NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 8

[RubyRed]

And another thing, how long does it take somebody to know if they had dinner at a bishops house and if Steven was there too?

 

[Mia]

Laytonian, you really don't believe it's Steven on those videos? What about the phone call from GWebb? And from, who was it, Seth? Do you think both lied about talking to Steven? Because that's the kind of conspiracy I could really get into! Or do you think neither lied but someone in Vegas/Henderson was impersonating Steven and neither GWWebb or Seth could tell the difference? Or...do you think someone was holding Steven hostage at the time in Vegas/Henderson and 'let' him answer the phone calls? In this last case, it's highly unlikely would have told GWebb he could return for the meeting - if he indeed said that, which I'm beginning to think he did. My cloud of suspicion over GW is slowly vaporizing.

But back to the videos. I also think he looks thinner than he does in recent photos we've seen, but it could just be the cameras. You know how some mirrors make you look thinner than you actually are? And some make you like fatter? I just assume the camera is displaying an 'illusion' like that, combined with the fact that Steven probably did lose at least a little bit of weight since those photos, with all the apparent stress, both financial and mental, that he was under. Plus, Steven's family thinks it his him, and I would certainly recognize my brother in a video like that, even if it wasn't a crystal clear image - his walk, mannerisms, clothing, etc.

I'm very intrigued that you truly don't believe it is Steven. Please elaborate on your current theory in a detailed manner? I'd love to hear it.

 

[Fairy1]

Thank you. That's the big elephant in the room, in this case. Why there?

As for sightings:
Dec 10th:
Apparently, the N family in Ruby Valley recognized him.
Dec 11th:
Someone was shown his picture, after he helped the two locked-out kids.
Dec 12th:
We're still working to confirm the mysterious Bishop D dinner/party sighting.
The landlady posted that neighbor JS saw "Steven and his car" late on this date.

But after 10:15am PST Dec 13th, apparently no one talked to Steven.
It's almost two hours later, when the "walking figure" is seen on the video.

Steven's family thinks it's him. His friend gsmith thinks its him. But that figure (to me) looks thinner than Steven's recent photos.

If we're talking KISS, something happened to Steven and someone else (familiar with enough with SCA to find that spot) left the car.

If I were going to do another search for Steven, I'd look in the hills surrounding his home in St George, not the hills surrounding SCA.

-------------
If we had a map of the cellphone towers his phone connected to, we'd be able to eliminate lots of things. Or not. Maybe someone knew his voice well enough, to hold short conversations with the church folks?

OK, tell me where I'm wrong. Really.

I won't tell you you're wrong - but just why I believe it IS Steven on the video :

• I don't believe a word the landlady has said - in retrospect
• Steven told GW he was in Vegas the morning of 12/13. If it wasn't Steven on the phone, but whoever harmed him, why would they still even have Steven's phone and why would they have answered it? Too risky, IMO.
• We see what we KNOW is Steven's car drive by on Savannah Springs, then minutes later see a man fitting Steven's physical description walking by.
• Steven's family and friends do believe it is Steven on the video.
• Why would the killer (or whatever) call Steven's voice mail the day AFTER he went missing? What possible purpose would that serve?Again, that phone would have been ditched long before then if the person or people who left the car in SCA had harmed him.

The quality of video surveillance is sorely lacking - even in environments where it's crucial. We've noted other distortions in the video of Steven, so why is it so impossible to believe Steven himself appears differently than he would in the flesh?

I realize there is no evidence (that we know of) to tie Steven to the Vegas area prior to going missing. But let's not forget, he was working in a cash business. He could have made numerous trips to Vegas without using his debit or credit cards. And I usually throw away my fast food receipts before I even leave the store, so we can't put too much stock into the fact that none were found.

Even if he hadn't been here before, I believe he was here that day for a purpose. We just haven't been able to figure out what it was YET!

