GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[SeeAlice]

I realize we don't have much to go on but I sincerely have no reasons to put much faith in any of the witnesses.

I have seen probable cause affidavits that had inaccurate, incomplete and/or nonspecific/vague information contained within them... Information that was proven to be untrue long before trial ever commenced. It didn't allow the defendants to be un-arrested and they were still tried for the charged crimes. Police and prosecutors do what they can with what they have.

I need a lot more information from and about the witnesses to the alleged confession - including their relationships with the victim's family and the defendant - before I am comfortable putting much faith in their statements to police.

After the twists and turns and zigs and zags we've seen so far, I hope you understand my reluctance.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I realize we don't have much to go on but I sincerely have no reasons to put much faith in any of the witnesses.

I have seen probable cause affidavits that had inaccurate, incomplete and/or nonspecific/vague information contained within them... Information that was proven to be untrue long before trial ever commenced. It didn't allow the defendants to be un-arrested and they were still tried for the charged crimes. Police and prosecutors do what they can with what they have.

I need a lot more information from and about the witnesses to the alleged confession - including their relationships with the victim's family and the defendant - before I am comfortable putting much faith in their statements to police.

After the twists and turns and zigs and zags we've seen so far, I hope you understand my reluctance.

I agree completely. From day one I wondered the motives of EN's witnesses. And the M's aren't saints in my book. I'd love to research these people. I already tried to find info on all of the witnesses from both sides.

After eliminating so many things out early on and then realizing big things, like TM was in the car, shouldn't have been eliminated, I've decided to just work with what's there and sift through it over and over again until more evidence surfaces.

 

[newone]

I agree completely. From day one I wondered the motives of EN's witnesses. And the M's aren't saints in my book. I'd love to research these people. I already tried to find info on all of the witnesses from both sides.

After eliminating so many things out early on and then realizing big things, like TM was in the car, shouldn't have been eliminated, I've decided to just work with what's there and sift through it over and over again until more evidence surfaces.

bbm: we don't have any witnesses ((per MSM))....at this point....MOO

the three phantom riders in the gray audi have yet to surface ..... ((if they exist))

 

[Miss Muffet]

bbm: we don't have any witnesses ((per MSM))....at this point....MOO

the three phantom riders in the gray audi have yet to surface ..... ((if they exist))

I understand and agree. I meant the two witness statements in the warrant about what EN told them. I'm looking forward to the identity of the Audi driver, but I highly suspect he has cut a deal with the DA's office already. If so, I wont' trust much of what he says either. Maybe we can match it all up to something. We really wont' know much until the trial it seems.

 

[al66pine]

.... I meant the two witness statements in the warrant about what EN told them. I'm looking forward to the identity of the Audi driver, but I highly suspect he has cut a deal with the DA's office already. If so, I wont' trust much of what he says either....

sbm bbm

Miss M and others
Welcome aboard my bandwagon of sceptics.

 

[Miss Muffet]

No. I thought he may have been paid to represent Bob & the kids. (Yeah, sounds kinda ridiculous to me, too, now that I type it out, LOL.)

It's not ridiculous for you to wonder that. I believe victims should get their own attorneys. Especially family members of murder victims since family are always suspects. I was a victim as a young adult. The DA's office tried coaching me to embellish/lie. I complained to my parents. My father talked to a corporate lawyer at his company for advice. He was said he felt all victims should have lawyers to protect their interests. and referred my father to someone. He was a great guy and did a fantastic job protecting my interests.

He may be hoping to get a gig commentating on this case when it goes to trial though.

True. True. When it happens, we can say, "Alice said it first on WS!"

 

[Miss Muffet]

Welcome aboard my bandwagon of sceptics.

:loveyou:

 

[fjlee]

EN said he saw a car circling around in the school parking lot. EN has been kicked out of school, mother kicked him out several times and major drug user. I think the police know more and that's why he has been charged with 1st degree. Maybe the victim tried to go back to talk some smarts to him. Most times i'm going after what doesn't make sense. But this was a kid ready to explode and he did

 

[SeeAlice]

I'm sure it will be eternity just to drive us all crazy!!! :tantrum:

Yep. Still waiting on autopsy for Erin Corwin who vanished June 28, McStay family whose bodies were found over a year ago (both in CA), Jessica Chambers who died after an auto fire Dec 6 (MS), Beverly Carter, the Realtor kidnapped and murdered in AR in Sept... the list goes on & on. (Yes, it's made some of us crazy in the interim, LOL.)

I don't know discovery rules for Nevada but in Florida (IIRC) as soon as evidence is turned over to opposing counsel in a criminal cases, it's automatically public record. (Somebody please tell me it's the same in Nevada!)

 

[sonjay]

Blindsided reminds me of a problem I have with the timeline where BM places the buick when he noticed the Audi stopped at the first shooting scene is essentially the same place TM and KM stopped to switch seats at 2250. That's too much of a coincidence.

