NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #20

[Fairy1]

That also depends on having other group to identify with. There a good number of websites which focus on reacting to crises of faith with testimonies from people for whom the crisis wouldn't be alleviated by going inactive and display a lot of manic behavior....you know....like driving around the like he's orbiting some invisible planet.

So, do you believe Steven sought salvation in Las Vegas?

 

[Weygand]

So, do you believe Steven sought salvation in Las Vegas?

Honestly, I think he was disillusioned with faith as he knew it altogether and Vegas was the fork in the road toward his moving on. To paraphrase Churchill, it was the end of the new beginning for him. In Vegas he met an unknown entity who was mentoring or fostering his plan and from there he disappeared from his life as SK.

I don't see that it would take Las Vegas for him to find salvation as that is a personal experience. George Foreman had his in a dressing room..Kerry Livgren had his backstage after a Kansas show so that sort of personal revelation doesn't require irony (meaning salvation in Sin City) as much as it does the desire for achieving salvation (real or perceived).

I think his being in LV had more to do with transition than salvation.

 

[Sin City]

On another topic: I have a question for anyone.

So, say that Steven met with a bad guy, and this bad guy happen to follow Websleuths. And, this bad guy actually joined in, and made a post. Would the PI or LE have access to the IP address to learn this person's identity? Is this possible?

And, if so would this mean that the PI is able to learn the identity of all of us posters?

I'm just curious. Plus, when I was at the search the PI said to me, "You're from Websleuths aren't you?" I said, "Yes." He said, "I recognize you." How could this be, as this was the first time I'd ever seen the PI?

The only thing I can think of is that he was able to check my IP address from Websleuths, and then pull my DMV record in order to see my photo.

 

[Fairy1]

Honestly, I think he was disillusioned with faith as he knew it altogether and Vegas was the fork in the road toward his moving on. To paraphrase Churchill, it was the end of the new beginning for him. In Vegas he met an unknown entity who was mentoring or fostering his plan and from there he disappeared from his life as SK.

I don't see that it would take Las Vegas for him to find salvation as that is a personal experience. George Foreman had his in a dressing room..Kerry Livgren had his backstage after a Kansas show so that sort of personal revelation doesn't require irony (meaning salvation in Sin City) as much as it does the desire for achieving salvation (real or perceived).

I think his being in LV had more to do with transition than salvation.

I have been a proponent of the idea Steven became disillusioned and walked away. I just can't figure out why he would have come to Vegas. And I cannot reconcile his leaving his family wondering....

 

[hollyblue]

Just wanted to say I'm glad to see the newbies breathing new breath into SK's case. Your all doing a fantasic job with your thoughts, discussions and theories. Interesting. Stay with it...and thank you.

Lady Leo....It's nice to see someone else who finds truths within FSA. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of communication to go by or many posts of the key players to get a base for deceptions; but agree AN was holding back some info per her post--and doesn't necessarily mean she was doing so to throw infomation.

 

[jmarple]

I know lots of Jack Mormons. They just quit going to church.
Formally leaving the LDS church is quite a process, but the inactives just kinda let their status be known, and meld with a different group.

Actually, the person leaving the LDS church only needs to write a letter to his bishop (or her bishop) and ask that his name be removed from church records. The bishop forwards that letter to Salt Lake City general authorities and it's done.

 

[Weygand]

On another topic: I have a question for anyone.

So, say that Steven met with a bad guy, and this bad guy happen to follow Websleuths. And, this bad guy actually joined in, and made a post. Would the PI or LE have access to the IP address to learn this person's identity? Is this possible?

And, if so would this mean that the PI is able to learn the identity of all of us posters?

I'm just curious. Plus, when I was at the search the PI said to me, "You're from Websleuths aren't you?" I said, "Yes." He said, "I recognize you." How could this be, as this was the first time I'd ever seen the PI?

The only thing I can think of is that he was able to check my IP address from Websleuths, and then pull my DMV record in order to see my photo.

Highly unlikely because (without going into too much detail) an IP address is leased to a MAC address. Furthermore if you have some sort of home LAN or WLAN an IP could merely be the gateway for at least 1 and potentially thousands of people.

And frankly if the DMV was tracking our IPs, that would be unusually competent for people I once used a baptism certificate to fool into issuing me a fake ID.

 

[Sin City]

That also depends on having other group to identify with. There a good number of websites which focus on reacting to crises of faith with testimonies from people for whom the crisis wouldn't be alleviated by going inactive and display a lot of manic behavior....you know....like driving around the like he's orbiting some invisible planet.