 

[laytonian]

Laytonian, you really don't believe it's Steven on those videos? What about the phone call from GWebb? And from, who was it, Seth? Do you think both lied about talking to Steven? Because that's the kind of conspiracy I could really get into! Or do you think neither lied but someone in Vegas/Henderson was impersonating Steven and neither GWWebb or Seth could tell the difference? Or...do you think someone was holding Steven hostage at the time in Vegas/Henderson and 'let' him answer the phone calls? In this last case, it's highly unlikely would have told GWebb he could return for the meeting - if he indeed said that, which I'm beginning to think he did. My cloud of suspicion over GW is slowly vaporizing.

But back to the videos. I also think he looks thinner than he does in recent photos we've seen, but it could just be the cameras. You know how some mirrors make you look thinner than you actually are? And some make you like fatter? I just assume the camera is displaying an 'illusion' like that, combined with the fact that Steven probably did lose at least a little bit of weight since those photos, with all the apparent stress, both financial and mental, that he was under. Plus, Steven's family thinks it his him, and I would certainly recognize my brother in a video like that, even if it wasn't a crystal clear image - his walk, mannerisms, clothing, etc.

I'm very intrigued that you truly don't believe it is Steven. Please elaborate on your current theory in a detailed manner? I'd love to hear it.

My theory is rambling. There's a couple things I can't mention, that fit into it. Well...I'll hint: someone close to Steven has the same name as a man with 6 Utah drug convictions (and no, it's not Z the infamous roomie, which I think we focus on because we know his name).

I have two beliefs, and I've settled on neither. I can go either way. Here's what I'm constantly pinging between: either he drove around and found that parking place "accidentally" OR it's likely not him, because of the difficulty of getting to that location.

My only other option is that someone was in the car with him -- and the passenger west through the gate, and Steven walked east then up EL. But that's pretty convoluted and it doesn't make much sense that he'd have a passenger.

If he ended up parking there because he drove around and found it, I think he went there to harm himself. He didn't know the area, but the mountains look close.

Steven didn't have a GPS nor fancy cellphone. When he drove to Ruby Valley, he took the long way (I-15 and I-80) rather than a route that was 200miles shorter each direction. Even a rudimentary road atlas or online map would show the US-93 route to be better. That's NOT an adventurous driver.

The people who most strongly believe he's alive, seem to believe he went there on purpose. But HOW? Directions someone wrote by hand, a handwritten map, or something someone mailed to him?

Why would a non-adventurous driver end up in an obscure cul de sac far from his apartment?

The phone calls?
Likely him. We don't know what was said on them, and I really don't suspect SA or GW of a conspiracy. The only way, I think, that it wasn't him was if the voice on his phone only said "uh-huh" and gave yes/no/short answers like "if you want"....which kinda makes me think that's why GW said "do what you have to do" because maybe he wasn't getting anything from the other end of the conversation.

The last phone call was at 10:15am Las Vegas time. That means there was 1-3/4 hours between that call and the security video. That's actually enough time, in Sunday morning light traffic, to drive from St George to Vegas -- and only at 70mph average. Traffic speeds between those two cities are usually above 80mph, except through the gorge where it slows down to 75.

We don't know where Steven went, after he pulled out of the driveway the night before (as neighbor JS reported). My guess is he returned from his Dec 12th jaunt south, found himself locked out and left. OR had a confrontation with someone before he left again.

I just think he's no longer with us. Either by his own hand (possible drug overdose) or crime victim related to someone he knew, who had him doing "courier" work and then covered his tracks by eliminating the witness.

 

[RubyRed]

I won't tell you you're wrong - but just why I believe it IS Steven on the video :

• I don't believe a word the landlady has said - in retrospect
• Steven told GW he was in Vegas the morning of 12/13. If it wasn't Steven on the phone, but whoever harmed him, why would they still even have Steven's phone and why would they have answered it? Too risky, IMO.
• We see what we KNOW is Steven's car drive by on Savannah Springs, then minutes later see a man fitting Steven's physical description walking by.
• Steven's family and friends do believe it is Steven on the video.
• Why would the killer (or whatever) call Steven's voice mail the day AFTER he went missing? What possible purpose would that serve?Again, that phone would have been ditched long before then if the person or people who left the car in SCA had harmed him.

