GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[sonjay]

I carry a Glock 36 in .45.
It's only 27 oz fully loaded with a factory single stack magazine and one in the chamber.
I run a pierce +1 extension which gives me an extra round in the magazine, so let's say 30oz.
The gun is very light, very compact. I carry nearly 90% of the time and forget its even there half the time.
Little difficult to be accurate shooting single handed but a few advanced handgun courses I have been in we had to shoot a few magazines one handed (to simulate an injury to either hand) and its very doable up to 12-15 Yrds.

We don't know what kind of .45 EN had. Mogg said Ruger, but didn't specify the particular model. My .45 is a Ruger P90 - big, heavy and built like a tank. I'm sure there are people who carry a P90, but it wasn't designed for carry.

Let's face it, EN is/was not any type of marksman. He had a very, very, very lucky shot. My bet is that he wasn't even aiming at all and was basically just throwing lead downrange.

I totally agree with this. He wasn't aiming. The scene in the cul de sac sounds like pure spray-and-pray.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I woke up. This case is literally keeping me up at night,

My thoughts:

1) is it possible TM went to the park for the point of disrupting EN's "business" there?

2) Is it possible the Meyers were the ones threatening EN?

I'm imagining a scenario where TM is fed up with drug dealing in her neighborhood, and that night she is in a mood for a fight... And emboldened, she drove to the park (with X as a passenger) for the point of harassing EN and disrupting his night at the park.


I'm also thinking the first incident with the man who said he was going to kill them never happened.

I suspect BM did flash his gun at EN.

I'm also imagining a scenario where the Meyers have the upper hand over EN and are threatening him and trying to run him off his turf.

Still so many pieces missing. I still feel like KM's story is partially/completely embellished.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm still in the process of reading the GJ Transcript and one thing that struck me, and maybe someone already posted this, sorry if I'm repeating it, but why would TM get out of the car when shots are being fired? BM pushed her back in the car, closed the door for her safety then she gets out and gets shot?

But the car door, the driver's side door --
A. Oh yes, it was closed.
Q. The driver's side door was closed where you
just shoved your mom in?
A. Yes.
Q. And then when you, then you immediately ran
to the front door or the front area of your home?
A. Yes.

I just finished asking the same question. Maybe seeing BM run away made her think that was a good idea or made her feel like an abandoned sitting duck. It is perplexing she did that since she survived by ducking down at the for scene.

 

[Steleheart]

I carry a Glock 36 in .45.
It's only 27 oz fully loaded with a factory single stack magazine and one in the chamber.
I run a pierce +1 extension which gives me an extra round in the magazine, so let's say 30oz.
The gun is very light, very compact. I carry nearly 90% of the time and forget its even there half the time.
Little difficult to be accurate shooting single handed but a few advanced handgun courses I have been in we had to shoot a few magazines one handed (to simulate an injury to either hand) and its very doable up to 12-15 Yrds.

Let's face it, EN is/was not any type of marksman. He had a very, very, very lucky shot. My bet is that he wasn't even aiming at all and was basically just throwing lead downrange.

BBM:
YUP. Doable for an experienced, disciplined and well practiced shooter. IMO that doesn't even include most LE. And gang bangers don't even know what recoil means. So yes;
throwing lead downrange,,, :laughing:

I especially like how people think you can hold that weapon sideways and still hit what you intended. Under fire. With adrenalin pumping. and FEAR.

But criminals seldom get trained and licensed. heh.


:cow:

 

[sonjay]

I'm still scratching my head about why son would feel need to open mother's door at all.......he got out of car and went to driver's side to open her door.....was there a problem with her door handle not working??

Seriously she could have gotten out -- was she having a problem with her mobility?

I'd have to guess sheer panic at that point, and just not thinking clearly. Maybe she was doing the usual woman's thing of picking up purse, putting keys in purse, etc., and BM's in panic mode trying to get her out of the car and into the house as fast as possible. They had just been shot at; they were experiencing extreme stress. It's very hard to think clearly and rationally in that kind of situation.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm still scratching my head about why son would feel need to open mother's door at all.......he got out of car and went to driver's side to open her door.....was there a problem with her door handle not working??

