NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 8

[RubyRed]

I'm going back to all the media releases and found this:

"He's a great guy who has always been spontaneous," said Naegle, who lives in Layton. "It was normal for him to just out of the blue drive somewhere like Vegas to visit friends or go to a party or [church] ward activity."

I don't recall any friends every being mentioned of living in Vegas?? Did I miss a post? I know he had family there.

Could you give a link to that . Thanks

 

[carbuff]

This is a good find. I find it odd that someone from the family would say that it was normal for Steven to visit Vegas when we asked and were told by the family that Steven hadn't been in Vegas in years. The last time he went to Vegas was on a family vacation IIRC. And didn't his mother confirm there was no activity on his bank account from Vegas in the weeks/months prior to his disappearance?

I keep thinking, "denial." Something they just don't want to see.

And then I think, "No wonder he left."

 

[Lato]

Could you give a link to that . Thanks

Scroll down a bit in this article....
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14152619

 

[hollyblue]

Could you give a link to that . Thanks

Sorry RubyRed, I was so busy trying to find statements by LE, when I found it, I forgot to link. Here ya go:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14152619

ETA: Ooops. Sorry Lato, I didn't see your link til later.....But thank you.

 

[RubyRed]

Scroll down a bit in this article....
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14152619

Sorry RubyRed, I was so busy trying to find statements by LE, when I found it, I forgot to link. Here ya go:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14152619

ETA: Ooops. Sorry Lato, I didn't see your link til later.....But thank you.

Thank you. That is a interesting statement.

 

[laytonian]

This is a good find. I find it odd that someone from the family would say that it was normal for Steven to visit Vegas when we asked and were told by the family that Steven hadn't been in Vegas in years. The last time he went to Vegas was on a family vacation IIRC. And didn't his mother confirm there was no activity on his bank account from Vegas in the weeks/months prior to his disappearance?

I'm sorry, that's a bit of a misquote.

Naegle didn't say "normal for Steven to visit Vegas". She said it was normal for him to drive and/or visit "somewhere like Vegas".

We know he drove back and forth from St George to Bountiful (north of SLC) in November alone.

I'm not going to rule out that he'd never been there before, it's just that the family has stated that (to their knowledge, and based on bank statements/receipts), he hadn't been there for at least four years.

As for where he parked: he had to either have directions there, or knew about that area. BUT why hide visits to Vegas, and leave a paper trail all over Utah and Nevada between 10 and 12 December?

 

[laytonian]

I do not want this case to fizzle. There is something so special about Steven. I feel like we are his friends, we need to try and keep things going. I think we need some encouragement too. i want to hear from the family spokes person, and give us a boost. A boost to..... I do not know what, but something!!

I think we need to look at Steven himself, again.

We know Steven described himself as "conservative" (politically).
We know the people at the SL Tribune were "too worldly" for his taste.

Would someone who thought his Salt Lake City coworkers were "too worldly", be in and out of Vegas? (Remember, his friend gsmith gave us that reason -- his parents said he moved south because of the weather...but soon started feeling bad again.)

Could Steven have looked towards a more right-wing experience, among like-minded people? A local news story about the Christian militia arrests yesterday, mentioned that similar groups exist in Utah.

 

[laytonian]

If someone wanted to do Steven harm, they would have taken steps to erase tracks. Leaving their car in the neighborhood is so bizarre, it does not even enter the realm of what I consider remotely probable.

Thank you.

That's still the big elephant in the room for me: the car's location.

Why else leave it there, except as a red herring?
It's Cary Stayner throwing Carol Sund's wallet into that Modesto intersection.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm sorry, that's a bit of a misquote.

Naegle didn't say "normal for Steven to visit Vegas". She said it was normal for him to drive and/or visit "somewhere like[B/B] Vegas".

We know he drove back and forth from St George to Bountiful (north of SLC) in November alone.

