GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[PaperDoll]

On re-reading Mogg's testimony about what EN said, I think I misinterpreted EN's route after leaving Alta.

I think Mogg is saying this: From Villa Monterey, the Audi turned west onto Alta. As the Audi was passing Carmel Peak, EN looked north on Carmel Peak and saw the Buick turning south onto Carmel Peak from Cherry River.

At that point, I think EN had the same impression as what I said earlier: He could see that the Buick had taken Cherry River to within a couple houses of his and turned south onto Carmel Peak. He perceived that as driving "past" his house. Mogg testified that EN "couldn't believe they were driving past his house."

Then he told the Audi driver the comment about knowing a "shortcut" to his house. The Audi was at that point west of Carmel Peak and traveling west on Alta. The Audi turned around and went to Carmel Peak, where they turned north and followed the Buick into the Mt. Shasta cul de sac.

This makes sense, I think. Cimarron is a major road, and that's probably what the Audi driver would have taken to get to EN's house. Carmel Peak is a little bitty road — there are so many cul de sacs in that neighborhood, the Audi driver may not have known it went through to Cherry River, and EN would probably consider it a "shortcut."

This matches what Mogg said about the Audi's route, and also matches what BM said about the Audi coming north on Carmel Peak before turning onto Mt. Shasta. It also explains how the Audi "followed" the Buick to Mt. Shasta even though it actually took a different route than the Buick to get there.

Different route for the Audi than I thought. But same perceptions by EN about what the Buick was doing there.

The Buick was trying to get home.

EN was also trying to get home, and he was shocked when he saw the Buick drive "past" his house. EN will still trying to get away. EN had done nothing but try to get away; for the entire incident, EN was trying to get away.

Hell, as the Audi was heading north on Carmel Peak, EN may have told the driver "go left up here" meaning go left on Cherry River, and the driver instead turned left onto Mt. Shasta.

Who knows who opened fire first? Bob said it doesn't matter.

BBM: YES, that is how I think it went down It would be difficult for EN to make it to Cherry River and see the Buick driving The Meyers were, I'm sure, driving FAST to get home and it's not that far from Villa Monterey

 

[Hiandmighty]

On Mt. Shasta, how do we know who fired first?

 

[sonjay]

BBM: YES, that is how I think it went down It would be difficult for EN to make it to Cherry River and see the Buick driving The Meyers were, I'm sure, driving FAST to get home and it's not that far from Villa Monterey

I know you've driven that neighborhood -- if that makes sense to you, I think that's the route that I'm going to run with.

There's still room, of course, for honest disagreement about EN's perceptions and intentions, and who was in the Meyers Buick, etc., but I think at least we've got the route figured out. That's been bugging me, because I've been unable to visualize it.

 

[sonjay]

On Mt. Shasta, how do we know who fired first?

We don't.

BM said the Audi passenger fired first.

EN either said that no one shot back at him, or didn't say either way -- depending on which person's statement you're reading.

Probably EN shot first in the cul de sac. There's no hard evidence either way.

RM has said it doesn't matter. This bothers me.

ETA: EN clearly was mistaken if he said that no one shot back at him. We know that BM did fire 3 times in the cul de sac. Perhaps the Audi was already screeching out in reverse when BM fired, and EN was unaware that BM had fired.

We can't believe BM. EN possibly won't testify. We may not ever get clarification on that point.

 

[SStarr33]

On Mt. Shasta, how do we know who fired first?

Because that is what Erich said

 

[PaperDoll]

I know you've driven that neighborhood -- if that makes sense to you, I think that's the route that I'm going to run with.

There's still room, of course, for honest disagreement about EN's perceptions and intentions, and who was in the Meyers Buick, etc., but I think at least we've got the route figured out. That's been bugging me, because I've been unable to visualize it.

LOL, this whole incident has me confused.. I've driven through the area so I can have some of my facts straight when I post But then again, I could still be wrong so you go with your gut feeling as well .. . You guys make really good points on what you think happened

 

[SeeAlice]

I have over 10 pages to catch up on so please forgive if this has already been discussed:

There were a number of media outlets on-scene as the SWAT team, chopper, PA system, etc. were first being used to encourage EN to come out of the house.

