GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[sonjay]

I don't necessarily believe any of the stories in that I can see how there was two trips made, but not due to driving lessons. There is an important inconsistency in the description of the car from BM and KM. KM goes out of her way in saying the windows weren't tinted in being able to say she knew how many people were in the car, while BM says the windows were tinted - actually he says it twice in his testimony that the windows were tinted. That's two different cars they're describing and this was not a minor detail.

I think it's possible there were two trips by the Meyers that night. I've never been adamant (I don't think) that there weren't two trips. I just don't believe for a minute that there were driving lessons or some random road rage guy. That story has never made any sense at all. Even in the first couple of days after the shooting, people were questioning KM's story. And especially since it's changed so much -- almost no details have remained consistent.

They were practicing parallel parking. They were learning to merge and change lanes. They were at the school the whole time, then no, they left the school and went driving in the area north of the school.

There was a minor accident. No, it was just a near-miss.

It was a white driver and two black dudes. No, it was two guys in the car. No, it was just the driver.

The car followed them home and shot at them and BM came running out of the house to return fire. With a shotgun. No, with a handgun. No, the silver car didn't follow them home, they escaped and went home to get BM and his gun.

Even her description of the route they took -- that wouldn't have been on their way home from the school. That would have been way out of their way. It doesn't make any sense.

There was no driving lesson that night, IMO.

I seriously doubt there were two different cars. I think one of them is either mistaken or lying about the tinted windows. My money's on KM being the mistaken or lying one, but I think it could go either way.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

With what we have right now, I feel like it is M1. He confessed that he shot at Brandon while he was running away from him. That kid needs to never see the outside of a prison again.

Shooting someone running away is not the definition of M1 and you'll note that EN isn't on trial for the murder of BM and that BM was brandishing a weapon. This is the legal definition of M1 in Nevada and why I say that confession doesn't measure up to M1:

1.  Murder of the first degree is murder which is:
(a) Perpetrated by means of poison, lying in wait or torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing;
(b) Committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of sexual assault, kidnapping, arson, robbery, burglary, invasion of the home, sexual abuse of a child, sexual molestation of a child under the age of 14 years, child abuse or abuse of an older person or vulnerable person pursuant to NRS 200.5099;
(c) Committed to avoid or prevent the lawful arrest of any person by a peace officer or to effect the escape of any person from legal custody;
(d) Committed on the property of a public or private school, at an activity sponsored by a public or private school or on a school bus while the bus was engaged in its official duties by a person who intended to create a great risk of death or substantial bodily harm to more than one person by means of a weapon, device or course of action that would normally be hazardous to the lives of more than one person; or
(e) Committed in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of an act of terrorism.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-200.html

I just don't see 'willful, deliberate and premeditated' as the confession is not saying that while it has complications of its own, like if there really was another Meyers in the car that the Meyers have been covering up about. The 'heads' have to be explained if the confession is to be considered valid and if turns out there was three or more people in the car at the time the Buick chased the Audi and there was two or more people in the car after Brandon left it, that changes things. If there's a passenger in the car in addition to the driver, for all EN knows it is that passenger who brandished the weapon on him so for all EN knows he shooting at a still-armed car. What EN is saying in his confession with shooting at BM was that he wanted to be sure that the Buick crew didn't get even more armed than they already were.

 

[sonjay]

Shooting someone running away is not the definition of M1 and you'll note that EN isn't on trial for the murder of BM and that BM was brandishing a weapon. This is the legal definition of M1 in Nevada and why I say that confession doesn't measure up to M1:

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-200.html

I just don't see 'willful, deliberate and premeditated' as the confession is not saying that while it has complications of its own, like if there really was another Meyers in the car that the Meyers have been covering up about. The 'heads' have to be explained if the confession is to be considered valid and if turns out there was three or more people in the car at the time the Buick chased the Audi and there was two or more people in the car after Brandon left it, that changes things. If there's a passenger in the car in addition to the driver, for all EN knows it is that passenger who brandished the weapon on him so for all EN knows he shooting at a still-armed car. What EN is saying in his confession with shooting at BM was that he wanted to be sure that the Buick crew didn't get even more armed than they already were.

Based on what I've seen vis-a-vis EN's statement to LE, what he told ZA & KK, and what BM himself said, he was truly in fear that night. He tried to flee. They chased him. I think those facts are nearly indisputable. IMO, manslaughter at the very most. I don't see any way it could possibly be M1. Personally, I think he's got a good chance at outright acquittal.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I can't even think of a different word the transcriptionist could have mistaken it for that makes sense in the context of the testimony, not to mention that Brandon repeated the words

Exactly.

