NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

[Fairy1]

You believe the Southern Highlands' remains have a greater chance on being Steven's than the ones in Las Vegas Bay?

Oh yes.

 

[MarioM]

Oh yes.

Hmmm.... I don't know what was found in Southern Highlands, but what makes you think that those may be Steven's remains?

 

[Fairy1]

Hmmm.... I don't know what was found in Southern Highlands, but what makes you think that those may be Steven's remains?

Geographically, it makes more sense than Lake Mead. To me, anyway.

The SH remains story is here, in the threads. I think they were found in February. Will try to find the reference...

ETA - early reference:

http://www.lvrj.com/news/human-bones-found-in-desert-115303644.html

 

[MarioM]

Geographically, it makes more sense than Lake Mead. To me, anyway.

The SH remains story is here, in the threads. I think they were found in February. Will try to find the reference...

Well, since you believe the Southern Heights remains may be of Steven because they make more sense geographically, then how are his cell phone pings in northern Henderson explained?

 

[Fairy1]

Well, since you believe the Southern Heights remains may be of Steven because they make more sense geographically, then how are his cell phone pings in northern Henderson explained?

Let me make my position clear...I have been a believer that Steven walked away - and I continue to look for him every day.

That said, if Steven was a murder victim, there was a MURDERER. I think we could assume that an intelligent killer would have dumped the phone in the opposite location of Steven's body. If you were to look on Google Maps, you would see that is the case here.

And that is what we would see if the SH remains ARE Steven.

 

[MarioM]

Let me make my position clear...I have been a believer that Steven walked away - and I continue to look for him every day.

That said, if Steven was a murder victim, there was a MURDERER. I think we could assume that an intelligent killer would have dumped the phone in the opposite location of Steven's body. If you were to look on Google Maps, you would see that is the case here.

And that is what we would see if the SH remains ARE Steven.

Since we have a killer who meant to mislead the police, I have the following questions:

1) Why would this intelligent killer not remove the battery from the cell phone and discard it with the body? He must have thought the body was hidden well, since he believed the movement of the cell phone would prevent the discovery of the body.

2) Why would the killer hold onto the phone for hours within such a small area in north Henderson? 5pm on Sunday till who knows what am hour the following day.

3) Why would the killer check for voicemails with Steven's phone?

Back to those three cell phone pings. Were those the only three pings of Steven's cell phone after his vehicle was left in SCA? Or were there possibly more pings but the phone company only keeps tract of only the last three towers?

Thank you for holding this discussion.

 

[Fairy1]

Since we have a killer who meant to mislead the police, I have the following questions:

1) Why would this intelligent killer not remove the battery from the cell phone and discard it with the body? He must have thought the body was hidden well, since he believed the movement of the cell phone would prevent the discovery of the body.

2) Why would the killer hold onto the phone for hours within such a small area in north Henderson? 5pm on Sunday till who knows what am hour the following day.

3) Why would the killer check for voicemails with Steven's phone?

Back to those three cell phone pings. Were those the only three pings of Steven's cell phone after his vehicle was left in SCA? Or were there possibly more pings but the phone company only keeps tract of only the last three towers?

Thank you for holding this discussion.

We DON'T know if there is a killer nor do we know their level of intelligence. We also DON'T know who checked the VM the following morning.

Once a phone goes dead, there would be no more pings. We know Steven's charger was found in his room in St. George.

Until the phone went dead (for whatever reason), the records have been available - on Steven's side, anyway.

What LE needs to look at are those folks who continued calling him. IMO.

 

[MarioM]

We DON'T know if there is a killer nor do we know their level of intelligence. We also DON'T know who checked the VM the following morning.

That is true; we do not know who moved the phone. It could have been a killer. It could have been Steven. I personally believe it probably was Steven, but I may be wrong.

Once a phone goes dead, there would be no more pings.

I know that once the battery runs out, there are no more pings. But my question was whether there were any additional pings between the time the car was parked and the 5pm ping. We know the times, and approximate locations, of the last three pings. But is there any record of any prior pings? Or we can not tell because the phone company only keeps tract of the last three towers?

We know Steven's charger was found in his room in St. George.

Was this the 110 volt charger, or the 12 volt car charger, or both?

What LE needs to look at are those folks who continued calling him. IMO.

So, you believe the killer continued to call his cell phone to throw off the police? Well, maybe one or two calls would be fine, but not so many, as that would be suspicious. To me it would make more sense that the killer would not be calling Steven's phone, as that would place him on the radar. It appears to me that those last callers didn't know Steven was missing, and since they needed to get a hold of him (back rent, etc.), they were getting upset because they thought they were being ignored. That's just my opinion.

What we truly need are the DNA results of both of those remains. That may explain a lot, or that may put us to square one.

