NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

[sbakker]

If he is in a homeless shelter, he may not know where he is, who he is, etc. if he is ill. There are so many people in shelters, that are very ill. And nobody knew they were that ill. I hate to keep talking about my family, but my sister was in a homeless shelter in Salt Lake for over a year, and I did not know where she was. It happens!

 

[Fairy1]

Those pics are interesting. It's an odd area for a homeless camp, though. There is a large homeless population in Vegas, but not that far out. I hope LE is checking it out right now. If, by chance, there is any connection to Steven, I'd rather they have the opportunity to go through it before the search tomorrow.

 

[laytonian]

That campsite is southwest of where Steven was last seen, and in the opposite direction that Steven took, but I still think it should be checked out.

The poster of the pictures did say he called LE and they were sending someone out.

Approximate location of the camp, based on the reported neighborhood. The satellite view may be old, because it looks like there may have been construction beginning -- so figure a bit west.

Based on the half-decipherable map in the St George paper today (the one with the tiny yellow pushpins), the location looks like it's well within the search area.

I hope Mr Bunn also called the PI, who would be able to readily identify certain items.

 

[RubyRed]

Just on the news ABC in Salt Lake, a tip came in today, that someone matching steven's description was seen seen at a homeless shelter. They are following the lead.

That would be the best outcome of all the scenarios.

 

[laytonian]

If he is in a homeless shelter, he may not know where he is, who he is, etc. if he is ill. There are so many people in shelters, that are very ill. And nobody knew they were that ill. I hate to keep talking about my family, but my sister was in a homeless shelter in Salt Lake for over a year, and I did not know where she was. It happens!

...and even though the family checked, I doubt the shelters really try very hard to "find" people, because they're advocates.

(sbakker knows how the SLC system worked for many years, when the solution was to keep them on the streets and in Pioneer Park, give them meals, and a bed only in the winter - rather than housing them fulltime. Luckily, the system has changed towards individualism within the last couple of years.)

 

[sbakker]

Approximate location of the camp, based on the reported neighborhood. The satellite view may be old, because it looks like there may have been construction beginning -- so figure a bit west.

Based on the half-decipherable map in the St George paper today (the one with the tiny yellow pushpins), the location looks like it's well within the search area.

I hope Mr Bunn also called the PI, who would be able to readily identify certain items.

Do you think that was the tip for the search tomorrow?

 

[laytonian]

Just on the news ABC in Salt Lake, a tip came in today, that someone matching steven's description was seen seen at a homeless shelter. They are following the lead.

I hope it's not one of those circular leads, based on what someone read here about homeless camps and IHOP -- BUT, just because the target of that search didn't show up at IHOP, doesn't mean it wasn't Steven. They disregarded the tip because the man put saran wrap on his IHOP seat? (That's exactly what I'd expect someone with a sudden mental snap to do.)

AND....I hope it's not intended to disrupt tomorrow's search.
OR that someone didn't call it in, based on the "homeless camp" photos here.

Why NOW?

 

[laytonian]

Do you think that was the tip for the search tomorrow?

I don't think so.

If someone had previously found that camp, the location would be easy to find because it's so close to those homes.

 

[paris_paris]

The guy that posted the photos said it looked like someone was living there 2 weeks ago. So he found the site 2 weeks ago?

I wonder if that's the tip the PI is going on. It's near the airport. But the tip was Steven's "body" would be found there. Is that right?

----------

edit: Oh laytonian, there's an echo in here.

 

[Fairy1]

...and even though the family checked, I doubt the shelters really try very hard to "find" people, because they're advocates.

(sbakker knows how the SLC system worked for many years, when the solution was to keep them on the streets and in Pioneer Park, give them meals, and a bed only in the winter - rather than housing them fulltime. Luckily, the system has changed towards individualism within the last couple of years.)