Just as it makes more sense to kneel down on a floorboard than to lean back, it makes even more sense to kneel down outside a car than to kneel down inside a car.

It would be impossible for TM to kneel down with the size of her body and the steering wheel. I used to own a similar car--different make and model but similar. I'm a slender woman, and I always had trouble sleeping in the drivers seat at rest stops because there wasn't room between the wheel and the seat for turning my body.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm having trouble with my "thanks" button. I'm getting error messages when I hit it. I need to reload the page each time for the thanks button to work. Since I'm having a 50/50 shot in it reloading (and when posting), it's becoming a PITA. Is anyone else having this problem with this forum? Maybe I need to delete cookies and restart my computer or something.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Based on what I've seen vis-a-vis EN's statement to LE, what he told ZA & KK, and what BM himself said, he was truly in fear that night. He tried to flee. They chased him. I think those facts are nearly indisputable. IMO, manslaughter at the very most. I don't see any way it could possibly be M1. Personally, I think he's got a good chance at outright acquittal.

It may be M2 when otherwise it would be Manslaughter as I think shooting from inside a car turns it legally into an inherently reckless act, which would fit the definition of M2. I could see a plea deal from M2 to Manslaughter, but I see no reason to deal on M1. I could see things going either way with a jury, which I just wish it was more clear what EN was saying as to why he went into the cul-de-sac as we're still only getting it second-hand. I do definitely think EN was scared and didn't want a fight, just I can't say that everything he did due to his fear was acceptable. If there was three or more people in the Buick that could really change things. Based on what EN is alleged to have confessed to, it isn't even clear that Brandon was in the front passenger seat, but he could have gotten out of the backseat passenger side. I think if there's some video footage establishing more than two people in the Buick, that EN will definitely get off, but if not then I can't say for sure.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I'm having trouble with my "thanks" button. I'm getting error messages when I hit it. I need to reload the page each time for the thanks button to work. Since I'm having a 50/50 shot in it reloading (and when posting), it's becoming a PITA. Is anyone else having this problem with this forum? Maybe I need to delete cookies and restart my computer or something.

I get that occasional as well

 

[jjenny]

Exactly.

Just as it makes more sense to kneel down on a floorboard than to lean back, it makes even more sense to kneel down outside a car than to kneel down inside a car.

It would be impossible for TM to kneel down with the size of her body and the steering wheel. I used to own a similar car--different make and model but similar. I'm a slender woman, and I always had trouble sleeping in the drivers seat at rest stops because there wasn't room between the wheel and the seat for turning my body.

Why exactly does that make any difference whatsoever?

 

[Miss Muffet]

If EN takes a plea, I hope it involves intense duel mental health and drug rehab treatment. I don't think 5 or 10 years in jail would be appropriate. I think he needs to be in a mental health hospital to get proper treatment. No good will come to him or society if he's just sent to jail. His mental health will just deteriorate more.

Isn't it amazing that EN is such a sympathetic defendant? And the Meyerses are not sympathetic victims?

 

[Hiandmighty]

Was he talking about the Buick driving past his (EN's) house, or was the Audi driving past EN's house? Ok I'm not quite sure now where EN lives, I thought it was on the same side of the street as the park, and if so he is only a few houses down from that and the Meyers would not have actually past EN's house to get to Mt. Shasta because Mt. Shasta and Carmel Peak is the beginning of where the park starts, or ends depending on what direction you are coming from.

I read it as the shortcut was to EN's house.

 

[SStarr33]

Shooting someone running away is not the definition of M1 and you'll note that EN isn't on trial for the murder of BM and that BM was brandishing a weapon. This is the legal definition of M1 in Nevada and why I say that confession doesn't measure up to M1:

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-200.html

I just don't see 'willful, deliberate and premeditated' as the confession is not saying that while it has complications of its own, like if there really was another Meyers in the car that the Meyers have been covering up about. The 'heads' have to be explained if the confession is to be considered valid and if turns out there was three or more people in the car at the time the Buick chased the Audi and there was two or more people in the car after Brandon left it, that changes things. If there's a passenger in the car in addition to the driver, for all EN knows it is that passenger who brandished the weapon on him so for all EN knows he shooting at a still-armed car. What EN is saying in his confession with shooting at BM was that he wanted to be sure that the Buick crew didn't get even more armed than they already were.