Seriously she could have gotten out -- was she having a problem with her mobility?

Does it say he opened her door in this GJ testimony? I recall that was what he said in the warrant, but I think it was slightly different this time. Even if he did, it's possible she was in shock when they first arrived and didn't realize the other car had followed them. Maybe she was sitting in the drivers seat freaking out instead of moving her to get out.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Thank you! You're right. He wasn't aiming. My husband was answering from the viewpoint of someone who would be aiming. He did say he felt it was possible after practicing. I do agree EN was just shooting randomly like a drive-by shooting.

Who do you think is more likely to have shot first? Do you think the angle the car was heading down the street might have delayed EN from shooting until after BM shot off a few rounds?

Then again, EN did say he was shooting at someone who was running towards the house and BM said he was running for the house and took cover behind the truck after shots were fired. I tend to believe BM on that point. Unless it happened quickly. BM was running for the house but decided to take cover behind the truck and fired rounds.

Why did TM get out of the car instead of ducking down? I guess seeing BM running for the house might have made her feel like a sitting duck with nobody there to protect her.

Can you give an opinion on the unfired cartridge on the passenger seat? Do you think it's likely he tried to fire at the first shooting scene when EN saw a gun pointing out the window and it jammed. And BM ejected it but couldn't start shooing because EN was already returning fire?

I think his gun was chambered from the earlier incident where EN reports the other car as having flashed a gun.

In the shootout, he forgot he had chambered it and chambered it again, which knocked the first live round out of the gun.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I woke up. This case is literally keeping me up at night,

My thoughts:

1) is it possible TM went to the park for the point of disrupting EN's "business" there?

2) Is it possible the Meyers were the ones threatening EN?

I'm imagining a scenario where TM is fed up with drug dealing in her neighborhood, and that night she is in a mood for a fight... And emboldened, she drove to the park (with X as a passenger) for the point of harassing EN and disrupting his night at the park.


I'm also thinking the first incident with the man who said he was going to kill them never happened.

I suspect BM did flash his gun at EN.

I'm also imagining a scenario where the Meyers have the upper hand over EN and are threatening him and trying to run him off his turf.

Still so many pieces missing. I still feel like KM's story is partially/completely embellished.

I can't speculate until I've read the entire document myself. I'm relying on your notes tonight. The document reader on my computer quit working. I'll use one of the other laptops tomorrow. Usually I'm up all night, but I'm having a hard time staying awake tonight. I must not be feeling well because this case usually keeps me wide eyed.

 

[newone]

Does it say he opened her door in this GJ testimony? I recall that was what he said in the warrant, but I think it was slightly different this time. Even if he did, it's possible she was in shock when they first arrived and didn't realize the other car had followed them. Maybe she was sitting in the drivers seat freaking out instead of moving her to get out.

He opened it and then pushed her back in and closed the door -- will find it....

pg 39

"She put the vehicle in park, I rushed out
of the passenger side, went to the driver's side, tried
to pull my mother out of the car, and then as I was
pulling her out I saw headlights coming down Carmel Peak'"

pg 49 (continues)

"so I pushed her inside.
Q. Why did you push your mom back into the
car?
A. For safety".

 

[Miss Muffet]

I think his gun was chambered from the earlier incident where EN reports the other car as having flashed a gun.

In the shootout, he forgot he had chambered it and chambered it again, which knocked the first live round out of the gun.

Are you saying you think he did shoot at the first shooting scene? Or you think he chambered it at the first shooting scene and rechambered it after they drove away? You're saying "in the shootout" but he wasn't in the car when the shootout occurred at the second shooting scene. That's why I think the cartridge in the passenger seat indicates he did shoot while he was in the car at some point.

 

[Miss Muffet]

He opened it and then pushed her back in and closed the door -- will find it....

I believe you. Don't go to the trouble. I think she was in shock. I can imagine he felt protective of her and the need to get her to safety.

 

[sonjay]

EN to Mogg on the day he was arrested:

He said that there were some people after him that had threatened to skin his cat, his little sister and his mother. And then he also described another person by the name of Stan who I have not been able to identify yet as someone who was also threatening him based on some other incident involving I believe it was Stan's children.