 

[MarioM]

I did come up with some additional questions.

1) Do we know whether Steven had a medical condition?

2) Do we know whether Steven was diagnosed with some mental disorder?

3) Do we know whether Steven was taking some medication, OTC or prescribed, for a condition, disorder, or just for occasional relief such as insomnia?

4) Do we know the approximate level of Steven's IQ?

5) If I recall it correctly, Steven has written in his diary that he was unhappy about his financial situation and lack of a wife. Did Steven express to anyone that he was depressed, during any time of his life? Did he exhibit any signs of depression, in the past or in recent times?

Thank you.

 

[fridaybaker]

May be a small point, but re: the continued calls from LL and TH (his boss): I've always wondered why those two people called so many times in the days after the car was parked, while, apparently, IIRC, no one else did. However, as far as the LL goes, to Mario's point that, since they were "working out" a plan for SK to pay the back rent, perhaps the reason he called so many times was that when SK initially didn't return his called he was quite irritated: "I'm trying to help that guy out and am deferring his back rent and he won't even return my call promptly".... so he calls 9 times or so in the matter of a couple of days. I can believe this.

Mario, it's my understanding that we only know that "a phone charger was found in his room" but that it wasn't delineated as to which kind of charger. However, I think it's likely that it was the car charger or they wouldn't feel it necessary to comment on it. Just guessing here (and everywhere else in this case it seems.)

Another small point: I hate to beat a dead horse, so this is the last time I'll ask: It sure seems that quite a few posters on this thread believe that he may have simply walked away. Would any of you like to comment on the likelihood of someone being able to so completely disappear for so long -be under the radar, w/o cc use, SS activity, sightings, etc? (I know that early on there were a few, it seems very few, and they never led anywhere. Now, it would seem, nothing.) That is something I really can't get a handle on: How easy would it be to disappear like that w/o any trail, sightings, etc? Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[fridaybaker]

Mario,

I'll try to answer but you may find posters here who know more than I:

Re: Medical condition: I think that there wasn't anything except that several people -both family and friends, have described that there wasn't "something" about SK. That maybe he had a touch of ADD or something. To this I can add that IIRC some friends/family have described him as being quite "spiritual". His friend who has posted here some, GSmith, talked about it on this forum. I'll see if I can find the post that addresses it, but it may take some time -lot's of posts!

Re: Mental Dx: It's my understanding that SK did c/o mild depression and did mention to a friend/family that he was "taking something". However, I don't think that any of his f/f knew if this meant he was taking a prescription, see a doctor, or just taking some over-the-counter type of remedy. It's been mention on this forum that the LDS community is involved in quite a few marketing businesses that focus on holistic or alternative or non-prescription type of supplements and that maybe this is what he was referring to.

Re: SK's IQ: I don't remember if it's ever been discussed here, but we do know that he was graduated from BYU (Rexburg, ID). I don't know exactly what that means, though. That campus used to be known as "Ricks" and was a community college -associate degrees only. Now it's part of BYU and is a four-year school. I've always wondered if a degree from the new four-year school in Rexburg carries the same gravitas as does a degree from the orignial BYU campus in Utah. Don't know that. Also, he completed his mission in Brazil and my experience with LDS missions is that the people selected for foreign missions are usually the "best and the brightest" or at least with the most on the ball. Don't know if that's still true. Also don't know if any of this helps, but that's about all I know on the above subjects. Hopefully, some more posters will pick this up. This thread's been pretty slow lately!

 

[fridaybaker]

Okay, sorry for the last post. First line should have read: .....both family and friends have described that there WAS (not wasn't) "something" about SK.

 

[MarioM]

May be a small point, but re: the continued calls from LL and TH (his boss): I've always wondered why those two people called so many times in the days after the car was parked, while, apparently, IIRC, no one else did. However, as far as the LL goes, to Mario's point that, since they were "working out" a plan for SK to pay the back rent, perhaps the reason he called so many times was that when SK initially didn't return his called he was quite irritated: "I'm trying to help that guy out and am deferring his back rent and he won't even return my call promptly".... so he calls 9 times or so in the matter of a couple of days. I can believe this.

I personally don't see a killer, intelligent or not, call Steven's phone so many times after that Sunday. A wiser choice for the killer would have been to stay low and avoid any attention. That would have been a safer and smarter move, even from a brilliant killer. But hey, we need to follow all possible leads, at least for the purpose of elimination, since we don't know the logic of the people around Steven, and since there is not much else to follow.

Mario, it's my understanding that we only know that "a phone charger was found in his room" but that it wasn't delineated as to which kind of charger. However, I think it's likely that it was the car charger or they wouldn't feel it necessary to comment on it. Just guessing here (and everywhere else in this case it seems.)