As I stated, I am going on the evidence we have right now. According to EN, a weapon was not brandished in front of their home and he chased them there with his gun that he had previously admitted to shooting during an encounter that happened just moments prior. You are dreaming if you think that is anything but M1.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Why exactly does that make any difference whatsoever?

It makes a huge different if what BM is describing isn't even physically possible for TM to do while in the driver's seat.

 

[SStarr33]

If EN takes a plea, I hope it involves intense duel mental health and drug rehab treatment. I don't think 5 or 10 years in jail would be appropriate. I think he needs to be in a mental health hospital to get proper treatment. No good will come to him or society if he's just sent to jail. His mental health will just deteriorate more.

Isn't it amazing that EN is such a sympathetic defendant? And the Meyerses are not sympathetic victims?

It's amazing to me that anyone would think that, lol.

 

[SStarr33]

Based on what I've seen vis-a-vis EN's statement to LE, what he told ZA & KK, and what BM himself said, he was truly in fear that night. He tried to flee. They chased him. I think those facts are nearly indisputable. IMO, manslaughter at the very most. I don't see any way it could possibly be M1. Personally, I think he's got a good chance at outright acquittal.

How can you be acquitted when you chase someone and murder them?

 

[Hiandmighty]

BBM

Brandon says :
"And do you live there?
A. Yes."

^^^^ page 24

Krystal says:

"And how many people lived in that home along with you and your mother?
A. Four.
Q. Could you tell me the names of the individuals that live there?
A. Susan Meyers, Robert Meyers, Robert Meyers Jr. and me, Kristal Meyers."

^^^^^ page 9

 

[sonjay]

Yes, it really is amazing to me. This little love fest for an alleged drug dealer accused of killing a mother of four amazes me to no end.

What's amazing to me is the notion that anyone thinks it was perfectly okay for that mother of four to get her son, tell him to arm up, and go out hunting for someone who wasn't bothering anyone.

By all accounts, EN was at the park, not bothering anybody, and the Meyerses came up in their car, threatened him, and chased him. He fled. That didn't work. He shot, and they fled -- but then when he was trying to go home, he saw their car passing close by his house, and quite logically he continued to feel in danger.

What EN did, he did on the spur of the moment, out of actual fear.

What TM & BM did, they did on purpose with deliberate intent.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I think it's possible there were two trips by the Meyers that night. I've never been adamant (I don't think) that there weren't two trips. I just don't believe for a minute that there were driving lessons or some random road rage guy. That story has never made any sense at all. Even in the first couple of days after the shooting, people were questioning KM's story. And especially since it's changed so much -- almost no details have remained consistent.

EN does seem to say that in that he wouldn't even get in the car until after he was sure the green car had left, which I think he probably got in the car on Cherry Creek with the car facing eat and then it looped around to face west on Ducharme when the Buick re-appeared some time later, which I think during this time may be when the Buick went back to get armed though even hearing further testimony it still is fuzzy where the Buick went and what exactly they were doing.

At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the
area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of
his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting,
Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the
other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a
cream colored four door vehicle. He said they were
sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden
the green car came around behind them again, and they
pulled away, he said the green car started chasing them,
described how they went down a street, and then he said
at one point he was waving his pistol out the passenger
window of the car that he was in up in the air and he
couldn't believe that the car that was behind him didn't
see that and stop and just go away.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I know. I am not sure why this thread is allowed to go on, with relentless victim bashing and adoration for her accused killer.

Are you honest to goodness still wanting to use that word "adoration".

Is EN not presumed innocent until proven guilty?

 

[sonjay]

How can you be acquitted when you chase someone and murder them?

"Murder" is a legal term, and to date EN has not been convicted of murder. It's inappropriate at this point to refer to it as "murder."

 

[jjenny]

What's amazing to me is the notion that anyone thinks it was perfectly okay for that mother of four to get her son, tell him to arm up, and go out hunting for someone who wasn't bothering anyone.

By all accounts, EN was at the park, not bothering anybody, and the Meyerses came up in their car, threatened him, and chased him. He fled. That didn't work. He shot, and they fled -- but then when he was trying to go home, he saw their car passing close by his house, and quite logically he continued to feel in danger.

What EN did, he did on the spur of the moment, out of actual fear.

What TM & BM did, they did on purpose with deliberate intent.

When you described alleged drug selling as not bothering anybody, I don't have anything else to discuss with you.