I'm not going to rule out that he'd never been there before, it's just that the family has stated that (to their knowledge, and based on bank statements/receipts), he hadn't been there for at least four years.

As for where he parked: he had to either have directions there, or knew about that area. BUT why hide visits to Vegas, and leave a paper trail all over Utah and Nevada between 10 and 12 December?

I must say, I've never seen so many misquotes and media misinformation in one case before. Remarkable.
How do you know what Naegle actually said? As much as Naegle has come forward to "clarify" in the past, I wonder why she did not catch this sooner?

Yes, he has made trips to N Utah previously; BUT, he apparently didn't visit family or friends---nor tell them of this trip--even tho in contact with them by phone during that time. The only knowledgeable person of this was the one in Ruby Valley.

"BUT why hide visits to Vegas, and leave a paper trail all over Utah and Nevada between 10 and 12 December?"[/QUOTE]

That is A VERY GOOD QUESTION in the entirety of it all.

I'm done. No more sleuthing for me on SK's case.

 

[laytonian]

I've been thinking - and may have posted this before...

One of the questions I asked at the PC was about the discrepancy in the description of what Steven was wearing went he went missing. When I asked, Steven's Mom asked me, "What do YOU think he's wearing?"

I do believe the family is seeking answers, but I also believe they have information we need to move forward. Though I don't know if THEY know it.

....and they may have shared it with LE. We don't know. We DO know that it's unlikely they'll share it with us (a bunch of strangers).

That security video is so poor, even his mother can't tell what he's wearing -- yet we believe the parents have 100% identified their son?

 

[hollyblue]

I think we need to look at Steven himself, again.

We know Steven described himself as "conservative" (politically).
We know the people at the SL Tribune were "too worldly" for his taste.

Would someone who thought his Salt Lake City coworkers were "too worldly", be in and out of Vegas? (Remember, his friend gsmith gave us that reason -- his parents said he moved south because of the weather...but soon started feeling bad again.)

Could Steven have looked towards a more right-wing experience, among like-minded people? A local news story about the Christian militia arrests yesterday, mentioned that similar groups exist in Utah.

I find that unlikely of someone into music, playing guitar, and painting (rocks). I doubt that Steven had ever touch a weapon in his life--except a pocketknife maybe in camping. Boyscouts.

 

[Fairy1]

[/b]


I must say, I've never seen so many misquotes and media misinformation in one case before. Remarkable.
How do you know what Naegle actually said? As much as Naegle has come forward to "clarify" in the past, I wonder why she did not catch this sooner?

Yes, he has made trips to N Utah previously; BUT, he apparently didn't visit family or friends---nor tell them of this trip--even tho in contact with them by phone during that time. The only knowledgeable person of this was the one in Ruby Valley.

"BUT why hide visits to Vegas, and leave a paper trail all over Utah and Nevada between 10 and 12 December?"

Actually HB, the media didn't misquote Naegle in the SCL Tribune article which reads:

His cousin, K.C. Naegle, described Koecher as someone who likes board games, hiking and family reunions.

"He's a great guy who has always been spontaneous," said Naegle, who lives in Layton. "It was normal for him to just out of the blue drive somewhere like Vegas to visit friends or go to a party or [church] ward activity."

This is from the link you posted on the previous page. Though, there have been a number of misquotes along the way.

And we, at least, need to be honest about why someone would deliberately leave no paper trail of trips to Vegas. IMO, it would be because they wouldn't want anyone to know they've been here. Trust me, I'm in the gaming business and we see it ALL the time.

Not saying that's what happened with Steven. But we can't say that's not what happened, either.

 

[hollyblue]

Actually HB, the media didn't misquote Naegle in the SCL Tribune article which reads:

His cousin, K.C. Naegle, described Koecher as someone who likes board games, hiking and family reunions.

"He's a great guy who has always been spontaneous," said Naegle, who lives in Layton. "It was normal for him to just out of the blue drive somewhere like Vegas to visit friends or go to a party or [church] ward activity."

