NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #12

[ThePhantom]

Sounds about right. I guess sometimes, escaping seems like the only answer. Now where did he "escape" to -- somewhere on this earth, or out of this paradigm altogether

 

[laytonian]

So here's the million dollar question: why do you think he went to Henderson?

We all "think" -- but none of us have earned the million dollars by knowing

 

[laytonian]

Sounds about right. I guess sometimes, escaping seems like the only answer. Now where did he "escape" to -- somewhere on this earth, or out of this paradigm altogether

The only place we're aware of, that he ever mentioned going to, was Sao Paulo, Brazil (where he'd served his LDS mission).

That would require a passport, which the family says was found on Feb 20th among his belongings (after initially being reported as unfound).

The odd thing is that when the family thought the passport was missing, they wanted to know how to check it being used "without involving the government".
Yet, if LE had called the State Department, they'd have been able to report it being used or not. They'd also be able to tell if the passport had been reported lost and a duplicated obtained.
I just don't understand why the State Department was seen as suspicious.

THEN again, there's always the possibility that he went to Ruby Valley to look for a ranch hand job at the N ranch.

 

[rd_jfc]

There's never been a mention of him using TH's truck or equipment.

If he was washing windows, all he'd need was a bucket, some cloths and a squeegee. All that would fit inside his vehicle.
The window blind cleaning equipment would be different, and I doubt he did that.

BUT.....it makes absolutely no sense for someone to "drum up" business two hours away from the business location, across state lines. Last time I paid for window washington, I paid $75.
If you have someone driving 240 miles round-trip, that's about 8 gallons of gas ($24 or so). That leaves $51. $4 worth of supplies, leaves $47. Now there's the cost of the flyers that generated that work (?), insurance and bonding, and the split between the boss and employee.

I don't think he went to Henderson to hand out flyers. If he did, why didn't he hand out flyers?

I am, however, suspicious of ANY business that uses flyers as a means to advertise. It seems shady, it's intrusive, it's litter ... and it's just suspicious.

A couple of things, laytonian. One, you're thinking of one job. A canvassing effort like that would be to generate multiple jobs, or if even one job continue canvassing after job is finished.

Is anyone really going to argue that there's enough market in St. George to occupy himself? Yes, enough windows. But enough paying customers on a continual basis? I seriously doubt it. Going to large wealthy suburbs only makes sense.

Equipment wise, I looked at web sites for startup window washing business. I guess if homes are all one story wouldn't need much of a ladder, but startups had pretty heavy equipment. Maybe not with this outfit. It helps to determine possibilities. Not having a truck and heavy equipment he needed to get from TH makes it more possible.

The handing out flyers, I will say that one could distribute out reams of paper. Was he actually doing that or door to door sales? Large copier size paper for the flyer might be more for a sales presentation, plus how would he get commission if he just left a piece of paper at a door?

More info that he operated differently would change my mind, but I'm not seeing it any differently than more of the same of drumming up business in the meantime.

How he managed to disappear even doing that isn't answered any easier though.

rd

 

[ThePhantom]

You can take the thought of the Christmas presents in his car as a signal that he intended to see his family -- then you ask the question, well, did he decide to leave because he just didn't want to face them after all, and if so, did he decide to end it all, or -- just leave the area altogether -- or -- was he in fact doing some kind of temporary/odd jobs and then met with foul play? Is it reasonable to think he could have started walking through that neighborhood and then just kept walking into -- where -- the desert? Or, alternatively, could he have been seeking a specific individual in those environs? Could we not have found evidence of such an individual on his computer? If he found an odd job there, wouldn't anyone of come forward already to say, "yes, I hired Stephen to distribute these fliers?"

 

[laytonian]

A couple of things, laytonian. One, you're thinking of one job. A canvassing effort like that would be to generate multiple jobs, or if even one job continue canvassing after job is finished.

Is anyone really going to argue that there's enough market in St. George to occupy himself? Yes, enough windows. But enough paying customers on a continual basis? I seriously doubt it. Going to large wealthy suburbs only makes sense.

I'll argue it.

Don't discount St George.
It's a resort area, between National Parks and in red rock country. Lots of money there.

How about Kayenta and its expensive homes and lots. We priced lots in Kayenta just last year, and some lots were more expensive than entire homes in SCA.

In fact, TH's parents live near Kayenta in Ivins (an older, less-expensive area), so TH would be very aware of the business opportunities surrounding him. There's even pricier, more glamorous areas nearer to St George (Santa Clara, for instance) that have long been popular.

In the St George area, the subdivisions are being built on high-priced, scenic land. Santa Clara has even pricier homes, nearer to town.

There's over 100,000 people in the St George area, which has long been a resort area (the LDS alternative to Vegas). People who work in Vegas and who can afford it, live in St George and commute.

