NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

[RubyRed]

(Thank You Webrocket )

For those that are interested there are about 6 posts on the Brandon Swanson thread from a MTRTA Search Manager on how difficult it can be to search for skeleton remains in the elements. They are well worth the read, very informative.

Most untrained searchers believe that a body is relatively easy to spot.

Fresh skeletal remains blend very well with the natural environment and are very difficult to spot. Bones can take a few years to bleach out to a point that they are easier to see.

if one hasn't seen fresh disarticulated remains in the natural environment before, one is not likely to spot them even if looking right at them.

( page 6 ) approx 6 posts

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4934364&highlight=brandon+swanson#post4934364

 

[pudd]

At the risk of sounding cynical <snip>

Oh webrocket, you wouldn't be you without that "now wait a second" approach! Hard as it is to sleuth these things, we really do need opinions and thoughts from all directions.

 

[hollyblue]

Oh webrocket, you wouldn't be you without that "now wait a second" approach! Hard as it is to sleuth these things, we really do need opinions and thoughts from all directions.

The way this case has gone in the past, I think he has a logical reason for being cynical. The info on the MTRTA Search Manager was very informative...thank you WR and RubyRed.

Pudd thank you for being open minded. Sometime you can't even lead the horse to water, let alone getting him to drink.

 

[sbakker]

I have been out of town for the last week. I was in St. George actually. I was glad to hear about the tip that came in, and of course sad if he is found not alive. Just want to always think, he may be alive out there. My thoughts were about GW. He was in Las vegas the same time SK was. Where did his phone call come from that Sunday? has it been checked?

 

[sbakker]

If they got a tip about sk, it seems as though it would be from someone who had something to do with it, or they know someone who did something to him. How would they know he was out there if he comitted suicide?

 

[webrocket]

another thought on this search party. It is one thing to send out volunteers to scour a large area in the hopes of finding something. It is quite another thing where there is supposedly a tip that a body is in a general area, then to leave that to private citizens.

Something just does not jive with me on this.

If you recall, one of my comments/criticisms/critiques was that I thought the people who knew him were seemingly more content to believe he was the victim of a crime rather than a runaway. This 'tip' plays right into that.

 

[laytonian]

At the risk of sounding cynical, is there any indication of who is partaking in this search? I mean is it the ward people from St. George?

The reason I ask this was that in thread #8 I said this about the St. George crowd:

These people he used to associate with closed rank when Steven disappeared and almost none express any concern for Steven.

Now out of nowhere a tip comes in and people want to all get involved? Are they busing them in from the singles ward now?

I think you've misread what I posted.

Right now, we (Naegle and I) are TRYING to get the word out to the people in Steven's ward and recruit them as searchers. I have asked the activities director (title?) to include a blurb about it in her weekly mass email to the ward members.

I love you, webrocket, but it really would be helpful if you'd click that "quote" button when you reply to a post, so we know what you're referring to.

 

[laytonian]

If they got a tip about sk, it seems as though it would be from someone who had something to do with it, or they know someone who did something to him. How would they know he was out there if he comitted suicide?

If this was a tip about criminal activity, it would have been given to police immediately (it's illegal to hide evidence of a crime).

The only thing I can think of, that would specifically lead to that area, would be if the PI had finally been able to "triangulate" that last phone ping.

Well...there's one other thing but I don't believe a reputable retired Las Vegas police detective would fall for it (you know, "the number 3, airplanes, and a fence" kinda thing).

The area IS where we've previously speculated Steven could have walked towards, if he'd seen the mountains in the distance,
It's logical for this illogical case, so a tip could reinforce the credibility.

 

[laytonian]

(Thank You Webrocket )
For those that are interested there are about 6 posts on the Brandon Swanson thread from a MTRTA Search Manager on how difficult it can be to search for skeleton remains in the elements. They are well worth the read, very informative.

Thanks.
The mentions of snow in that discussion, made me wonder about the Susan Powell search also scheduled for April 10th in the west desert.

We just had 10" of snow here, two days ago. I don't know if it hit out in the west desert also, but it's mostly still on the ground here -- melting a bit during the day and compacting into a frozen block of Sno-Cone slush that I can walk on top of.
If conditions are like that in the west desert, it makes no sense to search for SP on Saturday.

 

[liz b.]

I haven't posted here in a long time,because I had nothing valuable to add to the discussion.I have been reading, though. So it looks like Steven's family might finally get to bring him home.I do hope so. I just want to say that I am so impressed with the posters here ; some highly competent, smart people worked on this search.

If this tip does lead to Steven, I personally will always believe that he was lured and harmed. Absent some rock solid forensic evidence which proves otherwise,that is my belief....

 

[laytonian]

I haven't posted here in a long time,because I had nothing valuable to add to the discussion.I have been reading, though. So it looks like Steven's family might finally get to bring him home.I do hope so. I just want to say that I am so impressed with the posters here ; some highly competent, smart people worked on this search.

If this tip does lead to Steven, I personally will always believe that he was lured and harmed. Absent some rock solid forensic evidence which proves otherwise,that is my belief....

Heya! Good to see old-timers dropping in

Let's not put the stamp on this one, until he's found. It's a big area and we don't know the nature of the tip.

 

[liz b.]

Good Morning Laytonian,
Some questions surrounding the tip, but the PI sounds like he'll find SK. He must have so many sources in the area...

