the faith and to be honest the good ones go early and a match is less likely as one get older. Some just choose not to marry early for the same reasons people out side the faith don't marry early. So to say that only Mormons that marry early are straight and all others are gay is a GROSS over generalization. According to your logic 50% of my Mormon friends are gay.

However if it is the case, that Steven is gay he doesn't have to run away. Mormons i know that have come out are still loved and accepted by there friends and family. Mormons as people are much more open minded than people give them credit.

Out of fear that this thread will become some sort of moral/theology debate and distract from the purpose of it, I concede.

is this detail so important that we must continually bring it up or is it just titillating to all of you that love the controversy over the LDS churches stance on homosexuality?

lets move on please and just say yes its possible he is gay but i dont think it a strong enough motive for him to disappear.

 

[lost at sea]

Yes, its possible. I dont lean that way either.

I think there are other more likely reasons he would walk away from his life. But then again I dont think even that is the case.

Foul play is my vote.

 

[Fairy1]

Easier to respond to your points with bold.

Layt: Id like to think I have enough friendships which transcend religious boundaries to know a wide variety of people and how they view the world. The LDS culture is difficult to understand from the outside. I think its easy to think you know how much or what type of pressure LDS guys feel to get married. Being one could make you feel different. Its not this crushing wave so many describe it to be. In fact, Ive never felt pressure from anyone I can recall to get married. Jokes, maybe, in passing. But never a serious converstion.

I'm not basing my position with regard to Steven completely on his age. And I also know a wide variety of people - many of which are LDS and many more who are not. I'm not LDS, but I was raised with many, many LDS kids and seriously considered converting in my youth. I know all about it. And BTW, LOTS of things can make people feel "different." I don't consider the LDS church's position on marrying and having children young to be a "crushing" wave. I married and had babies younger than you. But if I were a gay man, deeply involved in MY church, I do believe it would be a conundrum for me and it may very well have been for Steven. That may NOT be what we're dealing with here. But really, is it any more unbelievable than thinking Steven was running drugs or transporting illegal aliens? Sheesh. I didn't see any outrage when those theories were presented here. So what is the absolute worst-case scenario, in your opinion?

 

[lost at sea]

But if I were a gay man, deeply involved in MY church, I do believe it would be a conundrum for me and it may very well have been for Steven.
Valid. Certainly. If I were gay Id have a big problem being LDS and keeping that up.
That may very well NOT be what we're dealing with here. But really, is it any more unbelievable than thinking Steven was running drugs or transporting illegal aliens?
No, not really. But I can fit him moving something (youre right, probably not drugs or people) into what we already know. The gay thing I cant make fit. Doesnt touch all the bases.

So what is the absolute worst-case scenario, in your opinion?
Worst case, IMO, is that he got in over his head. He doesnt seem to be the kind of guy to be into trouble knowingly. He said something he shouldnt have. Maybe his principles prompted him not follow through on what he said he would and somebody got upset.

I think that the more time passes the more likely it will be somebody's hunch and perserverence that will bring to light new and interesting facts. No hunch is a bad hunch at this juncture.

 

[higherpower]

I'm not basing my position with regard to Steven completely on his age. And I also know a wide variety of people - many of which are LDS and many more who are not. I'm not LDS, but I was raised with many, many LDS kids and seriously considered converting in my youth. I know all about it. And BTW, LOTS of things can make people feel "different." I don't consider the LDS church's position on marrying and having children young to be a "crushing" wave. I married and had babies younger than you. But if I were a gay man, deeply involved in MY church, I do believe it would be a conundrum for me and it may very well have been for Steven. That may NOT be what we're dealing with here. But really, is it any more unbelievable than thinking Steven was running drugs or transporting illegal aliens? Sheesh. I didn't see any outrage when those theories were presented here. So what is the absolute worst-case scenario, in your opinion?

I think we are all considering the possibility and i have no qualms about what you just said. It's the over generalizations that taint the debate a bit.

 

[lost at sea]

Eh, we are all on the same page in that department more or less. At the very minimu we agree that homosexuality is an option. Lets move on in that, or other, directions...

 

[higherpower]

worst case scenario he's is running gay illegal immigrants and ran off with one.

 

[Fairy1]

is this detail so important that we must continually bring it up or is it just titillating to all of you that love the controversy over the LDS churches stance on homosexuality?

lets move on please and just say yes its possible he is gay but i dont think it a strong enough motive for him to disappear.

Did you purposely quote yourself here or are the quotes off?

In any case, NO, we should not "move on." It's a viable theory and I'm sure no one finds it "titillating." And yes, it's quite possible that, amongst other possibilties, this would have been enough for Steven to disappear. Do you know his family? Do you know if Steven truly felt he would not be accepted by family, friends or church if he were gay?

The Church of the LDS is not the only religion that would have a judgment against homosexuality. It just so happens that Steven Koecher is Mormon. Ya'll shouldn't take the speculation personally.