This is from the link you posted on the previous page. Though, there have been a number of misquotes along the way.

And we, at least, need to be honest about why someone would deliberately leave no paper trail of trips to Vegas. IMO, it would be because they wouldn't want anyone to know they've been here. Trust me, I'm in the gaming business and we see it ALL the time.

Not saying that's what happened with Steven. But we can't say that's not what happened, either.

How apt. Nothing personal Fairy1 on your posting. Just---the wording was timely and I couldn't help myself.

 

[laytonian]

And we, at least, need to be honest about why someone would deliberately leave no paper trail of trips to Vegas. IMO, it would be because they wouldn't want anyone to know they've been here. Trust me, I'm in the gaming business and we see it ALL the time.

Not saying that's what happened with Steven. But we can't say that's not what happened, either.

Fair. But why did he leave the paper trail all over Nevada and Utah Dec 10th - 12th and not say a word about where he was, to his family?

We can't have it both ways.

One trip's secret and the other's secret...but one has a paper trail and one does not?

When you "see it all the time", how many of those people never used a credit card, cashed a check, were seen on video, signed up for credit, booked a room or otherwise left a trail?

Isn't it also possible that the reason there's no paper trail on the trip to Henderson, is simply because he didn't need to buy gas or food? Snack food was found in the car, and the gas tank was half full.

 

[Fairy1]

Fair. But why did he leave the paper trail all over Nevada and Utah Dec 10th - 12th and not say a word about where he was, to his family?

We can't have it both ways.

One trip's secret and the other's secret...but one has a paper trail and one does not?

When you "see it all the time", how many of those people never used a credit card, cashed a check, were seen on video, signed up for credit, booked a room or otherwise left a trail?

Isn't it also possible that the reason there's no paper trail on the trip to Henderson, is simply because he didn't need to buy gas or food? Snack food was found in the car, and the gas tank was half full.

Well, it appears he didn't go missing from Ruby Valley or Mesquite. It could be said that he wasn't intentionally hiding his trail on those trips because there was no reason to. Although he didn't seem to be very forthcoming with those he spoke to around those trips. The very fact that he stopped at AN's family's ranch indicates to me that trip wasn't meant to be a secret.

If Steven had made previous trips to Vegas, he'd actually have been on surveillance video from nearly every public place he may have gone. But no one would have been looking for him then. No one would have looked for him on an SCA resident's home surveillance videos either, had his car not been found near there. No one thought it was important to view the video from the KMart in St. George, even though there was a receipt.

I agree that for that last trip to Henderson, there were no receipts found because he didn't make any purchases. Couldn't that have been the case on previous trips to the area?

People who don't want someone to know they've been to Vegas know how to hide it. They're not going to leave a paper trail that would prove it. Then again, they don't normally go missing. They just do what they came here to do, then go home.

 

[laytonian]

Thanks Laytonian, that was an education and a half! I had no idea Utahns were so fun (perhaps inadvertantly).

I agree with Fairy that the family probably knows something (or has access to information) that they don't realise they have, or they don't realise is important. So frustrating. But I don't think a vigil would help - it's the fam themselves who have to see what might be right there in front of them (yikes, now I sound like Capital Letters Guy from the Facebook post).

That might not be a bad way to think, really.

Remember, we're dealing with a 30-year-old man who described his favorite book as A Cat In The Hat (by Dr Seuss). (No one caught that when I posted the information from the LDS dating site he registered on ... and I don't think it's a joke, because everything else was filled out in a serious manner.)

Naegle was quoted in the media, describing him as liking board games. In a post here, she mentioned he'd like to paint rocks. She also described him as (basically) incapable of planning and carrying off a complicated scheme ... although he could be led astray.

I think those are valid and honest comments.

My own opinion is that we're dealing with a nice, simple, uncomplicated person.