Well, I guess we don't truly know what type of a charger was left behind in his room. But since we don't know whether or not a phone charger was found in Steven's vehicle, it probably doesn't matter. I guess if Steven didn't take any phone chargers with him, either he planned on coming back shortly, or he planned on not needed his phone after the battery runs out.

Another small point: I hate to beat a dead horse, so this is the last time I'll ask: It sure seems that quite a few posters on this thread believe that he may have simply walked away. Would any of you like to comment on the likelihood of someone being able to so completely disappear for so long -be under the radar, w/o cc use, SS activity, sightings, etc? (I know that early on there were a few, it seems very few, and they never led anywhere. Now, it would seem, nothing.) That is something I really can't get a handle on: How easy would it be to disappear like that w/o any trail, sightings, etc? Thoughts? Thanks!

Although it may seem very unlikely that such an intentional disappearance would go on for so long under the radar, I would not reject the possibility. He may be living a basic life across the country in a small town, not needing any cc's or applying for any credit. He might have wanted to get away from the urban rat race, may be working an inconspicuous blue collar job and renting a room for cash. Hey, I only became informed of his existence and disappearance less than three weeks ago, and I don't live across the nation nor in a small town, so a small, faraway town may not be aware of him being sought. But if his disappearance was intentional, I would think he would take more stuff with him. But who knows, maybe he has been stashing cash for some time and bought any necessities on the way. Yet with all that said, I still believe he never left the Henderson area, at least voluntarily. By the way, do we know when his driver's license is set to expire?

 

[MarioM]

Re: Medical condition: I think that there wasn't anything except that several people -both family and friends, have described that there was "something" about SK. That maybe he had a touch of ADD or something.

ADD/ADHD. Hmmm... So SK may have been a driven, focus, and creative thinker. That's good to know.

Re: Mental Dx: It's my understanding that SK did c/o mild depression and did mention to a friend/family that he was "taking something". However, I don't think that any of his f/f knew if this meant he was taking a prescription, see a doctor, or just taking some over-the-counter type of remedy. It's been mention on this forum that the LDS community is involved in quite a few marketing businesses that focus on holistic or alternative or non-prescription type of supplements and that maybe this is what he was referring to.

So SK may have been depressed, and the degree of his depression may have been dependent on what he was, or was not, taking. Although he may have stated to his friends and family that he was "taking something", he might have just stated that to get them off his back about such a sensitive topic, as they were probably the ones who brought it up. Was there any evidence in his room, or car, of any depression medication/remedy?

Re: SK's IQ: I don't remember if it's ever been discussed here, but we do know that he was graduated from BYU (Rexburg, ID). I don't know exactly what that means, though. That campus used to be known as "Ricks" and was a community college -associate degrees only. Now it's part of BYU and is a four-year school. I've always wondered if a degree from the new four-year school in Rexburg carries the same gravitas as does a degree from the orignial BYU campus in Utah. Don't know that. Also, he completed his mission in Brazil and my experience with LDS missions is that the people selected for foreign missions are usually the "best and the brightest" or at least with the most on the ball. Don't know if that's still true.

Degree in hand or not, I'm still curious what his IQ level was. I know several bright people who do not posses a college/university degree, and others that do have one and I wonder how they completed their course work and passed their exams. But many ADD/ADHD people do have very high IQ since that disorder makes their thinking ability more productive and persistent.

Thank you fridaybaker for all your input.

 

[sbakker]

Three of my kids, know SK's siblings. They are kind, happy,friendly. They are well liked. Having talked to afew people who knew Sk in ST. George saying the same things about him. My husband grew up with SK's father saying the same things about him. He was well respected in our community.

 

[fridaybaker]

I sure wish I knew how to quote only one paragraph here -I'll have to look into that. The last paragraph in MarioM's last post -WOW! I can't agree more. In fact, I've come to conclude that universities these days tend to groom "yes" people more than graduate genuinely educated people who are critical thinkers. Broad brush, I know, and I am one of them and do include myself here.

I hadn't thought of ADD/ADHD as being associated with high IQ and creative thinking, but I can see how that might be. Focus? I'd be surprised at that, but I don't know much about it.

As far as medication left in the car, or evidence of any anywhere, I think that there wasn't any found by LE or his family. It was just a "mention" to a friend, and then only one friend, IIRC.

As far as a killer making several calls after the car was parked, I don't know. I've thought that it could happen, in that he was killed several days after the car was parked, i.e. someone following him, him hiding, etc., or even that the person who called wasn't the killer but was involved in some nefarious scenario with or involving SK where he ended up dead. In that case, the person who called (maybe set up a meeting, situation, etc.) didn't know he'd already been "taken care" of. If this last paragraph doesn't make sense, please just ignore it. Sometimes I'm not very articulate.