 

[Fairy1]

I think that the more time passes the more likely it will be somebody's hunch and perserverence that will bring to light new and interesting facts. No hunch is a bad hunch at this juncture.

Got in over his head doing what? What other possibilities are there other than what's already been discussed here?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

His cousin said that he didn't have any long term relationships? Could this be because of whatever he was doing did not allow for one? I would be crazy to be 30, especially in Utah, with a spouse or significant other...doesn't even sound like he was dating currently.

I would like to know if the meeting was in the morning or not. Most EQ meetings are before the block, and I thought the men were in the meeting when they called. Therefore, that would show that neither men made it.

Naegle - Can you find out how long the phone call was with Webb? Where he was when he was talking to Webb or those other men based on the cell phone records??? This might help make a map of his travels that night and day before he went to Anthem. Maybe he was near a hotel or something setting up "camp" or you might be able to figure out where he was sleeping on those nights he was gone...since he didn't have money.

Even though he was handing out fliers, that does not mean that it was a legitimate business. Can his boss tell you how much he has made in the month before he went missing? This would indicate if he was spending money on something or he might say that Steven was never available...meaning that he was busy doing "something" else. Can you get us some information on his boss and the business?

Has anyone offered a reward? Does anyone know how to go about this? My husband is willing to offer a reward to get me off this!!!

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

Neagle,

Any indication on when you can "spill the beans" on the information you are currently withholding????

Are the police actively pursuing other leads?

 

[renn3434]

Has anyone offered a reward? Does anyone know how to go about this? My husband is willing to offer a reward to get me off this!!!

My wife would also contribute to the fund for reward. I am driving her nuts. I want to help out and stay up to speed. I think we are on the right track.

 

[renn3434]

I know we/I've talked about him meeting someone where his car was left. I still believe that based on the fact that he waited until EXACTLY 12:00 to get of his car he went to a house. If you are meeting someone in a car they call you and let you know how far away they are or that they are just pulling up...... The other thing that I think supports this is why would you just not meet at an easier location in the same area? There is an Albertsons close by in one direction and a Walgreens/Wellsfargo in the other on Anthem Pkwy. If I was meeting someone in the area and they were going to jump in my car for a few hours (because Steven was still planning on going home teaching that night in St. George if I remember corrrectly) why try and lead him into a hard to find cul-de sac? I'm telling you he went to a home right near where his car was parked for a 12 pm appointment.

 

[dreamweaver]

IMO:
I like the K I S S theory. Keep it simple. Basic facts.

Have we learned one new thing since the start of this thread for Steven?
Yes.
1. Timeline
2. Coats and pillow in car, sleeps in car sometimes.
3. Has a very part time job.
4. Did not pay current rent or utilities.
5. Behind on car payment.
6. Going up and down the roadways.
7. Not planning on being in church on Sun.
8. Noon walk down the street.

Gay or not gay? We don't know.
I don't care unless it led to his disappearance.

Transporting illegal immigrants? No. IMO.
Drugs? Nope.

Does Steven have an appointment of some sort on Sun. 12/13/2009?
Yes. IMHO.

Did Steven leave the housing estates?
No. 85%.

Is Steven alive?
I want to say yes.

Here's my thinking:
We are lacking a key piece here.
There are several pieces of the puzzle that fell to the floor.

 

[SuziQ]

Since there are a ton of married men trolling for other men, I don't know how being LDS and single at age 30, can be a good indicator that a man is gay.

And no, married men trolling for other men is not just a Utah thing or LDS thing.

 

[ella's mom]

My husband is willing to offer a reward to get me off this!!!

This is my favorite quote of the day!!! LOL. My hubby would be right there with you.

 

[jbirddinky]

Good Morning Everyone! I hope we can all get some good information going on here today. Here are my thoughts for the day:

1. Ensure Sacramento, CA is aware of this case and is working towards finding Steven. (If he said to Annemarie's Parents' that he was planning on going there....I believe that he WAS indeed going there)

2. I finally saw the video of him in Henderson, NV. To me, it looks like the White, Very nice-looking, SUV w/ tinted windows was following him to make sure he showed up for his noon meeting on Evening Lights. Then, whomever was in the SUV picked Steven back up to ride together.

Steven looked like he was totally aware of his surroundings and had a reason to be there. His walk looked totally confident to me.

 

[lost at sea]

The SUV theory has been examined. The driver works for the home based mortgage company he pulled up in front of. I dont suspect any connection there.

Citizen: "His cousin said that he didn't have any long term relationships? Could this be because of whatever he was doing did not allow for one? I would be crazy to be 30, especially in Utah, with a spouse or significant other...doesn't even sound like he was dating currently."

I could see this if it weren't for the fact that he was 30. He had nine years to date girls long term. So that means that whatever is consuming his time consumed it from immediately after or soon after he got home from his mission. Thats fine but 9 years is a really long time to be doing whatever it was he would be doing and not draw any suspicion from family or friends.

Also, if whatever it was kept him from girls it probably would keep him from completing a degree, or a job, or family vacations, etc...