I think we need to look at what a person like that, offended enough by "worldly" people he worked with that he'd quit his job, would be doing when their car was found in a strange place.

 

[laytonian]

Well, it appears he didn't go missing from Ruby Valley or Mesquite. It could be said that he wasn't intentionally hiding his trail on those trips because there was no reason to. Although he didn't seem to be very forthcoming with those he spoke to around those trips. The very fact that he stopped at AN's family's ranch indicates to me that trip wasn't meant to be a secret.

If Steven had made previous trips to Vegas, he'd actually have been on surveillance video from nearly every public place he may have gone. But no one would have been looking for him then. No one would have looked for him on an SCA resident's home surveillance videos either, had his car not been found near there. No one thought it was important to view the video from the KMart in St. George, even though there was a receipt.

I agree that for that last trip to Henderson, there were no receipts found because he didn't make any purchases. Couldn't that have been the case on previous trips to the area?

People who don't want someone to know they've been to Vegas know how to hide it. They're not going to leave a paper trail that would prove it. Then again, they don't normally go missing. They just do what they came here to do, then go home.

In that case, if I were Steven, Wendover Nevada would have been the last place I'd ever purchase gas. Why? Because there's nothing there but casinos and supporting businesses.

Going to Wendover is a big flag-raiser to people who live in Northern Utah (like Steven's parents).

Are we then supposed to believe that the drop-in to Ruby Valley was a cover-up for gambling in Wendover? And/or Wells, Nevada...where he'd have driven south to get to RV?

Why do I say that?

Because if he was a ferocious gambler hiding trips to Vegas, it seems quite silly he'd drive to Northern Nevada (and waste all that gambling money) when he could have gone to Vegas.

 

[Mia]

I don't think so. I sense a frustration with the results of the press conference (only two members of the media showed up, and Rolf's mention of the Powell case got quoted more often than what was said about Steven).

Plus, all those vigils haven't done much for the Powell case, either.

Let's hope more's going on in the background, than is apparent to us.

Ugh, this annoys me to no end. It's so strange which cases the public finds interesting, and which in turn the media chooses to 'latch onto'. Granted, the case of SP is very sad, IMO, yet another instance of a dumb, selfish, arrogant man thinking that killing his wife and stealing from his children a mother is a better choice than just getting a divorce. But it's also pretty clear to me and most others that this is what happened - there is no 'mystery' here. SP's body is somewhere out there in the Utah wilderness, and I'm sure every resident of the state is aware of this and will be keeping their eyes open now that the snow has melted. But Steven's case, which truly is a mystery, and much more fascinating and interesting, IMO, gets little to no media attention, because apparently the public has no interest. Again, it's just strange that everyone else, or at least more people, aren't more 'obsessed' or at least interested in Steven's case like we are.

 

[Lato]

Did Fairy1 tell us that Steven does not show up as a gambler on the casino computers?
I know this is not the right wording, but I would like to ask that question?

 

[Fairy1]

In that case, if I were Steven, Wendover Nevada would have been the last place I'd ever purchase gas. Why? Because there's nothing there but casinos and supporting businesses.

Going to Wendover is a big flag-raiser to people who live in Northern Utah (like Steven's parents).

Are we then supposed to believe that the drop-in to Ruby Valley was a cover-up for gambling in Wendover? And/or Wells, Nevada...where he'd have driven south to get to RV?

Why do I say that?

Because if he was a ferocious gambler hiding trips to Vegas, it seems quite silly he'd drive to Northern Nevada (and waste all that gambling money) when he could have gone to Vegas.

I don't believe gambling was his secret. And all that other driving he was doing, IMO, was quite innocent. I believe he was soul-searching. Looking for some kind of sign to point him in the right direction. And it's possible that the answer that came to him led him to Henderson/Vegas.

Remember, gsmith said Steven was very spiritual and that God had told him the girl he was dating wasn't the right girl. It's not so impossible to believe he was searching for some type of guidance.