Mario, don't know if you know this or not, but re: the possibility of SK taking off and restarting life in a simpler form -cash only, etc.- SK did express to colleagues or a colleague when he worked at the paper in Salt Lake that he thought that society (or maybe the workplace, can't remember which) was too "worldly". From the whole scenario, or at least what we here know of it, I've never really thought that SK walked away. However, the topic has been discussed much on this forum, and quite a bit of it related to that comment.

 

[fridaybaker]

Three of my kids, know SK's siblings. They are kind, happy,friendly. They are well liked. Having talked to afew people who knew Sk in ST. George saying the same things about him. My husband grew up with SK's father saying the same things about him. He was well respected in our community.

Sbakker, I know that one of the reasons that so many posters here continue to follow and actively participate in the SK forum is for the very reason you write about above. SK seems like the kind of guy everyone would want as a brother, friend, or even husband (obviously, during the year before he disappeared he wouldn't have been able to support a family, but what I mean is that there are thousands of women looking for a man who is steady, devout, respectful and respected.) Hopefully, he will be found and be okay as well.

I also want to note here for new posters and for his friends and family, that not only are there intrepid posters on this forum, there are several people who have really put in many, many hours personally searching for him, doing research, taking photographs, creating a timeline and frequently asked questions, etc. I hope it gives his friends and family some solace in knowing that there are so many folks, even strangers, who are dedicated to finding him.)

 

[MarioM]

Three of my kids, know SK's siblings. They are kind, happy,friendly. They are well liked. Having talked to afew people who knew Sk in ST. George saying the same things about him. My husband grew up with SK's father saying the same things about him. He was well respected in our community.

sbakker,

I'm assuming you are implying that SK was not depressed? I, on the other hand, believe there is more evidence that he did suffer from some degree of depression. People and family around him had families and homes to take care of. They had jobs. Steven, at age 30, was probably wishing for the same and wondered why he wasn't in the same position. I think his visit to Ruby Valley was not an incidental stop on the way to California, but a planned visit to reunite with the female from his past, hoping for something to develop. I'm unsure of the exact location of that female's parents' farm, but 80 miles out of the way from his Sacramento trip seems a bit excessive for a casual visit to a friend not seen for some time. I can completely relate to what SK might have been going through. I'm pretty sure my parents weren't aware of the state I was in, or they would have tried to help. Luckily my life has completely turned around.

But regardless that I believe SK might have been suffering from depression, that doesn't prove he had suicidal thoughts. He might have had them, he might have not. Had SK not been depressed, then suicide could probably be ruled out.

 

[OldSteve]

respectfully snipped: (not sniped as I originally wrote, sorry)...

I sure wish I knew how to quote only one paragraph here -I'll have to look into that.

What I did here was to hit the quote button to quote your entire post, then I simply deleted the rest of your message.... but leave the [/quote] at the end of the message... hope that helps...
When you do something like that, it is good to say "snipped" or "respectfully snipped" like I did...
I'm not an expert on this, so anyone correct me if you like..


As to Steven simply walking away to a simpler life - this seems to be the conclusion we reach in cases when we just can't figure out what happened...
I know since I put forth something like that in the case of the McStay family disappearing, and even went further by saying the McStay's might have opted to simplistic lifestyle and will one day come back and write a book about it or do a reality TV show...

 

[MarioM]

I sure wish I knew how to quote only one paragraph here -I'll have to look into that.

fridaybaker,
To quote only certain portions of a poster's post, or to break down a post into several quotes, all you do is copy and paste the first and last commands located within the brackets [] of the standard quoted reply, to the beginning and end of your desired quote(s). These commands trigger and terminate the quoting script, and can be used multiple times in a replying post. I hope that explains it properly.

I hadn't thought of ADD/ADHD as being associated with high IQ and creative thinking, but I can see how that might be. Focus? I'd be surprised at that, but I don't know much about it.

Many "gifted" children and CEOs of companies are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD.

Mario, don't know if you know this or not, but re: the possibility of SK taking off and restarting life in a simpler form -cash only, etc.- SK did express to colleagues or a colleague when he worked at the paper in Salt Lake that he thought that society (or maybe the workplace, can't remember which) was too "worldly". From the whole scenario, or at least what we here know of it, I've never really thought that SK walked away. However, the topic has been discussed much on this forum, and quite a bit of it related to that comment.

Too "worldy". That sounds like a term the Amish would use to describe our society. Since he viewed our society too materialistic and lacking spirituality, he may have started a simpler life. But I can't understand why he would put his family through such suffering to start anew, even if he had an argument with his father. Why would he worry the rest of his family? Hence, I too do not believe SK just walked away.