NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #15

[laytonian]

Metallica played Mandalay Bay December 5, 2009, Nephi ID on December 7,

Boise, ID.

Dec 5 Las Vegas, NV Mandalay Bay
Dec 7 Boise, ID Idaho Center
Dec 8 Sacramento, CA ARCO Arena

NOW......with Metallica playing in Sacramento at ARCO arena, it would seem logical for Steven to drive in that direction on Dec 8th. But according to his mother and TH, he worked that day. (That's why the two moms, not us, moved that drive to Dec 9th in the first place, before the temple visit became known.)

It would obviously make sense, if he wanted to see Metallica, to go to Vegas on Dec 5th. But he did work for Paul Doxey's own band that evening, so that's off the table, too.

and in Sacramento December 8, with Machine Head opening for them.

His list doesn't include Megadeth, but considering the others, he might well have liked them. And Megadeth played House of Blues December 13, 2009. Yes, a Sunday night concert. Doors opened at 5:45, according to this review: http://metalassault.com/Live_Reviews/121309_Megadeth.php. Machine Head had been opening for Megadeth through November and December but it doesn't look like they were there for the December 13 gig. (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/news/Machine-Head-Tour-Dates-with-Megadeth-Metallica-20519.aspx)

Vertical Horizon (Neill Peart from Rush) and Collective Soul played LV over the summer, earlier than our time frame. Eve 6 played on New Year's eve, after Steven was already missing.

So I wonder how roadies, who are employed BY a band, are allowed to work in unionized Nevada?

I guess we're speculating about him leaving as a roadie, or having linked up with that scene with some kind of job to pay his way -- so working IN Vegas as a roadie wouldn't matter.

 

[laytonian]

Well, if he hasn't finished paying off the car, and he leaves with it, that's probably approaching grand theft. If he leaves it, then he's not committing any crime in leaving and LE won't be looking for him.

It could be considered theft, but do we think he'd realize that? Is that the policy with a car loan, that you can't move the car from its registered address, without notifying the loan company?

If so, I wonder if he did that when he moved to St George.

 

[carbuff]

Boise, ID.

Dec 5 Las Vegas, NV Mandalay Bay
Dec 7 Boise, ID Idaho Center
Dec 8 Sacramento, CA ARCO Arena

NOW......with Metallica playing in Sacramento at ARCO arena, it would seem logical for Steven to drive in that direction on Dec 8th. But according to his mother and TH, he worked that day. (That's why the two moms, not us, moved that drive to Dec 9th in the first place, before the temple visit became known.)

It would obviously make sense, if he wanted to see Metallica, to go to Vegas on Dec 5th. But he did work for Paul Doxey's own band that evening, so that's off the table, too.


So I wonder how roadies, who are employed BY a band, are allowed to work in unionized Nevada?

I guess we're speculating about him leaving as a roadie, or having linked up with that scene with some kind of job to pay his way -- so working IN Vegas as a roadie wouldn't matter.

Well, no, I was thinking more in terms of hooking up with somebody who's a roadie or a groupie of one of the bands he likes.

 

[carbuff]

It could be considered theft, but do we think he'd realize that? Is that the policy with a car loan, that you can't move the car from its registered address, without notifying the loan company?

If so, I wonder if he did that when he moved to St George.

It's not a matter of the address, it's a question of whether he's making payments.

If he takes the car and doesn't make payments, it's theft.

If he leaves the car, he's clear on that -- and can't be traced through it. One explanation for leaving the car where it was is that he knew it would get back to his parents that way, and they'd take care of it.

 

[laytonian]

Well, no, I was thinking more in terms of hooking up with somebody who's a roadie or a groupie of one of the bands he likes.

Yeah....that's pretty much what I was speculating about: meeting someone at a venue, seeing the transient free-wheeling lifestyle as attractive, and taking off.