 

[sbakker]

I haven't posted here in a long time,because I had nothing valuable to add to the discussion.I have been reading, though. So it looks like Steven's family might finally get to bring him home.I do hope so. I just want to say that I am so impressed with the posters here ; some highly competent, smart people worked on this search.

If this tip does lead to Steven, I personally will always believe that he was lured and harmed. Absent some rock solid forensic evidence which proves otherwise,that is my belief....

I do agree with you !

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks.
The mentions of snow in that discussion, made me wonder about the Susan Powell search also scheduled for April 10th in the west desert.

We just had 10" of snow here, two days ago. I don't know if it hit out in the west desert also, but it's mostly still on the ground here -- melting a bit during the day and compacting into a frozen block of Sno-Cone slush that I can walk on top of.
If conditions are like that in the west desert, it makes no sense to search for SP on Saturday.

Yep, West desert got that snow too. Seems to be melting fast. Very sloppy though. I too was wondering how that would affect the SP search.

 

[webrocket]

If this was a tip about criminal activity, it would have been given to police immediately (it's illegal to hide evidence of a crime).

The only thing I can think of, that would specifically lead to that area, would be if the PI had finally been able to "triangulate" that last phone ping.

Well...there's one other thing but I don't believe a reputable retired Las Vegas police detective would fall for it (you know, "the number 3, airplanes, and a fence" kinda thing).

The area IS where we've previously speculated Steven could have walked towards, if he'd seen the mountains in the distance,
It's logical for this illogical case, so a tip could reinforce the credibility.

Assume the last ping did come from the area of the airport. That does not translate into a body in my book. Let's suppose he ran off with someone who had access to a private plane. I'm not sure of all FAA regulations but I don't think they monitor the identities of people in purely private planes.

So it is possible that he checked his voicemail from the airport before hopping on a flight to his new life. I say this only if the ping came from the airport area.

 

[laytonian]

Assume the last ping did come from the area of the airport. That does not translate into a body in my book. Let's suppose he ran off with someone who had access to a private plane. I'm not sure of all FAA regulations but I don't think they monitor the identities of people in purely private planes.

So it is possible that he checked his voicemail from the airport before hopping on a flight to his new life. I say this only if the ping came from the airport area.

OK, let's suppose that.

How did they make contact?

Why would he check his voicemails from the airport area "very early" in the morning?

The plane would already have had to be waiting AND fueled, because fueling is only open at that airport from 0530 to 2130.

Why wait so long, to fly out, since Steven was "available" at noon? Why have Steven wait 12 hours, before taking him away?

A scenario like this is obviously one of the few that allows us to imagine Steven is still alive, and it's heartwarming. I can understand why you propose that. But (and this is ONLY me), I always see logic flaws.

The main logic flaw?

Why not just pick Steven up at his home in St George, and take him away from the St George airport...so close to where he lived?

 

[webrocket]

OK, let's suppose that.

How did they make contact?

Why would he check his voicemails from the airport area "very early" in the morning?

The plane would already have had to be waiting AND fueled, because fueling is only open at that airport from 0530 to 2130.

Why wait so long, to fly out, since Steven was "available" at noon? Why have Steven wait 12 hours, before taking him away?

A scenario like this is obviously one of the few that allows us to imagine Steven is still alive, and it's heartwarming. I can understand why you propose that. But (and this is ONLY me), I always see logic flaws.

The main logic flaw?

Why not just pick Steven up at his home in St George, and take him away from the St George airport...so close to where he lived?

we can all speculate up the wazoo and I am doing that too.

Suppose he met Big Daddy Warbucks (BDW) online. St. George airport would be way too close for comfort if trying to get out of dodge. I am assuming that BDW has some connection to LV (though not SCA) even though he may only have part time residence there.

Even if the airport people don't know who is on those small private planes, they should know who was taking off and landing. Maybe LE should check the flight records for say the one hour after the ping was received (again assuming the ping was from the airport). If Steven left town with BDW by plane, then they might be able to get a short list of names for that hour.

 

[laytonian]

Even if the airport people don't know who is on those small private planes, they should know who was taking off and landing. Maybe LE should check the flight records for say the one hour after the ping was received (again assuming the ping was from the airport). If Steven left town with BDW by plane, then they might be able to get a short list of names for that hour.

I think that's a valid thing to check on. They'd at least have tail numbers or (whatever you call it) that automatic transponder record, even if no flight plan was filed.

 

[Lato]

Webrocket.....BDW is one of my favorites....makes me smile. Speculating up the wazoo is second...lol.

Perhaps the tip is not about remains but about anything SK was carrying...like wallet, keys, cell phone...that he discarded before leaving. Did the PI get his tip from
someone at the airport who found the wallet, for example.

Or, if suicide is really a possibility, then the tip might come from an associate in St. George.

I have a real hard time with the thought of someone (a tipster) saying that Steven's remains are near the airport...and the Henderson PD is not interested. Who in the heck
knows that there is a body and that the person there committed suicide and the PI
will take a group of people out there to check it out....8 am on Saturday morning.

Again, I think we know so little of what is really happening....

 

[carbuff]

It's very common for ranchers and other rural residents to have small planes to get around, since driving takes so long. Picking someone up by airplane would be quite normal.