GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[sonjay]

I will use your words from the other day:

What is so hard about reading the documents? Sorry, I have cut and pasted so many times. The explanation is right there. It is up to the reader to decide what they think but the reason is stated in black and white.

That works when a person actually has copied and pasted multiple times. You have not. You refuse to quote any relevant portions of the documents. You are badly mischaracterizing what was testified to.

 

[sonjay]

It is not in the testimony that EN deliberately chased the Buick onto Shasta. I would also like to see the testimony by BM that you are referring to. Please do not go off of recollection alone. If you are on a jury deliberating, your fellow jurors would ask you for concrete evidence and testimony to explain your position. Not just opinions you may have. If you would quote and discuss the specific testimony that is guiding your thoughts it would be more useful.

Well, we do have to remember that it's not possible to quote the specific portion of the document when there is no specific portion that backs up or supports what is being claimed.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Bizarrely, the bizarre coinkydink is that TM & BM, who apparently went out to do a little road-raging themselves, just happened to chase the wrong car, and the wrong car that they just happened to chase was a car that their neighbor coinkydentally happened to be riding in -- their neighbor who coinkydentally lives just about 500 feet away from them. Now, that is a bizarre coinkydink!

Yep, jurors tend to be logical in their analysis, and they ain't a-gonna buy that coinkydink.

No, the jurors are going to see that the Meyerses set out with a gun that night to stalk, threaten, terrorize and chase EN, who wasn't bothering anybody. They'll also see that EN tried to flee, but the Meyerses wouldn't let him get away. And they'll see that after EN finally resorted to using his gun to drive off his pursuers, he was trying to get home, and the driver of his car, who doesn't live in that neighborhood, somehow turned onto Mt. Shasta instead of onto EN's street.

Yeah, sure they will. :lol:

And when they just happened to turn on to that street magically (lol) lo and behold there was the green car and EN tried to kill all of them so say he.

I didn't see where EN said they mistakenly entered the cul-de-sac. Was that in the GJ testimony?

 

[PaperDoll]

Det. Mogg & DA Stanton




Luis Muldonado, who has lived on the same street as Andrews since 2013



Muldonado said he has seen Andrews driving two different sedans since meeting him in 2013, but never saw the silver Audi authorities say Andrews drove the day of the shooting.

SOURCE: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/erich-nowsch-s-suspected-getaway-driver-arrested

Per KK testimony EN said it was a silver Audi they drove:

There's another point where the detectives
ask you about what type of car Mr. Nowsch was in during
these events when he fired the gun and the detective
asked you whether or not he, Mr. Nowsch, specified the
make and model of the car. And your answer was "It was
a silver Audi and the car that they were shooting at was
green."
A. Yes.

 

[BellaVita]

I will use your words from the other day:

What is so hard about reading the documents? Sorry, I have cut and pasted so many times. The explanation is right there. It is up to the reader to decide what they think but the reason is stated in black and white.

I don't know if you've ever made a direct quote from the documents. If so, it's been rare. What I was referring to was the fact that I'd copied and pasted the same info over and over again. Page after page. If you have actually copied and pasted the same info repeatedly, I'd like to know about it. It is your job to back up your own claims. If you directly and repeatedly copy and paste so that other posters can understand your viewpoint better and it seems like they are just glossing over the info you have provided, then it is reasonable you would become exasperated and tell them to look it up. If you would provide direct quotes it may help your viewpoint. It would at least lead to more helpful, informative discussion.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Between the time of the first location (cooling down period) and the second one EN and also DA had plenty time to reflect and could have as easily chosen to go to EN or DAs home. They both knew the green car was no longer following them and they both knew no one in the green car fired at them. But instead both deliberately decided they would chase the green car down and EN would shoot the occupants.

Watch the CCTV footage and you'll see EN did go by EN's home just like how TM had done after the alleged road rage. Then you'll see them using flashlights to see that the car or gunmen on the streets weren't on Cherry River, so they did not know they weren't being followed and much like what TM is alleged to have done were checking around their neighborhood that the threatening car had left the neighborhood. If EN knows his neighborhood so well and there was not accidental driving and were just out to get the Buick and was not concerned that the Buick may still be after them, there was no reason for them to go by EN's home as that would have been the long way to the Buick instead of just instantly going on Carmel Peak to Mt Shasta rather than going half a mile out of their way from where they supposedly wanted to go if they intended to go to Mt Shasta upon seeing the Buick again.