The quality of video surveillance is sorely lacking - even in environments where it's crucial. We've noted other distortions in the video of Steven, so why is it so impossible to believe Steven himself appears differently than he would in the flesh?

I realize there is no evidence (that we know of) to tie Steven to the Vegas area prior to going missing. But let's not forget, he was working in a cash business. He could have made numerous trips to Vegas without using his debit or credit cards. And I usually throw away my fast food receipts before I even leave the store, so we can't put too much stock into the fact that none were found.

Even if he hadn't been here before, I believe he was here that day for a purpose. We just haven't been able to figure out what it was YET!

bbm

You make good points Fairy1. Yet in this case it seems a perp, possibly did turn the cell on the next day.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Amber's Cell Phone and Ping

 

[Canyon1]

You know, going back to that theory that was tossed around a couple of weeks ago--the one where Steven got lost and ended up on Evening Lights by mistake? Well, I found this map http://awarebuyers.com/sun-city-anthem/sun-city-anthem-maps.html of SCA which lists names of the streets alphabetically and graphs them on a map. Turns out that Evening Twilight apparently isn't part of SCA but abuts it. However there is Evening Sky and Evening Sunset as well as Evening Lights in different parts of the community. It would be enough to confuse ME. Don't know that it means anything, but maybe...

 

[laytonian]

I won't tell you you're wrong - but just why I believe it IS Steven on the video :

• I don't believe a word the landlady has said - in retrospect

• 
  
  

  [*]Steven told GW he was in Vegas the morning of 12/13. If it wasn't Steven on the phone, but whoever harmed him, why would they still even have Steven's phone and why would they have answered it? Too risky, IMO.

  
  But there's 1-3/4 hours between the last call, and the figure walking by on the surveillance video. The KISS theory there, is that AFTER the last call, something happened to him.
  
  
  

  [*]We see what we KNOW is Steven's car drive by on Savannah Springs, then minutes later see a man fitting Steven's physical description walking by.

  
  It's not like Steven had an uncommon physical description. 5'10", 180 pounds. That's the average guy. I wish Steven was 5'2" or 6'4".
  
  I know it's a fisheye lens, but I've watched that figure walk by probably 100 times. Start, stop, stare, over and over. It's an average guy walking past.
  
  

  [*]Steven's family and friends do believe it is Steven on the video.

  
  What would they believe, if that video didn't exist ... and Steven's car had just found there? The video is almost harmful, because it implants beliefs. "There he is! It has to be him, it was his car." "Look! He walked away and is safe!". "He looks purposeful."
  
  

  [*]Why would the killer (or whatever) call Steven's voice mail the day AFTER he went missing? What possible purpose would that serve?Again, that phone would have been ditched long before then if the person or people who left the car in SCA had harmed him.

There's various logical explanations (most of which I've discussed before):
1 - Steven's checking to see if he missed a call, or to re-hear one that meant something to him.
2 - Someone found the phone, and checked to see if its owner had called it in hopes of locating it. That's exactly what I do, when I can't find my phone: I call it. If I found someone else's phone, I'd check their voicemail. After the phone went dead, they could have just tossed it in the trash or given it to a kid to play with.
3 - If it's a perp, who killed Steven, they weren't happy with him. They may have believed they were double-crossed, and checked the voicemail to see who could be "in on it" (whatever "it" would be).

The quality of video surveillance is sorely lacking - even in environments where it's crucial. We've noted other distortions in the video of Steven, so why is it so impossible to believe Steven himself appears differently than he would in the flesh?

Because in the CAM3 video, Steven is in the least-distorted area until he walks past the tree. It's the edges of the video that show the fisheye lens' distortion.

I realize there is no evidence (that we know of) to tie Steven to the Vegas area prior to going missing. But let's not forget, he was working in a cash business. He could have made numerous trips to Vegas without using his debit or credit cards.