But if it's associated with a band, I see him as having to work at one of those jobs, rather than having someone support him. How much money do groupies and roadies make? Enough to support a freeloader on the side? Don't they tour with the bus, paid for by the band? (Would the band pay for a freeloader's room and board??)

Just curious.
It doesn't have to be a band; just someone who isn't tied down.

 

[jokie7348]

I read Steven's thread every day, sometimes multiple times a day. I posted a little early on, but I have been totally stymied by his disappearance. I want Laytonian to know that I am impressed with your dedication to Steven and this thread. You are always here, posting, waiting. Please know that you, Steven and his family are in my prayers and thoughts every day.

 

[ThePhantom]

Wait, wait! The Phantom is extra slow today, alas. Break it down for me -- is the thought that Steven was also using drugs, or just with someone who did. In any case, why did they have to kill the poor guy? I'm still one beat shy of the rhythm with this.

 

[gsmith]

I modeled a cross section from evening lights to the mall ring circle. There were towers in that area that pinged in the afternoon.

In Google earth I drew a straight line from evening lights to that mall area. I then recorded the elevations given by Google earth along that line in intervals of 0.5 miles, starting at the where Steve disappears from sight in the video and ending just a bit west of the mall.

First, in Autocad I drew a circle the size of the earth. Second, I zoomed in and placed my measured elevation values along 9 miles of the earth sized circle. Third, I placed a 100 foot tower at one end of my drawing at the elevation representing the mall circle. Fourth, I drew a line from the top of that tower to the other end of my drawing 6 feet above (representing Steve's approximate height) the elevation measured at evening lights.

That signal/line ran into ground within a mile of the tower. I had to draw an 800 foot tower to be able to barely clear the miles and miles of terrain with a straight line.

I'll post the drawing on Monday.

Here is the plot I made. It should be attached to this post in pdf format. You'll have to rotate it.

Also please go to:

http://www.arcx.com/sites/faq.htm#ResidentialAreas

Read "Why is service so bad in tall buildings" of that page. It explains why I think most of his pings were very close to his position, especially since as far as I know his phone was a GSM type.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah....that's pretty much what I was speculating about: meeting someone at a venue, seeing the transient free-wheeling lifestyle as attractive, and taking off.

But if it's associated with a band, I see him as having to work at one of those jobs, rather than having someone support him. How much money do groupies and roadies make? Enough to support a freeloader on the side? Don't they tour with the bus, paid for by the band? (Would the band pay for a freeloader's room and board??)

Just curious.
It doesn't have to be a band; just someone who isn't tied down.

As far as bands go -- it varies.

Established bands usually have a bunch of people following them around from venue to venue, for a few gigs or the entire tour. Some of them are wannabes with money and others are bums. Sometimes the wannabes take on the freeloaders as "posse." The band members often have posses. Some of the groups are communal -- sleeping in a van or sharing a tent or what have you. The Grateful Dead's followers are known for that.

I know Metallica has a pretty sizable entourage following them around. I don't know what its culture is, though.

It occurs to me as I type this that Steven was a fairly good-sized guy. He might have been able to get a job as security.

 

[laytonian]

As far as bands go -- it varies.

Established bands usually have a bunch of people following them around from venue to venue, for a few gigs or the entire tour. Some of them are wannabes with money and others are bums. Sometimes the wannabes take on the freeloaders as "posse." The band members often have posses. Some of the groups are communal -- sleeping in a van or sharing a tent or what have you. The Grateful Dead's followers are known for that.

I know Metallica has a pretty sizable entourage following them around. I don't know what its culture is, though.

It occurs to me as I type this that Steven was a fairly good-sized guy. He might have been able to get a job as security.

I'd think he could.

But Metallica's been on the overseas portion of their tour since January 19th -- so that would require a passport. I don't think Metallica would risk taking along someone with fake papers; that could get them all on the "no-fly list".

 

[carbuff]

I'd think he could.