How would Steven go about finding this "other group", or someone to help him transition into a new life without leaving tracks?

I know this sort of thing has been done before, yet I wouldn't know the first thing about trying to accomplish this.

Or, did someone possibly approach him to encourage him to join their group?

 

[jmarple]

http://lds.org/study/topics/suicide?lang=eng&query=suicide

LDS view on suicide.

 

[hollyblue]

On another topic: I have a question for anyone.

So, say that Steven met with a bad guy, and this bad guy happen to follow Websleuths. And, this bad guy actually joined in, and made a post. Would the PI or LE have access to the IP address to learn this person's identity? Is this possible?

And, if so would this mean that the PI is able to learn the identity of all of us posters?

I'm just curious. Plus, when I was at the search the PI said to me, "You're from Websleuths aren't you?" I said, "Yes." He said, "I recognize you." How could this be, as this was the first time I'd ever seen the PI?

The only thing I can think of is that he was able to check my IP address from Websleuths, and then pull my DMV record in order to see my photo.

I would hope it would require a warrant--- and not every Tom, Dick and Harry of a PI to have access to WS's confidential information. You might want to pose that question to the mods or admin here. Hopefully, it is something they wouldn't take lightly.

I would have asked him precisely how he knew who I was. Are you automatically a POI because you join a discussion forum or partake in a search? JMO

 

[Weygand]

I have been a proponent of the idea Steven became disillusioned and walked away. I just can't figure out why he would have come to Vegas. And I cannot reconcile his leaving his family wondering....

1. Vegas airports probably fly more places than SLC
2. Vegas not too far from Southern California

In summary, if this was a coordinated effort then maybe whomever he was meeting told him to meet in LV. If he was going solo, you can fly or drive to anonymity from LV.

As far as reconciling the family, I think you're projecting; understandably so because I think the same thing.....how does he just leave his family....

Again.....I don't know, but whatever his plan it seems like the move to St George was his goodbye and, for whatever reason, no one knew the frequency he was broadcasting on....

 

[Sin City]

I would hope it would require a warrant--- and not every Tom, Dick and Harry of a PI to have access to WS's confidential information. You might want to pose that question to the mods or admin here. Hopefully, it is something they wouldn't take lightly.

I would have asked him precisely how he knew who I was. Are you automatically a POI because you join a discussion forum or partake in a search? JMO

Fairy, I was shocked that the PI said this to me, but I didn't really care, as I have nothing to hide. This was my first thought, and once I began thinking his statement over....this is when it began to bug me.

Even if the PI had checked my license plates, then identity, & then if I had a record he still wouldn't have recognized me, as I'd never met him. Unless it was merely a mind game, and he was weeding me out as a poi. lol

I'll have to ask my Henderson LE friend to get his thoughts on this situation.

 

[Weygand]

How would Steven go about finding this "other group", or someone to help him transition into a new life without leaving tracks?

You don't. However that doesn't mean the tracks are easily discovered. I think the move to St George was part of his obfuscation.

I know this sort of thing has been done before, yet I wouldn't know the first thing about trying to accomplish this.

Or, did someone possibly approach him to encourage him to join their group?

Quite possibly...and really here is where I begin grasping at straws; assuming he didn't do himself, and I don't think he did, I don't know enough about his intellectual curiosities, assuming he had some, to begin to formulate the end game of his transition. For all we know he read Mutiny on The Bounty as a youth and the South Pacific has been some Lorelei he used as a mental and then actual haven of solitude following his abandonment of the life which he felt was better elsewhere.

I think we're both on a parallel path here which makes me feel good for not defaulting to a sinister conclusion (NTTAWWT)

 

[Sin City]

You don't. However that doesn't mean the tracks are easily discovered. I think the move to St George was part of his obfuscation.



Quite possibly...and really here is where I begin grasping at straws; assuming he didn't do himself, and I don't think he did, I don't know enough about his intellectual curiosities, assuming he had some, to begin to formulate the end game of his transition. For all we know he read Mutiny on The Bounty as a youth and the South Pacific has been some Lorelei he used as a mental and then actual haven of solitude following his abandonment of the life which he felt was better elsewhere.

I think we're both on a parallel path here which makes me feel good for not defaulting to a sinister conclusion (NTTAWWT)

I've always believed that Steven met with someone who caused him harm. There isn't any evidence of this, but this is what I believed.

Your posts are very thought provoking, so I'm sitting on the fence at this time.

 

[Weygand]

http://lds.org/study/topics/suicide?lang=eng&query=suicide

LDS view on suicide.