I wish I could say that's the case here, but it's not. There's just no where near enough room for everyone in the shelters. The homeless tend to congregate in the downtown (not the Strip) area, where the shelters and soup kitchens are. Once mealtimes are over, the majority of them scatter to the winds until it's time to line up again.

I would venture to say many of the homeless people in any city have mental issues that require managed care. But I doubt even a fraction get the help they truly need.

Perhaps with Steven's family being here this weekend, they can check it out themselves.

 

[RubyRed]

I hope it's not one of those circular leads, based on what someone read here about homeless camps and IHOP -- BUT, just because the target of that search didn't show up at IHOP, doesn't mean it wasn't Steven. They disregarded the tip because the man put saran wrap on his IHOP seat? (That's exactly what I'd expect someone with a sudden mental snap to do.)

AND....I hope it's not intended to disrupt tomorrow's search.
OR that someone didn't call it in, based on the "homeless camp" photos here.

Why NOW?

That is what I was thinking, no tips, then suddenly two of them.

 

[Fairy1]

I hope it's not one of those circular leads, based on what someone read here about homeless camps and IHOP -- BUT, just because the target of that search didn't show up at IHOP, doesn't mean it wasn't Steven. They disregarded the tip because the man put saran wrap on his IHOP seat? (That's exactly what I'd expect someone with a sudden mental snap to do.)

AND....I hope it's not intended to disrupt tomorrow's search.
OR that someone didn't call it in, based on the "homeless camp" photos here.

Why NOW?

BBM

I agree. And just so ya know, I took the IHOP route home from work today. I never have been one just to take someone's word for it.

 

[laytonian]

I wish I could say that's the case here, but it's not. There's just no where near enough room for everyone in the shelters. The homeless tend to congregate in the downtown (not the Strip) area, where the shelters and soup kitchens are. Once mealtimes are over, the majority of them scatter to the winds until it's time to line up again.

I would venture to say many of the homeless people in any city have mental issues that require managed care. But I doubt even a fraction get the help they truly need.

Same here for the ones who want to live on the street. Many like the lifestyle and their friends. But most do get SSDI and they can use those benefits to pay a small price for renovated housing. A clean room. No one requires them to stop drinking, either, in the test housing -- it's to keep them from committing crimes, give stability, and it seems to be working.

When I'm in charge of the world, I'll figure it's cheaper for taxpayers to take care of the helpless, than the pay for the crimes, treatment, drugs, treatment, and other stopgap measures.

Perhaps with Steven's family being here this weekend, they can check it out themselves.

I think it would be better for someone else to do it. If Steven's in a homeless camp, he set out there on purpose to avoid his family....and did so in a very organized way.

Why leave the car in SCA? Why not leave it downtown or in a casino parking lot? How do you get to a homeless camp from SCA? Call a cab and tell the driver to take you to one?

Every option in this case, I can talk myself out of.

 

[Fairy1]

That is what I was thinking, no tips, then suddenly two of them.

It is odd, isn't it? But sometimes, when it rains, it pours. Then again, there are plenty of crackpots who get their jollies by throwing BS out there just to see what happens.

I'm hoping between the PI, LE and the family, these new developments can be checked out ASAP.

 

[laytonian]

The guy that posted the photos said it looked like someone was living there 2 weeks ago. So he found the site 2 weeks ago?

I wonder if that's the tip the PI is going on. It's near the airport. But the tip was Steven's "body" would be found there. Is that right?
---------
edit: Oh laytonian, there's an echo in here.

Heh. Just me talkin' to myself.

Right: the tip is that "Steven's body" would be found in that area.

The camp. Someone was living there two weeks ago. UP UNTIL two weeks ago or BEGAN two weeks ago? Maybe they're going by the items not being wet. The tent's collapsed, yet whoever was there just abandoned it. It's your house. You don't give away your shopping cart if you live downtown; why would you abandon your tent home? It's not like you couldn't carry it all with you.