I agree, too much coincidence. That's another part of why I don't believe the driving lesson/road rage story. It's part of why I originally thought KM & BM were in the car together for the chase & shootout -- but it could instead be an indication that KM, TM and BM all three were in the car together for the chase & shootout.

But a hell of a lot of time transpires between 2250 and 2322:88 that's unexplainable if the first shooting really happened at 2250.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that the first shooting happened at 2250. The statements in the arrest affidavit narrate the first shooting, then they all go to the cul de sac (possibly by different routes), then the shootout in the cul de sac.

 

[SeeAlice]

EN said he saw a car circling around in the school parking lot. EN has been kicked out of school, mother kicked him out several times and major drug user. I think the police know more and that's why he has been charged with 1st degree. Maybe the victim tried to go back to talk some smarts to him. Most times i'm going after what doesn't make sense. But this was a kid ready to explode and he did

Hello, fjlee.

 

[sonjay]

I believe EN was the shooter as well and I think he committed Voluntary Manslaughter (as opposed to Murder that he's currently charged with). I lean towards some kind of two-trip theory where the Buick was out engaged in some kind of nefarious business including around the school, which EN needlessly panicked as nobody in the Buick cared about him, the Buick had some kind of incident with the silver car that had nothing to do with driving lessons, the Buick then went home to get armed and hunt the silver car and then the shootings happened with it being coincidental that EN was in the car. There are of course weaknesses in this theory, like one that jumps out is how EN could be so surprised that he killed TM, but finding weaknesses and uncertainties in theories is why I haven't settled on one.

BBM. I have problems embracing the sheer number of coincidences in such a scenario.

Especially since we have reason to believe that EN would have recognized the green Buick as belonging to the Meyerses, and we have reason to believe that the Meyerses knew that EN hung around the park doing business.

I could buy a two-trip theory if it didn't contain so many coincidences; e.g., they meet up with EN at the park for a deal, things go sour, they leave to go get BM's gun. When they come back, EN knows they're after him, he calls the Audi driver, and then car chases and shootings happen.

 

[sonjay]

Yes, it is possible. I believe they are making up some story to cover something up, just I haven't settled on what exactly they're covering up and what they were doing that caused them to invent the story.

I too believe they're making up a story to cover something up.

It appears that they really didn't want anyone to know that they knew EN and knew he was the shooter. Based on that, I tend to believe that they're covering up something that had to do with EN. I can't prove it, but it feels logical to me. Let's compare:

Non-EN related: The Meyerses were up to something nefarious that night -- something that had nothing to do with EN. Somehow, they ended up in a car chase and shootout with EN. Subsequently, they didn't tell police for a solid week that EN was the shooter and that they knew him. They only admitted they knew EN on the day he was arrested.

EN related: The Meyerses were up to something nefarious that night involving EN. This results in a car chase and shootout with EN. Subsequently, they didn't tell police for a solid week that EN was the shooter and that they knew him. They only admitted they knew EN on the day he was arrested.

In the non-EN related scenario, there's no logical reason whatsoever for the Meyerses to keep secret their relationship with EN.

In the EN related scenario, there's a reason to keep that secret. They don't want police to know that they instigated the whole thing.

I could be off base here, but that's my reasoning on why I think they really were "after him" when EN saw the Buick. I don't think any of it was coincidence.

 

[BellaVita]

"Anyone with information may contact Metro’s homicide section at 702-828-3521, I have information and it is that the family's entire story is bull ship! Charge them all with false information to police, and the son with attempted murder!" (14 days ago)

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/l...initially-called-road-rage#comment-1865143085

Quote from linked article:

Letting the public know his family knew Nowsch earlier “would’ve hurt what these good Metro detectives were trying to accomplish,” Robert Meyers Sr. said.

“There was things that couldn’t be said. Things that had to be said certain ways to get what we had done today, because there is more than one guy” involved in the shooting.

I know this statement has been often discussed but I think some things bear repeating. Because a lot of posters feel that the M's had no idea that EN was in the Audi. If they didn't know he was in the Audi, then the M's would not have that piece of info to withhold. I have no quarrel with the idea that the public doesn't need to know everything, but why not tell police? I may not be explaining myself clearly, but what I'm trying to point out is that the M's KNEW that EN was RELEVANT to the investigation. The M's can't lie their way out of a paper bag. Shades of the Anthony family, for sure. IMO.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, too much coincidence. That's another part of why I don't believe the driving lesson/road rage story. It's part of why I originally thought KM & BM were in the car together for the chase & shootout -- but it could instead be an indication that KM, TM and BM all three were in the car together for the chase & shootout.



I haven't seen anything to suggest that the first shooting happened at 2250. The statements in the arrest affidavit narrate the first shooting, then they all go to the cul de sac (possibly by different routes), then the shootout in the cul de sac.