But Metallica's been on the overseas portion of their tour since January 19th -- so that would require a passport. I don't think Metallica would risk taking along someone with fake papers; that could get them all on the "no-fly list".

I wasn't thinking of Metallica -- Megadeth is the one who had the Dec. 13th gig. They had two leadin bands who are apparently regional favorites (Arcanium and Warbringer, from Ventura CA, according to http://metalassault.com/Live_Reviews/121309_Megadeth.php).

Skipping church to go to a heavy metal concert is probably enough to account for the slightly embarrassed way the elders reacted to talking about why Steven was in Vegas. Assuming they knew. Assuming his interest in hard rock/metal extended to this band.

 

[laytonian]

I wasn't thinking of Metallica -- Megadeth is the one who had the Dec. 13th gig. They had two leadin bands who are apparently regional favorites (Arcanium and Warbringer, from Ventura CA, according to http://metalassault.com/Live_Reviews/121309_Megadeth.php).

Skipping church to go to a heavy metal concert is probably enough to account for the slightly embarrassed way the elders reacted to talking about why Steven was in Vegas. Assuming they knew. Assuming his interest in hard rock/metal extended to this band.

He wouldn't have to skip church to go to the House of Blues (Mandalay Bay), because the concert started at 5:45pm.

BUT....the location is within the general area of the Dec 13th afternoon phone pings.

 

[carbuff]

He wouldn't have to skip church to go to the House of Blues (Mandalay Bay), because the concert started at 5:45pm.

BUT....the location is within the general area of the Dec 13th afternoon phone pings.

He'd have had to leave early, if services run until 4. He might have thought it was better to not go at all.

Not to mention the likelihood he was going to some kind of pre-party.

ETA: Or even more likely, wanted to get in line early.

 

[laytonian]

He'd have had to leave early, if services run until 4. He might have thought it was better to not go at all.

Not to mention the likelihood he was going to some kind of pre-party.

ETA: Or even more likely, wanted to get in line early.

Very good points.

 

[hoppyfrog]

No immature bickering, peeps.

For that matter, no mature bickering either.

No bickering, period.

Hoppy
mod

 

[Fairy1]

He'd have had to leave early, if services run until 4. He might have thought it was better to not go at all.

Not to mention the likelihood he was going to some kind of pre-party.

ETA: Or even more likely, wanted to get in line early.

You still have to wonder, though, what the heck happened to him AFTER the concert?

If he had planned to return to St. George, why on earth would he park so far away from the concert venue? Is it possible the person with whom he went to the concert lived in SCA?

If he planned to run off with the band or a fellow follower of the band, it couldn't have been someone he had just met at that concert that night. There had to have been prior contact and plan of some kind or he wouldn't have parked so far away.

I think the possibility of him taking off with a band is plausible. Not being familiar with the "Deadhead" mentality, I'm just not sure how it works!

 

[laytonian]

I think the possibility of him taking off with a band is plausible. Not being familiar with the "Deadhead" mentality, I'm just not sure how it works!

IF something like this took place, I see it more as a way to earn a living while avoiding hassles and responsibilities. If you don't care who you associate with, there's lots of possibilities.

But it seems Steven DID care; it seems funny he'd run off "to be a roadie", when his Salt Lake Tribune coworkers were "too worldly". KWIM?

Have we discussed this angle on the courier idea?
1 - Steven's hired to make deliveries and collect payments.
2 - At some point, he realizes he's involved in major crime.
3 - He also realizes he has a large amount of someone's money (cash).
4 - He decides, for self-preservation and an escape, to take the money.
5 - He pays cash for a car, and buys himself an iPhone or other smartphone.
6 - He parks his old car in a hidden, safe place.
7 - Using the new phone, he calls a cab to pick him up and take him to where the "new" car is parked.
8 - He drives away in the "new" car, with a substantial amount of money.
9 - He keeps his old phone, and checks VM occasionally until it goes dead, to see who's looking for him.