 

[sbakker]

I hope it's not one of those circular leads, based on what someone read here about homeless camps and IHOP -- BUT, just because the target of that search didn't show up at IHOP, doesn't mean it wasn't Steven. They disregarded the tip because the man put saran wrap on his IHOP seat? (That's exactly what I'd expect someone with a sudden mental snap to do.)

AND....I hope it's not intended to disrupt tomorrow's search.
OR that someone didn't call it in, based on the "homeless camp" photos here.

Why NOW?

I agree with you too!

 

[laytonian]

That would be the best outcome of all the scenarios.

Except it's their right to live on the streets, to avoid their families, to stay "lost".

Unless you could get a court order to put your family member in a psychiatric hold, you could be charged with a felony if you tried to "kidnap" them.

If a psychiatric hold was long enough to get a diagnosis that the person was a danger to themselves or society, they perhaps could be committed to an institution. But then there's the issue of paying for it. I guess you get them declared disabled, and hope SSDI and Medicaid will help you take care of them.

Oh, man. I hope he just walked away. I'm starting to think mentally ill and homeless might be the worst scenario.

There I go. Talking myself out of another one. :banghead::banghead:

My husband will be SO glad when this case is over, and there's not another man in our lives.

 

[carbuff]

Those pics are interesting. It's an odd area for a homeless camp, though. There is a large homeless population in Vegas, but not that far out. I hope LE is checking it out right now. If, by chance, there is any connection to Steven, I'd rather they have the opportunity to go through it before the search tomorrow.

Earlier, when we were researching potentially related cases in the Las Vegas area, we found a lot of unidentified homeless men who were killed in flash floods. Apparently camping in arroyos like this is pretty common.

 

[Fairy1]

Same here for the ones who want to live on the street. Many like the lifestyle and their friends. But most do get SSDI and they can use those benefits to pay a small price for renovated housing. A clean room. No one requires them to stop drinking, either, in the test housing -- it's to keep them from committing crimes, give stability, and it seems to be working.

When I'm in charge of the world, I'll figure it's cheaper for taxpayers to take care of the helpless, than the pay for the crimes, treatment, drugs, treatment, and other stopgap measures.



I think it would be better for someone else to do it. If Steven's in a homeless camp, he set out there on purpose to avoid his family....and did so in a very organized way.

Why leave the car in SCA? Why not leave it downtown or in a casino parking lot? How do you get to a homeless camp from SCA? Call a cab and tell the driver to take you to one?

Every option in this case, I can talk myself out of.

There you go with the logic again! Isn't it you who consistently reminds us not to apply logic to an obviously illogical situation?

If Steven did suffer some type of mental break, our attempts to make sense of it are futile.

Back in October, I was at an event downtown and I met a young homeless man. He was just about to turn 25. I asked him where his "people" were and he said he didn't know. Said he thought his mom might be in Florida, but he wasn't sure. I asked him where he was from and he said he had been in Colorado. He was very evasive with his answers to some of my questions. He said he didn't do drugs or drink. Someone had given him $20 and you'd have thought he hit the lottery! But I saw him use that money to buy food. Lots of food and NO alcohol, though it was there. So I gave him some more $$$. And I told him there were people who could help him. The longer we chatted, the more agitated he became. Some of his mannerisms led me to believe he was autisic on some level.

The next day, I scoured the missing persons boards searching for him. He had told me his name and I searched everywhere I could think of trying to find someone looking for him. No such luck.

I mention this only because I do believe this kid was just in need of health care - not rehab. Alone in the world and fending for himself.

Not all of these people have drug or alcohol addictions. Sometimes, they just fall through the cracks.

 

[laytonian]

Earlier, when we were researching potentially related cases in the Las Vegas area, we found a lot of unidentified homeless men who were killed in flash floods. Apparently camping in arroyos like this is pretty common.

...or they died, and their remains kinda washed down in the floods. But you're right, that's how some of the UN-ID'd were discovered.