BBM

I have wondered if they were all together because it makes sense to me that they would ALL go to the other brothers Bday party. They seem like a close family that would celebrate birthdays together. JMO

 

[sonjay]

Quote from linked article:

Letting the public know his family knew Nowsch earlier “would’ve hurt what these good Metro detectives were trying to accomplish,” Robert Meyers Sr. said.

“There was things that couldn’t be said. Things that had to be said certain ways to get what we had done today, because there is more than one guy” involved in the shooting.

I know this statement has been often discussed but I think some things bear repeating. Because a lot of posters feel that the M's had no idea that EN was in the Audi. If they didn't know he was in the Audi, then the M's would not have that piece of info to withhold. I have no quarrel with the idea that the public doesn't need to know everything, but why not tell police? I may not be explaining myself clearly, but what I'm trying to point out is that the M's KNEW that EN was RELEVANT to the investigation. The M's can't lie their way out of a paper bag. Shades of the Anthony family, for sure. IMO.

Good points, and I totally agree.

Yes, the Meyerses knew EN was in the car. And EN knew it was the Meyers' green Buick. This was a chase and a shooting between parties who knew each other, fueled by some conflict between them.

I can't embrace any theory that has the Meyerses getting into a road rage incident with some random Audi that coincidentally happened to have their neighbor as a passenger, then deliberately concealing the fact that they knew EN was in the Audi, and then making a statement like the one above.

They knew EN was in the Audi, and they chased it because they knew EN was in the Audi. And they didn't want police to know that, because they know that they instigated the incident that resulted in TM's death that night.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Quote from linked article:

"Letting the public know his family knew Nowsch earlier “would’ve hurt what these good Metro detectives were trying to accomplish,” Robert Meyers Sr. said. “There was things that couldn’t be said. Things that had to be said certain ways to get what we had done today, because there is more than one guy” involved in the shooting.

I know this statement has been often discussed but I think some things bear repeating. Because a lot of posters feel that the M's had no idea that EN was in the Audi. If they didn't know he was in the Audi, then the M's would not have that piece of info to withhold. I have no quarrel with the idea that the public doesn't need to know everything, but why not tell police? I may not be explaining myself clearly, but what I'm trying to point out is that the M's KNEW that EN was RELEVANT to the investigation. The M's can't lie their way out of a paper bag. Shades of the Anthony family, for sure. IMO.

It's interesting he e qualifies that all with the part I bolded. I think it's noteworthy LD is standing behind him, in support of him. It looks to me like they knew exactly what RM was going to say in the news conference before he started speaking. I still need more information to form a final opinion on this issue.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Blindsided reminds me of a problem I have with the timeline where BM places the buick when he noticed the Audi stopped at the first shooting scene is essentially the same place TM and KM stopped to switch seats at 2250. That's too much of a coincidence. But a hell of a lot of time transpires between 2250 and 2322:88 that's unexplainable if the first shooting really happened at 2250.

It couldn't have happened at 22:50 because LE knows the time of the first shooting. There would have been 911 calls. I'm also confident LE bothered to check camera video from streets all over the M's route between 2210 and 2322:88. LE didn't meticulously get the details of the driving routes for the heck of it and not look for evidence to verify the buick was roughly where KM and BM said it was in their statements.

Yes, if it took 5-10 minutes to drive the alleged BM route, that would mean that at least 20 minutes were spent at home. I'd think the school in particular would have cameras showing footage, so I hope LE has info for the school times.

How much time did you allow for the first shooting? It couldn't have been more than thirty seconds to a minute and half for EN to fire those shots depending on how fast he shot them. LE found 6 cartridges at Villa Monterey and Alta.

On a side note, I just noticed the bullet with blood on it at Mt. Shasta. If a bullet remained in TM's head, doesn't that mean she had another bullet wound? As far as I know, nobody else was wounded at the scene.

Yes, the shooting would have been quick. I'm not sure one way or the other if they're talking about the same bullet or a different bullet.

 

[Miss Muffet]

EN said he saw a car circling around in the school parking lot. EN has been kicked out of school, mother kicked him out several times and major drug user. I think the police know more and that's why he has been charged with 1st degree. Maybe the victim tried to go back to talk some smarts to him. Most times i'm going after what doesn't make sense. But this was a kid ready to explode and he did

Where the M's current friends with EN very recently? I got the impression from RM's statements that EN was an ex-friend of the M's children well into the past, and that EN was no longer a part of the M's lives. All of the "help" RM said TM did for EN seemed to be past tense to me.

 

[BellaVita]

I feel RM is making superfluous statements trying to obscure the real point of the ever changing stories. One sign of a bad liar is constantly adding small details to explain all your other mistruths. The M's have also claimed they learned of EN's involvement through social media and that's why they went to his home. But still no reporting of this to police by the M's. Maybe police monitored social media too. I still think the M's knew EN was in the car at the time of the shooting. IMO.