I think suicide is the wrong path. Moving to a smaller town thus complicating prospects for income means either he was winding down his life (which again I don't know the guy from anything more substantial than discovery id and the 15 months I have been lurking here reading other case threads) but was going to leave his family with his corpse and mounting debt or he thought moving to a small town would provide some purpose other than serious commute time for commuting's sake.

I'm not sure who said it and I hate going back to it continually but his move to St George is launch sequence or at least a test run for something other than ignominy.

 

[Weygand]

I've always believed that Steven met with someone who caused him harm. There isn't any evidence of this, but this is what I believed.

Your posts are very thought provoking, so I'm sitting on the fence at this time.

I thought you were in the disillusionment camp. Nothing wrong with changing your mind though. I have no clue what happened to him. Hopefully he is enjoying a new life somewhere, but the nihilism of not so much as an FOAD note explaining his fate to his family is an omen of a tragic ending, whatever the path it took.

EDIT: My apologies for confusing your comments with Fairy1's. I'll not be that rude again.

 

[hollyblue]

I thought you were in the disillusionment camp. Nothing wrong with changing your mind though. I have no clue what happened to him. Hopefully he is enjoying a new life somewhere, but the nihilism of not so much as an FOAD note explaining his fate to his family is an omen of a tragic ending, whatever the path it took.

EDIT: My apologies for confusing your comments with Fairy1's. I'll not be that rude again.

:whoosh:

 

[fridaybaker]

Does anyone know how much it generally costs to get set up with new ID -I guess what we'd call "fake ID"? I mean in the "real world" vs. TV, which is generally where I get most of my ideas about such things. (On TV, by the way, it must be really easy and really cheap because everyone seem to do it!)

 

[fridaybaker]

Also, the comment to GW on the phone that he would return for the meeting that day if needed would fit the scenario: Several months ideation about leaving his life for another one, then slowly carrying it out -maybe long drives were his method for thinking and finalizing his "readiness"; he's found a way to acquire fake ID (he'd probably persue this away from St. George and somewhere near LV seems a likely place); he was to meet the person for the ID at SCA. He'd arranged it via internet at the library or made some inquiries face to face in LV.

However, when GW called, he offered to go back if needed -he knew he could put off actually picking up the ID for a couple of hours later than the appointed time of noon. This would fit in with his not wanting anything to seem amiss for his friends or family at this time - and would explain why he answered the call at all, vs. not responding to other people who wouldn't raise any flags if he didn't immediately get back to them, like his friend from TX.)

What he wanted to avoid was someone mentioning to a family member or friend in the next day or so that SK was in LV and couldn't even make it back to fill in for GW at church? His family would wonder "what's going on with SK?". They would recognize this as very much an anomoly for SK. In this situation, he would have wanted as little interest as possible in him and his activities for at least a few days to put distance between him and his old life.

(I guess the main problem w/ this is that how would he have gotten in touch with the "ID person" to ask for a later meeting time if he'd avoided using his cell phone previously. Hmmm.) I'm not convinced, though, that this situation couldn't have been the case.

Or, as has been said here a few times already, he could have just said it thinking that when GW realized that he was in LV he knew GW wouldn't press him. Either way, it seems to fit to me.

Also, w/ regard to his purchasing family-sized peanut butter, etc., before he split, and the fact that he obviously didn't pack much -these can fit in with the voluntary disappearance as well: It's just like the crazy driving episode leading up to it: He's going back and forth in his mind and finally, just decides to do it. The many, many seeming contradictions are a reflection of a period of indecision (vs. restlessness or something else) before his departure.

Any thoughts?

 

[sophieness]

I don't see mormonism as religion one has to change their name or identity to escape from. he lived down in a relatively private place, if he wanted to drift away from the church he could have done it relatively easily without his family knowing. instead, we have someone who made church activities a priority all the way up until the week he went missing. and just a few days before went to ward temple night. why would he do that? it doesn't make sense to me. everything about him, says that the LDS religion was important to him.

I strongly believe that the reasons for his disappearance were financial at their root. whether suicide, or whether he got mixed up with something or someone dangerous to make money. he'd never given indication of ambivalance towards the LDS religion that I know of. and as someone who comes from a family with a long history of seasonal affective disorder, I can see him wanting to move to a place with sunnier and warmer winters. I think steven had a history of depression, which he had trouble admitting to and his family had trouble seeing because it may represent a "flaw" they didn't want to admit. I think he felt overly dependent on his parents as well (he was living with them again and approaching 30) so his move to st. george was to try to prove his independence. when he felt like he was failing there, it must have been devastating to him.