He was washing windows; was he earning enough money to do anything more than buy gas and eat?

And I usually throw away my fast food receipts before I even leave the store, so we can't put too much stock into the fact that none were found.

Because you eat in the store.

If you pulled into the drive-up or ate in the car, you'd have the receipt with you, in the sack. The sack is with you in the car, unless you clean it out when you return from your trip. Which was not done, in this case.

Why would he be fastidious during a (proposed) trip to Vegas, yet leave a trail of purchases during a "secret" trip to Northern Nevada or Mesquite/Overton? I think he'd do the same thing, no matter where he went.

Even if he hadn't been here before, I believe he was here that day for a purpose. We just haven't been able to figure out what it was YET!

Purpose, purposeful. I can't imagine, after all this time, that we've NOT mentioned all possibilities.
Dog show? Elderly patrol cheerleading contest?

Each one of us, however, wants to believe (or not believe) certain pieces of truth and logic -- and I include myself in that.

 

[Fairy1]

bbm

You make good points Fairy1. Yet in this case it seems a perp, possibly did turn the cell on the next day.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Amber's Cell Phone and Ping

Why would a perp do that? Makes no sense to me.

I really believe it was Steven.

 

[laytonian]

You know, going back to that theory that was tossed around a couple of weeks ago--the one where Steven got lost and ended up on Evening Lights by mistake? Well, I found this map http://awarebuyers.com/sun-city-anthem/sun-city-anthem-maps.html of SCA which lists names of the streets alphabetically and graphs them on a map. Turns out that Evening Twilight apparently isn't part of SCA but abuts it. However there is Evening Sky and Evening Sunset as well as Evening Lights in different parts of the community. It would be enough to confuse ME. Don't know that it means anything, but maybe...

Thank you! You solved today's mystery: is Evening Twilight part of SCA?
NO!

I thought it wouldn't be, because the houses are smaller and tightly-packed. Someone who had been there before, certainly would recognize the difference. That may tell us that Steven hadn't been in that area ever before, if he was turned around.

But the difference between Evening Lights and Evening Twilight is "twi" and "s". I might even select one wrongly, using my Garmin.

If Steven was as fragile as we sometimes think he was becoming, would he just walk and walk until he found himself "corrected"? If there was no one on the street, would he knock and ask for directions -- or not?

I still think it's a half-decent theory, but just a delay until the inevitable. Injured? Found his way and they were blindingly angry? I dunno.

 

[redsky]

I have been following this case daily for weeks now.
Looking at pics of Steven and the video - it looks like it might not be him. But there are so many factors - the fisheye lens, shadows, etc.

So it's a. it is him b. it isn't

Either way at this point - as long as he has been gone it doesn't look good. How many people successfully disappear and walk away from their lives every year? I don't know the stats, I am asking . I can't imagine an extraordinary amount succeed.

If only we had xray vision and could see what is in the folder he is carrying!!!

 

[laytonian]

I have been following this case daily for weeks now.
Looking at pics of Steven and the video - it looks like it might not be him. But there are so many factors - the fisheye lens, shadows, etc.

So it's a. it is him b. it isn't

Either way at this point - as long as he has been gone it doesn't look good. How many people successfully disappear and walk away from their lives every year? I don't know the stats, I am asking . I can't imagine an extraordinary amount succeed.

Well....I've been here for almost three months, and I only hear one "successful" name: Nicholas Francisco, who left a wife and kids. BUT Francisco also left some clues behind...and had money to live on. He's been found, but won't really admit who he is, and since it's not really against the law to disappear (as long as you're not hiding a crime), he's safe. But he's rude.

If only we had xray vision and could see what is in the folder he is carrying!!!

Now THERE'S an idea we can use! There was a science report today about "invisibility". I'm wondering if Steven was the test case?

 

[Fairy1]

But there's 1-3/4 hours between the last call, and the figure walking by on the surveillance video. The KISS theory there, is that AFTER the last call, something happened to him.