I actually laughed at them all for assuming it was related to TM.

At first LE was only saying he was threatening to harm himself, I think. According to his mother, she had called cops because she was worried he was suicidal. (IIRC.) Dispatch transmissions regarding the same person being a suspect in the shooting on Mt. Shasta would have been done via non-public radio channels or perhaps via text messages. (LE doesn't broadcast SWAT activity, for good reason.)

JMO - Somebody tipped off the media - specifically Sara Sider of CNN - and I don't believe it was LE. Furthermore, I don't think LE would have told BM about it in advance.

Just something (another thing) I find curious.

JMO.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Mogg's testimony about what EN said concerning where the car went doesn't make sense.

We talked about this previously---how heading down Alta, turning right onto Mt. Carmel and making a left too soon on Mt. Shasta could explain how they ended up on Mt. Shasta while taking a shortcut to EN's house with the turns stated by Mogg.

But that doesn't match the evidence that the Audi was in the surveillance video heading East on Cherry River.

It's hard for me to give any weight to Mogg's testimony. Making sure details of statements match evidence is his specialty. Since testifying in court is a routine part of his job, we can't excuse it away as being inexperienced or nervous. He had plenty of time to review all of the statements and evidence to determine what fit together and what didn't. It's entirely possible Mogg misinterpreted what EN said.

 

[Hiandmighty]

We also don't know when Brandon's live jacket popped out.

The defense will be able to expand on these issues to create doubt.

 

[newone]

We don't.

BM said the Audi passenger fired first.

EN either said that no one shot back at him, or didn't say either way -- depending on which person's statement you're reading.

Probably EN shot first in the cul de sac. There's no hard evidence either way.

RM has said it doesn't matter. This bothers me.

ETA: EN clearly was mistaken if he said that no one shot back at him. We know that BM did fire 3 times in the cul de sac. Perhaps the Audi was already screeching out in reverse when BM fired, and EN was unaware that BM had fired.

We can't believe BM. EN possibly won't testify. We may not ever get clarification on that point.

bubm: yes...in the beginning, RM was furious (as per MSM) that this occurred at their home....I saw this as a ''cya'' moment -- just in case his son did fire first -- he was being the ''protective dad'' at that point MOO

 

[Miss Muffet]

On Mt. Shasta, how do we know who fired first?

We'll never know. Nobody will ever be able to prove that. It's going to come down to which witness the jury believes.

 

[PaperDoll]

Mogg's testimony about what EN said concerning where the car went doesn't make sense.

We talked about this previously---how heading down Alta, turning right onto Mt. Carmel and making a left too soon on Mt. Shasta could explain how they ended up on Mt. Shasta while taking a shortcut to EN's house with the turns stated by Mogg.

But that doesn't match the evidence that the Audi was in the surveillance video heading East on Cherry River.

It's hard for me to give any weight to Mogg's testimony. Making sure details of statements match evidence is his specialty. Since testifying in court is a routine part of his job, we can't excuse it away as being inexperienced or nervous. He had plenty of time to review all of the statements and evidence to determine what fit together and what didn't. It's entirely possible Mogg misinterpreted what EN said.

Do we really know that video is the actual car that is in question? Are we really certain that the car is actually on Cherry River? I'm having a hard time making out the video because it's dark out and on my end not very clear. Is this video in evidence? I may have missed it

 

[SStarr33]

I have over 10 pages to catch up on so please forgive if this has already been discussed:

There were a number of media outlets on-scene as the SWAT team, chopper, PA system, etc. were first being used to encourage EN to come out of the house.

I actually laughed at them all for assuming it was related to TM.

At first LE was only saying he was threatening to harm himself, I think. According to his mother, she had called cops because she was worried he was suicidal. (IIRC.) Dispatch transmissions regarding the same person being a suspect in the shooting on Mt. Shasta would have been done via non-public radio channels or perhaps via text messages. (LE doesn't broadcast SWAT activity, for good reason.)