I think people in the wealthy areas of St George would be more likely to pay for home cleaning, than in a retirement community -- where the newsletter already has advertising for local Henderson companies that serve SCA.

Equipment wise, I looked at web sites for startup window washing business. I guess if homes are all one story wouldn't need much of a ladder, but startups had pretty heavy equipment. Maybe not with this outfit. It helps to determine possibilities. Not having a truck and heavy equipment he needed to get from TH makes it more possible.

The handing out flyers, I will say that one could distribute out reams of paper. Was he actually doing that or door to door sales? Large copier size paper for the flyer might be more for a sales presentation, plus how would he get commission if he just left a piece of paper at a door?

More info that he operated differently would change my mind, but I'm not seeing it any differently than more of the same of drumming up business in the meantime.

How he managed to disappear even doing that isn't answered any easier though.

rd

He was passing out flyers, and since we know he was doing it during the day (when people are more likely to be at work), I don't think he was soliciting immediate jobs. He didn't seem to work evenings or weekends, because he was free to visit SLC a few times and drive down to (or at least as far as) Overton.

Remember, TH's phone number was on the flyers - which means that TH did the dispatching and billing. TH's dad is in construction; no need for fancy start-up stuff.

 

[laytonian]

You can take the thought of the Christmas presents in his car as a signal that he intended to see his family -- then you ask the question, well, did he decide to leave because he just didn't want to face them after all, and if so, did he decide to end it all, or -- just leave the area altogether -- or -- was he in fact doing some kind of temporary/odd jobs and then met with foul play?

To me, a confrontation would end in foul play -- but not some part-time job. He wasn't hiding the fact that he'd been driving around all week. He told people he was in Vegas (and the phone pings match).

Is it reasonable to think he could have started walking through that neighborhood and then just kept walking into -- where -- the desert?

I believe it's reasonable. SCA sits in the foothills, and one could park there and walk to the hills. The hills may look closer, but it's really only a couple of miles whether you walk through the golf course ... or along Anthem Parkway.

Or, alternatively, could he have been seeking a specific individual in those environs? Could we not have found evidence of such an individual on his computer? If he found an odd job there, wouldn't anyone of come forward already to say, "yes, I hired Stephen to distribute these fliers?"

Probably not, because distributing flyers in that area is against the HOA rules. Someone in the neighborhood would know that. Plus, no one got a flyer. The flyers found in the car, were not passed out in SCA.

His computer's been forensically searched, examined by a PI, and also by the family's computer techs (who, if they messed with anything, would leave traces found during forensics).

We know he used the library's computers; he could have searched for lots of things. He could have had a throwaway cell phone.

You do realize that you've just gone through the three main scenarios -- and that based on what's known, all are about equally sensible?

 

[hollyblue]

Sounds about right. I guess sometimes, escaping seems like the only answer. Now where did he "escape" to -- somewhere on this earth, or out of this paradigm altogether

Where ever his "escapades" took him. That would be the final answer wouldn't it...and would indeed solve the money maker.

 

[rd_jfc]

laytonian, of course there's got to be enough potential or TH wouldn't have started the business, but I'll argue someone is not going to limit themselves to St. George environs and not drive two hours to the Las Vegas market unless they're plenty busy already.

As for passing out flyers, no one has said they've seen flyers anywhere, so until I know more about how he operated I will say that it sounds to me like being paid commission for generating work and doing it, some kind of large split with TH for jobs. (Not saying how many jobs there might have been drummed up, maybe next to none, I have no idea.)

I also would not say trying to arrange immediate work, but rather an appointment for someone, not necessarily him.

The scenario that is unbelievable is some kind of leaving flyers on doors which would have to be scheduled and paid for by TH in the hopes that some would call and TH would then dispatch SK for what? well at this point it'd be minimal wage cleaning work, there's no reason for TH to pay someone a cut of the job at that point.

No, Steven had to be out there selling and almost surely unless we know otherwise upfronting the cost of the paper / printing / gas for commission sales. Ideally in that situation you generate enough work that minimal wage workers do the cleaning while you spend fuill time selling, but in the interim you do the cleaning too, imo that's how it would work.

And paper / printing is expensive, and you just don't go leaving full sheets of paper everywhere and then on top of that not really having a commission sale. So I wouldn't expect SK to be leaving this flyers at homes where he didn't talk to someone.

More info otherwise would prove me wrong though.

As for the phone number on the flyer, you have to have a legitimate BBB type business for people to call if they want because of repair scams etc. Door to door sales is dicey at best but obviously next to impossible as an individual rather than a representative of a company you can call.