So, that would have been in Vegas, yes?

It's not like Steven had an uncommon physical description. 5'10", 180 pounds. That's the average guy. I wish Steven was 5'2" or 6'4".

I know it's a fisheye lens, but I've watched that figure walk by probably 100 times. Start, stop, stare, over and over. It's an average guy walking past.

Yes, Steven is an average guy and so was the guy in the video. What's your point?

What would they believe, if that video didn't exist ... and Steven's car had just found there? The video is almost harmful, because it implants beliefs. "There he is! It has to be him, it was his car." "Look! He walked away and is safe!". "He looks purposeful."

I think they would still believe Steven was there, though I can't speak for them.

There's various logical explanations (most of which I've discussed before):
1 - Steven's checking to see if he missed a call, or to re-hear one that meant something to him.
2 - Someone found the phone, and checked to see if its owner had called it in hopes of locating it. That's exactly what I do, when I can't find my phone: I call it. If I found someone else's phone, I'd check their voicemail. After the phone went dead, they could have just tossed it in the trash or given it to a kid to play with.
3 - If it's a perp, who killed Steven, they weren't happy with him. They may have believed they were double-crossed, and checked the voicemail to see who could be "in on it" (whatever "it" would be).

With ALL due respect, I disagree.

Because in the CAM3 video, Steven is in the least-distorted area until he walks past the tree. It's the edges of the video that show the fisheye lens' distortion.

I'm no expert on this subject.

He was washing windows; was he earning enough money to do anything more than buy gas and eat?

He had a hybrid (?) car and we know he ate cheaply. We do NOT really know how much money he had.

Because you eat in the store.

If you pulled into the drive-up or ate in the car, you'd have the receipt with you, in the sack. The sack is with you in the car, unless you clean it out when you return from your trip. Which was not done, in this case.

I can't speak for Steven, but I would clean it out.

Why would he be fastidious during a (proposed) trip to Vegas, yet leave a trail of purchases during a "secret" trip to Northern Nevada or Mesquite/Overton? I think he'd do the same thing, no matter where he went.

Because he was hiding whatever he was doing in Vegas?

Purpose, purposeful. I can't imagine, after all this time, that we've NOT mentioned all possibilities.
Dog show? Elderly patrol cheerleading contest?

Each one of us, however, wants to believe (or not believe) certain pieces of truth and logic -- and I include myself in that.

So true.

 

[laytonian]

But there's 1-3/4 hours between the last call, and the figure walking by on the surveillance video. The KISS theory there, is that AFTER the last call, something happened to him.

So, that would have been in Vegas, yes?

Not necessarily. Even IF he were actually in Vegas when those calls came in, there was time to drive 100 miles and back to where the car was left.

It's not like Steven had an uncommon physical description. 5'10", 180 pounds. That's the average guy. I wish Steven was 5'2" or 6'4".

I know it's a fisheye lens, but I've watched that figure walk by probably 100 times. Start, stop, stare, over and over. It's an average guy walking past.

Yes, Steven is an average guy and so was the guy in the video. What's your point?

That we can't base the identification based on build. We can't see a face, his head is down as he passes, and we really can't even tell what he's wearing.

[
What would they believe, if that video didn't exist ... and Steven's car had just found there? The video is almost harmful, because it implants beliefs. "There he is! It has to be him, it was his car." "Look! He walked away and is safe!". "He looks purposeful."

I think they would still believe Steven was there, though I can't speak for them.

Or maybe they'd say "Steven would NEVER park there!" (which is kinda what's mystifying everyone, isn't it?)

There's various logical explanations (most of which I've discussed before):
1 - Steven's checking to see if he missed a call, or to re-hear one that meant something to him.
2 - Someone found the phone, and checked to see if its owner had called it in hopes of locating it. That's exactly what I do, when I can't find my phone: I call it. If I found someone else's phone, I'd check their voicemail. After the phone went dead, they could have just tossed it in the trash or given it to a kid to play with.
3 - If it's a perp, who killed Steven, they weren't happy with him. They may have believed they were double-crossed, and checked the voicemail to see who could be "in on it" (whatever "it" would be).