It explains how/why he left, why he's not surfaced (fear/shame), and how he could be living fairly comfortably, elsewhere.
IF something like this took place, I'll bet one or two people were REALLY trying to call him for days afterwards.

I dunno. Probably the plot of some stupid dream I had last week.

 

[Fairy1]

IF something like this took place, I see it more as a way to earn a living while avoiding hassles and responsibilities. If you don't care who you associate with, there's lots of possibilities.

But it seems Steven DID care; it seems funny he'd run off "to be a roadie", when his Salt Lake Tribune coworkers were "too worldly". KWIM?

Have we discussed this angle on the courier idea?
1 - Steven's hired to make deliveries and collect payments.
2 - At some point, he realizes he's involved in major crime.
3 - He also realizes he has a large amount of someone's money (cash).
4 - He decides, for self-preservation and an escape, to take the money.
5 - He pays cash for a car, and buys himself an iPhone or other smartphone.
6 - He parks his old car in a hidden, safe place.
7 - Using the new phone, he calls a cab to pick him up and take him to where the "new" car is parked.
8 - He drives away in the "new" car, with a substantial amount of money.
9 - He keeps his old phone, and checks VM occasionally until it goes dead, to see who's looking for him.

It explains how/why he left, why he's not surfaced (fear/shame), and how he could be living fairly comfortably, elsewhere.
IF something like this took place, I'll bet one or two people were REALLY trying to call him for days afterwards.

I dunno. Probably the plot of some stupid dream I had last week.

LOVE IT!!! It's perfect. Explains everything nicely and has a (mostly) happy ending.

A truly clever crime boss would not continue calling Steven's phone, IMO. They would have realized fairly quickly that the phone was no longer with it's owner.

I still would prefer that some connection be made by investigators as to whose money Steven may have run off. Likely, that person would be looking for Steven much harder than we are, with better resources and a few more clues!

 

[RubyRed]

E) Steve died between the hours of 6pm and 3am 12/14 in the vicinity of Whitney Ranch Dr, Between E Russell Rd and W Sunset.

sbbm

Why do you feel this is the time frame?

I suspected they (Unknown person from St.George and the "Kid" from the Anthem neighborhood) waited till about 7am in the morning in order to "blend with the traffic" heading North on 515 to drive back to St.George disposing Steve's body along the I 15 highway. But before the 7am departure, the unknown person from St.George used Steve's phone to delete all Texts and messages and histories that might of been left by him, and then smashed and disposed the phone. After dropping the unknown person at St.George, the Anthem "kid" resident returned to the Anthem residence.

Who do you think the St George connection is?

I might of left parts out .... But, If anybody has any questions, I will provide my reasoning behind my theory of Steve's disappearance.

I would like to hear your theory.

EXACTLY. Thank you for confirming my suspicion, that Steve was with another person on the Salt Lake trip, and the Vegas Trip. That all communication was done with that "other persons phone", the one Steve was "working for" as a "taxi driver"

Why do you think he was with someone else and what makes you think he was working as a taxi driver.

Actually, Its from First Hand Experience.

What kind of first hand experience and how close is this first hand experience?

 

[laytonian]

LOVE IT!!! It's perfect. Explains everything nicely and has a (mostly) happy ending.

A truly clever crime boss would not continue calling Steven's phone, IMO. They would have realized fairly quickly that the phone was no longer with it's owner.

I still would prefer that some connection be made by investigators as to whose money Steven may have run off. Likely, that person would be looking for Steven much harder than we are, with better resources and a few more clues!

....or minimal resources, because they either don't want to bring attention to themselves, or don't have many resources.
I'm not thinking "crime boss". I'm thinking of someone who may have also needed money quickly.

ETA:
It's just more speculation, based on what we've discussed before with a couple of extra details thrown in. Not sure about a happy ending, though. After our "hero" drives off into the sunset, we don't know what comes next....