GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[PaperDoll]

To me 20 seconds still seems like an incredibly long time not to have vacated the car by then and been inside. I tested it myself where I used a stopwatch from inside my garage with my car door closed from the driver's side. I then ran the long way around behind my car, opened the door inside to simulate that part and was able to run the length of my downstairs to getting to my stairs, ran up my stairs and before 20 seconds were up I had already used up all the space I had and stopped running. The average walking speed of a senior citizen is about 4 feet a second, which even if TM's fastest speed was a senior citizen speed walk due to some mobility issues and also giving 10 seconds seconds to get out of the car for those same mobility issues, TM would have been 40 feet away from the car. It is RM rather than TM that has known disabilities, but even if TM has similar mobility issues 20 seconds is awfully long time to still be in the car.

http://www.usroads.com/journals/p/rej/9710/re971001.htm

I didn't factor in once the Meyers got home, the time it would take to get in the house, I factored in the drive only. These are approx. time I quoted and a lot depends on speed of the car and driving conditions, traffic, people out and about. The speed limit on Alta in that general area is 30 to 35 mph. I'm sure the Buick and Audi were going much faster than that. Again, these are approx. times I gave for I didn't have a stop watch, I was gaging by my car clock along with a general idea. I was also driving in daylight where there were a few cars out so I had to consider that.

 

[PaperDoll]

I agree it would be very difficult to see who was in the park at night, just that there was someone there, especially since he says he was moving around. Movement makes it easier to see things in the dark, and the human figure is easy to distinguish.

Not to send you off to take more pictures, but I wonder what the view of the school parking lot looks like from the park.

BBM: LOL, actually I'm not as hesitant to take pictures like I was at the beginning. When I drove by there the 1st few times, there were too many people out (baseball game at school), then another time there was a police officer parked on Cherry River so I didn't want to draw too much attention to myself, not that I would or anyone cared but still, I knew what I was doing.. SNOOPING!! lol

 

[BellaVita]

What it shows me is Brandon deep down really had no violent tendencies. If so he had a perfect opportunity to show that when being fired upon by EN repeatedly.

Yes, if a gun has to be drawn then the owner should be fully aware that they may have to use it. Although in most cases the mere pointing of the weapon toward the criminal is enough to make them freeze or run away which stops the violence from occuring.

But I do not agree totally that this is the time 911 should be called. All of this was acting at lightning speed. Even if they had called 911 by the time they saw the Audi' headlights coming toward their home there wouldn't be enough time for the police to arrive, and stop the shooting from happening. LE are mostly a reactive agency. By the time they arrive the damage is done. Just like in home invasions were perps force entry or talk their way in. The gun owner only has seconds to react and has no time to call 911.

Responding to bolded:I understand it was lightning speed from first shooting scene to the house. That is where the hothead M family trait comes in. Normal people do not get involved in stuff like this. Both BM and TM have on record that they have participated in this type thing before the night TM was shot. The only choice for the M's was to remain at home, not go hunting.

So Brandon did the correct and only thing he could do concerning the situation when EN and the unknown driver came to their home. He shot his weapon at that time. That is totally self defense. In fact it would have been legally justifiable if he had shot first when he was on his own property. He and his mom had already been shot at before at another location by these same people who were now closing in on him and his mom when they were 20 feet away from their front door.
IMO

I agree. If I was BM I would have fired first no matter what. The flip side is that if the jury has a reasonable doubt as to who shot first at the house, it COULD be self-defense for EN. The M's were the original aggressors. They found the Audi sitting , minding its own business and gave chase. It would take careful reading of statutes to determine all that and don't pretend to have all the answers regarding that. Even lawyers are not all going to agree. IMO.

Apologies for the crazy quoting. The REPLY/QUOTE features were not working properly.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I believe Bessie posted previously that it was OK

Thanks! I believe we're allowed to talk about what we see, but we're not allowed to link it.

Jongepier has a myspace account with about 35 pictures. The pictures aren't dated. They appear to be over 5 years old to me, like 7th thru 9th grade age range. No weapons. Partiers. Skateboarders. Lots of people wearing bandanas, but the bandanas are of various colors, no particular color indicating gang-wear. I haven't had a chance to see if any of the faces match anyone we've been talking about---for example Nowsch or any of the M's.

The only visible tattoo anyone has is a skateboard tattoo. I showed it to my son magnified and he said "independent skateboard tattoo" without my telling him they were skateboarders. I looked it up, and he's right. My kid sure knows his tattoo meanings, and he doesn't have one tattoo. LOL

I haven't been able to find facebook, twitter or instagram for him yet. If anyone finds one, please send me a link.

 

[SeeAlice]

I admit it - I am terribly jaded when it comes to "neighbors" being interviewed by media. In one case a few years ago, I looked up the names of all the "residents" and tracked each one down. Most never lived in the subdivision where the crime occurred or even the city. ALL were affiliated with an activist group.

Anonymous sources are generally about as worthwhile as the name they give. Remember the Malaysian airplane that crashed and was never found? Every single day for weeks, one reporter or another had exclusive information from "anonymous sources close to the investigation." Guess what? Not a single one panned out. Many, many other examples around.