Bob's good friend Stan? Selig? That Stan?

 

[Hiandmighty]

Are you saying you think he did shoot at the first shooting scene? Or you think he chambered it at the first shooting scene and rechambered it after they drove away? You're saying "in the shootout" but he wasn't in the car when the shootout occurred at the second shooting scene. That's why I think the cartridge in the passenger seat indicates he did shoot while he was in the car at some point.

Yes, good point! Hum. I need to sit on this tonight.

It's possible LE has been following up on this small but sticky detail.

How did the live round get in TM's car from her son's 9 mm?

 

[newone]

TM's fatal wound was through and through ((no answer in GJ documents re evidence)) no indication of which bullet though at this point

p 115

"A. Perforating gunshot wound to the head.
Q. When you say perforating, what does that
mean?
A. The bullet entered and exited."

from same testimony Det M
indicates that live 9 mm round could be explained that BM was nervous in car and had difficulty loading gun


pg 116
''he at that point attempted to load his firearm by racking the slide and he said that he was ducking down, he was very scared, and he may
have racked it more than once which would mean a live cartridge would be ejected from the gun."

 

[sonjay]

Yes, good point! Hum. I need to sit on this tonight.

It's possible LE has been following up on this small but sticky detail.

How did the live round get in TM's car from her son's 9 mm?

BM told Mogg:

He told me that at the time that the shots were fired toward his vehicle from the suspect's vehicle down at Alta and Villa Monterey that he at that point attempted to load his firearm by racking the slide and he said that he was ducking down, he was very scared, and he may have racked it more than once which would mean a live cartridge would be ejected from the gun.

I have no personal knowledge about whether BM is telling the truth about that. I will say that his explanation is entirely plausible, IMO.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Who is Mogg?

 

[PaperDoll]

I'm still scratching my head about why son would feel need to open mother's door at all.......he got out of car and went to driver's side to open her door.....was there a problem with her door handle not working??

Seriously she could have gotten out -- was she having a problem with her mobility?

I wondered why he did that, too. However, maybe it's just a natural reaction wanting to check on your mom making sure she gets out of the car safely???? If I were TM and I would have been out of that car so fast that I wouldn't need anyone helping me out. Maybe she was in shock???? But why get out of the car during the gun fire unless she really didn't know what was going on????? Maybe everything happened so fast...

 

[Hiandmighty]

Yes, good point! Hum. I need to sit on this tonight.

It's possible LE has been following up on this small but sticky detail.

How did the live round get in TM's car from her son's 9 mm?

If BM did chamber it in the car at a different place from the home, it would seem to me to indicate premeditation on his part, no?

 

[Hiandmighty]

Who is Mogg?

LVPD detective.

 

[Matic]

Thank you! You're right. He wasn't aiming. My husband was answering from the viewpoint of someone who would be aiming. He did say he felt it was possible after practicing. I do agree EN was just shooting randomly like a drive-by shooting.

Who do you think is more likely to have shot first? Do you think the angle the car was heading down the street might have delayed EN from shooting until after BM shot off a few rounds?

Then again, EN did say he was shooting at someone who was running towards the house and BM said he was running for the house and took cover behind the truck after shots were fired. I tend to believe BM on that point. Unless it happened quickly. BM was running for the house but decided to take cover behind the truck and fired rounds.

Why did TM get out of the car instead of ducking down? I guess seeing BM running for the house might have made her feel like a sitting duck with nobody there to protect her.

Can you give an opinion on the unfired cartridge on the passenger seat? Do you think it's likely he tried to fire at the first shooting scene when EN saw a gun pointing out the window and it jammed. And BM ejected it but couldn't start shooing because EN was already returning fire?

Sorry. This phone has a lot of trouble navigating this forum for some reason.
I can't really answer any of the questions but I agree with....I believe it was "Sonjay"
That eluded to that he probably already had one in the chamber, forgot about it and
When he racked the slide a new round entered the chamber from the magazine thus
Tossing the unfired round that was already in the chamber onto the floor.