With ALL due respect, I disagree.

So who checked the voicemail, if it's not Steven, someone who found the phone or a perp?

[
Because in the CAM3 video, Steven is in the least-distorted area until he walks past the tree. It's the edges of the video that show the fisheye lens' distortion.

I'm no expert on this subject.

You don't have to be. You can see how the figure changes as it reaches the edges of the video pane.

[
He was washing windows; was he earning enough money to do anything more than buy gas and eat?

He had a hybrid (?) car and we know he ate cheaply. We do NOT really know how much money he had.

His 2003 Chevrolet is not a hybrid; it's a car that runs on either regular gasoline or E85 (ethanol). It got decent mileage, but not so great that he didn't spent at least $70/$80 on gas during the Ruby Valley trip.

Because you eat in the store.

If you pulled into the drive-up or ate in the car, you'd have the receipt with you, in the sack. The sack is with you in the car, unless you clean it out when you return from your trip. Which was not done, in this case.

I can't speak for Steven, but I would clean it out.

Yes, you would. I would. He didn't

[Why would he be fastidious during a (proposed) trip to Vegas, yet leave a trail of purchases during a "secret" trip to Northern Nevada or Mesquite/Overton? I think he'd do the same thing, no matter where he went.

Because he was hiding whatever he was doing in Vegas?

He was evidently hiding what he was doing in Ruby Valley, too - yet he left a CC trail and receipts in the car. That's my point.

Purpose, purposeful. I can't imagine, after all this time, that we've NOT mentioned all possibilities.
Dog show? Elderly patrol cheerleading contest?

Each one of us, however, wants to believe (or not believe) certain pieces of truth and logic -- and I include myself in that.

So true.

Yup. And we're all good-hearted people who want a good outcome, but we're also all realists.

 

[sbakker]

It looks as though, one of Steven's employers, has a drug record. Anybody else see it?

 

[dovebar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have no idea what he was doing in Mesquite, right?

We also have no idea where he was Saturday night and Sunday morning.

I wonder how much the Mesquite question has been investigated. Maybe someone in Mesquite referred him to someone in Vegas for possible work.

Another thing I wonder about, we have been told that there is a church near where he was walking (with a genealogy group). So those streets are not all residential? What other businesses or churches might be there? Many churches have a soup kitchen that would have been functioning on a Sunday morning, and while they serve many decent people down on their luck, they also can attract sketchy people. It would be interesting to know what else besides houses were on those nearby streets.

About the cell phone, one more reason I can think of that a perp would check voicemail is to find out if anyone called Steven and anyone was looking for him. No one missing him would equal more time for them to disappear him.
The problem with that theory is that my voicemail requires a password. If his was similar, to check his voicemail would have required that they were able to force him to give up his voicemail code. But if they went to that trouble, wouldn't they get his ATM code out of him and raid his bank account? They wouldn't know how little money he had until they checked.

 

[RubyRed]

It looks as though, one of Steven's employers, has a drug record. Anybody else see it?

No, I didn't see it . Who?

 

[dovebar]

Where is the list of employers?

Home invasion robbery in Henderson on a Sunday afternoon, with a house chosen at random.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/14/-duty-metro-officer-shoots-man-during-henderson-ho/

 

[sbakker]

There is no list of employers, but I did see his last employer does have a drug record.

 

[RubyRed]

Where is the list of employers?

Home invasion robbery in Henderson on a Sunday afternoon, with a house chosen at random.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/14/-duty-metro-officer-shoots-man-during-henderson-ho/

Runs to a cops home, and gets shot. LOL LOL

 

[dovebar]

That person also lists his interests as drinking, boating, and CSI.

Nothing in common with SK at all.

Was Steven starting his own window washing business, and if so, was it seen as cutting in?