These days, I want every reporter to check the IDs of the people they interview on the scene of "breaking news." I want every single guest and commentator and anonymous "neighbor," "witness," and "unnamed police official" vetted before their words are published or aired. I want their claims double or even triple sourced if they prefer to remain anonymous. Won't ever happen in this age of instant news, I'm afraid. They don't even bother publishing an editor's note on the stories that contained patently false information.

JMO

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I didn't factor in once the Meyers got home, the time it would take to get in the house, I factored in the drive only.

Yes, you got them home and then I timed from there once they stopped. There was a 20 second differential in arrival times, so I timed myself personally and I also go the average walking speeds. Of course arrival times are going to be different depending on circumstances, so that's why I had a range from my personal time to treating TM like she had mobility problems to provide a fudge factor range.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Remember the Malaysian airplane that crashed and was never found?

To paraphrase Don Lemon, is it possible that the Audi driver disappeared into a black hole?

 

[Miss Muffet]

With the Gaule case that has been discussed here previously, that happened only about a mile away from EN/TM's homes. I think that neighborhood has been slowly turning into a bad neighborhood.

Can you elaborate. I hadn't read those posts. Are you saying with the Gaule case (not familiar with it), the local kids/young adults started arming themselves because they were being intimidated by a real gang nearby? It's only a mile away? That's not very far as far as gang activity is concerned. In my city, a ghetto gang can cause trouble quite a few miles away from their neighborhood.

 

[SeeAlice]

To paraphrase Don Lemon, is it possible that the Audi driver disappeared into a black hole?

Are black holes where alternate universes and realities exist? If so, it's as good a theory as I've heard regarding this case.

(Sorry if the answer to my question above is no. I passed the 2 physics classes required to graduate from college but didn't understand a bit of that advanced theoretical stuff. Thank goodness all the tests were multiple choice and true-false only.)

 

[SStarr33]

Thank you so much for the photos!

Did you notice any cameras at the school?

 

[PaperDoll]

Yes, you got them home and then I timed from there once they stopped. There was a 20 second differential in arrival times, so I timed myself personally and I also go the average walking speeds. Of course arrival times are going to be different depending on circumstances, so that's why I had a range from my personal time to treating TM like she had mobility problems to provide a fudge factor range.

This is why I keep saying that I think the Audi driver took Alta heading towards Cimarron but looked down Carmel Peak, and that was when they saw the Buick going onto Mt. Shasta. The Audi u-turns and makes left on Carmel Peak, then Mt. Shasta, that would put them in the timing of TM and BM getting out of the car. Had the Audi taken the long way ot would have given the Meyers a bit more time to get in the house. Again, all this depends on speed of the vehicles, who left first at the 1st shooting, Buick or Audi? All these in-betweens play a factor. If all went in one smooth, fast get-a-way, then I think my timing is pretty accurate. If the Meyers were in no rush to get out of the car and into the house thinking they are now safe and the drivers are gone, then I can see the Audi taking the longer way and running into the Meyers as they were getting out of the car.

 

[PaperDoll]

Thank you so much for the photos!

Did you notice any cameras at the school?

DARN! I didn't I should make a list for the next time I'm in that area..

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Can you elaborate. I hadn't read those posts. Are you saying with the Gaule case (not familiar with it), the local kids/young adults started arming themselves because they were being intimidated by a real gang nearby? It's only a mile away? That's not very far as far as gang activity is concerned. In my city, a ghetto gang can cause trouble quite a few miles away from their neighborhood.

It was a burglary/battery where both the burglars were killed, which I was saying that the neighborhood was getting more crime. Thomas Gaul was tried for killing the second burglar since he chased the burglar 500 feet away from his home and shot him and it turned out he even knew one of the burglars he killed. He ended up getting Voluntary Manslaughter with only probation.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1998/dec/11/man-who-pursued-shot-intruders-indicted/
http://138.210.151.139/news/2000/apr/05/las-vegan-receives-probation-for-killing-burglar/

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm shocked at the amount of gang activity in Las Vegas.

Las Vegas Gang Info:

An estimated 20,000 street gang members and their associates prowl neighborhoods all over southern Nevada, the highest number for the valley yet. Metro Police said the number of known gangsters in Las Vegas has increased 10 percent in each of the past two years, and there are now almost 600 individual gangs.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/22212685/street-gangs-growing-evolving-in-las-vegas

There are 600 gangs in Las Vegas! Goodness. My city has about 5, if that. Vegas's population is double than my city, but my metro population is double Vegas's metro population.

Sgt. Will Huddler, who supervises the gang squad for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, says the lack of a father figure seems to be a recurring theme in boys that are initiated into gangs.

Huddler also says social media have changed the scene.

“The time it takes a molehill into a mountain when it comes to beef, it's like nanoseconds,” Huddler said. “Where it was before, tomorrow I'll find out what's going on, those days are over.”

Lt. Chris Petko, who is part of Metro’s Gang Unit, says bloody turf wars are largely a thing of the past now that new hybrid gangs have emerged -- groups of gang-bangers that operate with a certain autonomy -- both in their identity and location.