JMO - Somebody tipped off the media - specifically Sara Sider of CNN - and I don't believe it was LE. Furthermore, I don't think LE would have told BM about it in advance.

Just something (another thing) I find curious.

JMO.

The media had been swarming the neighborhood since the day after the event. Check the media thread for how it all went down.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

JR seems to be the sweet insecure soul in the family.

Aside from when he wants to beat up road ragers and has have his sister hold him back

It's a stretch to say that TM was the one running towards the house when her body was found on the ground next to the car.

It's EN's confession that the last person he fired upon was running and it's BM testimony that as soon as the bullets started to fly he stopped running and went behind a truck, which he fired from behind there and after he got firing from behind there the Audi left and only then did he leave his position. Read BM's sequence of events and read EN's sequence of events as to who he fired upon and you'll see it had to be someone besides BM that was running...maybe it was RM Jr rather than TM, but per BM it couldn't have been him as once he got behind the truck he didn't move from where he was until after the Audi drove off.

 

[SStarr33]

bubm: yes...in the beginning, RM was furious (as per MSM) that this occurred at their home....I saw this as a ''cya'' moment -- just in case his son did fire first -- he was being the ''protective dad'' at that point MOO

Erich and Brandon's stories match. It was not a CYA moment.

 

[PaperDoll]

We also don't know when Brandon's live shell popped out.

The defense will be able to expand on these issues to create doubt.

Here is what we do know this far: The Audi fired the 1st round at the 1st shooting scene, which IMO doesn't really matter if BM fired the 1st shot in the cul-de-sac since he can now claim self defense. He knew the Audi had a gun because it was fired at them and so they retreat and go home. The Audi pursued them into THEIR cul-de-sac which would raise a red flag to the Meyers. They, too felt threatened at that point.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

BBM: This is what I don't understand and again I drove this route. The Meyers would have been at their house already, pulling in the driveway, before EN ever hit Cherry River unless they drove at a really high rate of speed along with no traffic. So that now brings me to why EN would tell the driver he knows a short cut to his house since he was already on Cherry River. Gosh, I hope I'm making sense here.. lol My hubby keeps coming in a talking when I'm in the middle of typing this. UGH!

As I understood it the Audi went west on Alta and the Buick went west on Cherry River. On or about intersecting Carmel is when TM said to go north Cimarron and then east on Cherry.

 

[jjenny]

We'll never know. Nobody will ever be able to prove that. It's going to come down to which witness the jury believes.

EN told his friends he wasn't shot at, according to KK. That will very likely be allowed in court since it's a confession and thus goes under hearsay exception.

 

[PaperDoll]

As I understood it the Audi went west on Alta and the Buick went west on Cherry River. On or about intersecting Carmel is when TM said to go north Cimarron and then east on Cherry.

Alta and Cherry River run the same direction and both will eventually end up at Cimarron if driven far enough. When you say TM do you actually mean EN? and is this during the 1st shootout? I'm confused by what you are saying...

 

[Hiandmighty]

Here is what we do know this far: The Audi fired the 1st round at the 1st shooting scene, which IMO doesn't really matter if BM fired the 1st shot in the cul-de-sac since he can now claim self defense. He knew the Audi had a gun because it was fired at them and so they retreat and go home. The Audi pursued them into THEIR cul-de-sac which would raise a red flag to the Meyers. They, too felt threatened at that point.

I'm not really standing behind this point, but I want to make it anyway:

It's not THEIR cul de sac. Cul de sacs are still public streets. I know people who live on them feel like they have a greater right to privacy because if you don't know someone who lives there, there is no reason to be on the street.

With all their cars, I believe the M's probably "claim" all the street curving in front of their house, etc...

It's not their street any more than Cherry River is EN's street....

One more thought: how do we know Brandon didn't set up behind the dually and start shooting the moment the audi turned on to public Mt. Shasta or shortly thereafter.


I'm talking this out....