It would help a great deal if TH ever explained what SK was doing to shed light on what he might be doing in Henderson, or for example shed enough light that we know it couldn't be related to his job even though his front seat has flyers and he walked away from the car with something under his arm.

rd

 

[dovebar]

A new death in the Anthem neighborhood. Specialists being interviewed about it on television called the Henderson police "very good" investigators.

http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12461129

 

[laytonian]

On Steven's NAMUS page HERE:

NCIC number M058555154
NCMEC number
Date LKA December 12, 2009 - 10:28

We know neighbor JS reported SK pulled out of the driveway about 20-30 minutes after 10:00pm..... but 10:28?

Whether that's morning or evening, that's a pretty definite time.
I don't remember seeing it listed that way before (date yes, time no).

 

[rd_jfc]

Interesting, laytonian. Makes me wonder about how the exact time was determined / remembered.

I guess with next contact being early next morning with phone call, and landlords weren't there until Monday night it seems, no reason to think anything other than came back, got up next morning, and drove to Vegas as he says where he is next morning. That'd be an early rise and drive though. He is saying he's in Vegas at 7 or 8 in the morning?

Maybe he didn't come back.

rd

 

[grayjay]

A new death in the Anthem neighborhood. Specialists being interviewed about it on television called the Henderson police "very good" investigators.

http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12461129

An autopsy has been conducted and Henderson Police are remaining tight-lipped as they continue their investigation.

I'm very curious about what turns up here. Extremely remote possibility it could be connected, but still.

 

[laytonian]

I'm very curious about what turns up here. Extremely remote possibility it could be connected, but still.

Her father's first reaction was suicide, but then said something was "strange". There's no sign of injury or bodily harm, and toxicology will be done in 4-6 weeks.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

You can take the thought of the Christmas presents in his car as a signal that he intended to see his family -- then you ask the question, well, did he decide to leave because he just didn't want to face them after all, and if so, did he decide to end it all, or -- just leave the area altogether -- or -- was he in fact doing some kind of temporary/odd jobs and then met with foul play? Is it reasonable to think he could have started walking through that neighborhood and then just kept walking into -- where -- the desert? Or, alternatively, could he have been seeking a specific individual in those environs? Could we not have found evidence of such an individual on his computer? If he found an odd job there, wouldn't anyone of come forward already to say, "yes, I hired Stephen to distribute these fliers?"

The "Christmas presents" are also speculation...there is nothing to confirm that they were actually that, and not just a random purchase to get him on video alive or on bank records showing a purchase. Or for that matter a way to steal something more valuable. At this point anything could be a possibility.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm very curious about what turns up here. Extremely remote possibility it could be connected, but still.

I agree, I think it's quite discerning that in 5 months, in the Anthem Sub vicinity they have had 2 disappear and now one dead. Maybe no connection but,:waitasec:

I found this addy for her:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...102335&sspn=0.02137,0.038409&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=15

 

[laytonian]

The "Christmas presents" are also speculation...there is nothing to confirm that they were actually that, and not just a random purchase to get him on video alive or on bank records showing a purchase. Or for that matter a way to steal something more valuable. At this point anything could be a possibility.

Absolutely.

SK's father said they stopped by Mesquite and St George to look at security videos -- and since the Kmart receipt was in the bag, certainly they stopped by Kmart.
Early reports said that the Mesquite security video was no longer available, but we never heard a peep about Kmart. Were the Kmart videos not available? If they were, is he definitely identifiable on the video, was he with someone or not, or he's not the person who made the purchase?

Where did he go, between making the Kmart purchase and being ID'd by neighbor JS about 10pm, pulling IN to the driveway?

I still believe there should be a search of the area around his home. That wash/river, those hills. There's so much hinkiness with this case, why are certain things taken for granted?

 

[RubyRed]

I do not feel there is a connection to the Erica Blasberg death. jmo

 

[laytonian]

I do not feel there is a connection to the Erica Blasberg death. jmo

Me, neither.

ETA:
I saw a "Zirkle" arrest in our county today...but it's not JRZ.

 

[Fairy1]

Absolutely.

SK's father said they stopped by Mesquite and St George to look at security videos -- and since the Kmart receipt was in the bag, certainly they stopped by Kmart.
Early reports said that the Mesquite security video was no longer available, but we never heard a peep about Kmart. Were the Kmart videos not available? If they were, is he definitely identifiable on the video, was he with someone or not, or he's not the person who made the purchase?

Where did he go, between making the Kmart purchase and being ID'd by neighbor JS about 10pm, pulling IN to the driveway?

I still believe there should be a search of the area around his home. That wash/river, those hills. There's so much hinkiness with this case, why are certain things taken for granted?

We did hear a peep about the K-Mart surveillance tape - from Naegle. Didn't we discuss this recently? I think Naegle said something along the lines of they didn't think it was necessary. I'm too tired to go back and look!

And me three! I don't believe the golfer's case is related to Steven either.