“There isn't a standard territory establishment in gangs much anymore,” Petko said. “We have areas of towns that have predominance, or we have areas of towns that have historical backgrounds for a gang or a particular group of gangs.”

Petko says as Las Vegas has changed, demographics have changed and people have changed – the Internet’s electronic connection is a cyber-gateway – a portal -- so now gang members are seen all over the valley.

However, gangbangers stay hyper-connected with just the click of a mouse or the touch of a handheld device.

http://www.mynews3.com/content/news...ocial-media-scott/elK5AbjJFUO9frujXKvLlg.cspx

 

[Miss Muffet]

With this said maybe the Meyers were covering up the fact that KM didn't have a learners permit and that is why the changes in the story, she didn't want to get in trouble???? maybe? I also thought if there was indeed a driving lesson, and I'm going with the fact here was, that she was the one who drove the whole time and lied about her mom taking over. First off honking the horn at someone while someone else is driving isn't really smart and I wouldn't be too please if my passenger honked my horn while I'm driving.

KM does have a learners permit. It's in the GJ transcript.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

This is why I keep saying that I think the Audi driver took Alta heading towards Cimarron but looked down Carmel Peak, and that was when they saw the Buick going onto Mt. Shasta. The Audi u-turns and makes left on Carmel Peak, then Mt. Shasta, that would put them in the timing of TM and BM getting out of the car. Had the Audi taken the long way ot would have given the Meyers a bit more time to get in the house. Again, all this depends on speed of the vehicles, who left first at the 1st shooting, Buick or Audi? All these in-betweens play a factor. If all went in one smooth, fast get-a-way, then I think my timing is pretty accurate. If the Meyers were in no rush to get out of the car and into the house thinking they are now safe and the drivers are gone, then I can see the Audi taking the longer way and running into the Meyers as they were getting out of the car.

There is conflicting testimony on who left first where BM says the Audi left first while EN per Mogg says the Buick left first. The longer TM stays in the car, the more it looks like she's repeating what she had done 10-20 minutes prior where in response to a death threat and the car driving by their home, TM felt safe enough to stay outside and get armed and go after the car that threatened her life. The more safe TM feels, the more it bolsters EN's claim that the Meyers didn't return home to end it but instead to further escalate it. TM went back out in the first place because the driver knew where they lived to keep it away from the house, so being shot at would only confirm her justification for going out armed in the first place rather than be a reason to leisurely go inside now that she's almost been killed.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I'm shocked at the amount of gang activity in Las Vegas.

Las Vegas Gang Info:


There are 600 gangs in Las Vegas! Goodness. My city has about 5, if that. Vegas's population is double than my city, but my metro population is double Vegas's metro population.

And that is only the ones they know of as LE admitted they didn't know about Alpha gang and had to start an investigation from scratch.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Alpha Block was inaccurate reporting. I'm finding info about Alta Block.

It seems to go back to 2011 or 2012.

People who attended high schools all over Clark County, even towards where PaperDoll lives.

Is Alta Block a rap studio without an address?

Not Alta Entertainment without the "block." That's unrelated.

I was inspired to search social media from the Vegas articles with LVPD mentioning how social media has changed the way gangs function there.

Here's an Alta Block CD with a picture of an Alta street sign on it: https://m.soundcloud.com/abvta

ABVTA = Alta Block ? ? ? = It seems the rapper's name is VTA, maybe. Yes! Yes! I found him. His name is Victory To Achieve.

Just look at the CD cover picture. Spare yourself listening to it. Not good rap IMO. OMG. I'm suffering. I'm on the third song. The fourth song isn't bad. This some terrible stuff. It's the usual rap ego hype, but many of the songs reference Alta Block, the block, the gang, different drug references--MJ, ecstasy, drugs is occupation, OH MY he's singing about packing heat now in the Ali Bomay song. That's the last song. Relief.

I wonder if this letter A in this picture means anything? It comes from a different guy. It's hat and pills. Could the letter A be their insignia? I've found two different guys associated with "Alpha Block" wearing that hat and another guy who has this hat and pills picture on as a profile picture. Does anyone remember any pictures with EN wearing a hat like that?

Anyone know what type of pills those are? I think it's generic Xanax.

We need to find Baby G's music. :thinking:

 

[SeeAlice]

KM does have a learners permit. It's in the GJ transcript.

During the police news conference announcing the 2-trip twist, I swear I thought the cop said KM didn't have her learner's permit and that was why she didn't want to admit driving on the residential streets near the park & the middle school parking lot.

(Heck, I might have just dreamed that part. This stuff seeps into your subconscious & haunts/bugs you until it makes some sense.)

 

[Miss Muffet]

During the police news conference announcing the 2-trip twist, I swear I thought the cop said KM didn't have her learner's permit and that was why she didn't want to admit driving on the residential streets near the park & the middle school parking lot.

(Heck, I might have just dreamed that part. This stuff seeps into your subconscious & haunts/bugs you until it makes some sense.)

Maybe I remember wrong, but I recall in her GJ testimony, the DA asked her if she had her learners permit and she answered yes.