 

[PaperDoll]

Welcome aboard, Meddlesome Kid :blowkiss:

 

[sonjay]

Yeah, sure they will. :lol:

Please provide a cite to any portion of any official document that supports your claim that DA & EN "both deliberately decided they would chase the green car down and EN would shoot the occupants."

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Yeah, sure they will. :lol:

And when they just happened to turn on to that street magically (lol) lo and behold there was the green car

You mean like when the Meyers happened to turn on Ducharme right by where the supposedly creepy person caused TM to cancel the driving lessons was and magically by that same location there's the road raging Audi that really isn't the road raging Audi while there's still supposedly this road rager out there who is out to kill the Meyers that by now knows where the Meyers live if he didn't know before.

 

[PaperDoll]

This is debatable. At first I thought EN had to have known the car. RM says he would have recognized it but the windows have recently been tinted. I've recently been observing old Buicks on the road and they're pretty big but non-descript. It's very possible the M's knew who was in the Audi. They were observing EN in the park. KM's testimony is interesting in that regard:

We were parked and we didn't move, we saw a
guy, he kept walking back and forth just like once, and
my mom looked at him but we didn't, we just rolled up
the windows and everything.

It's been stated that TM frequented the park. The comings and goings of different vehicles may have been familiar to her.

I still think EN would have known the green Buick and even more so once it was in front of the Meyers house. YOu are right, a Buick is non-descriptive like most cars today are but a dark green one? Most cars are silver/white/black and not many dark green. I can not see the Meyers keep track of all the car EN was in so I do not believe they would have known it was him in the car. Besides didn't EN say he didn't want to get in the car until the Buick left? How would the Meyers know EN got into a car?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It is not in the testimony that EN deliberately chased the Buick onto Shasta. I would also like to see the testimony by BM that you are referring to. Please do not go off of recollection alone. If you are on a jury deliberating, your fellow jurors would ask you for concrete evidence and testimony to explain your position. Not just opinions you may have. If you would quote and discuss the specific testimony that is guiding your thoughts it would be more useful.

Wow, I find some in this thread quite uptight.

I don't have to link anything when it is my stated opinion and I did notate it with 'iirc'.

Are you saying Brandon didn't say he could see the lights from the Audi coming toward their home?

Since when has WS become a court of law and we are jurors?

Opinions are allowed here or they have been the 11+ years I have been a member.

And please since your aren't a Moderator here don't tell me how I have to post. I certainly don't tell any posters how they must post and never will. It's rather condescending to do so, imo and seems extremely controlling.

If you don't like my opinions then the options are simple. Scroll and roll or put me on ignore. Whether you read my posts isn't really important to me anyway.

IMO

 

[BellaVita]

Wow, I find some in this thread quite uptight.

I don't have to link anything when it is my stated opinion and I did notate it with 'iirc'.

Are you saying Brandon didn't say he could see the lights from the Audi coming toward their home?

Since when has WS become a court of law and we are jurors?

Opinions are allowed here.

And please since your aren't a Moderator here don't tell me how I have to post. I certainly don't tell any posters how they must post and never will. It's rather condescending to do so, imo and seems extremely controlling.

IMO

All I'm saying is that if you've seen something concrete that others have missed and have something specific to point to, then we would have something to consider that we didn't before. Of course WS is not a court of law and we are not jurors, however, I see nothing wrong with trying on the shoes of the jurors and trying to think as they would. Most of us have been doing that all along. So sorry you were offended.

 

[BellaVita]

I still think EN would have known the green Buick and even more so once it was in front of the Meyers house. YOu are right, a Buick is non-descriptive like most cars today are but a dark green one? Most cars are silver/white/black and not many dark green. I can not see the Meyers keep track of all the car EN was in so I do not believe they would have known it was him in the car. Besides didn't EN say he didn't want to get in the car until the Buick left? How would the Meyers know EN got into a car?

There is no testimony from KM regarding whether she noticed any vehicles near the school/park. Here is the only testimony from GJ that I think really applies here:
At that point he called two
friends whom he refused to identify to me and asked them
to come and assist him.
At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the
area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of
his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting,
Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the
other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a
cream colored four door vehicle.

http://www.mynews3.com/media/lib/166/1/8/3/183997e6-0122-44f7-99b5-c23203a0e717/030515Nowsch.pdf

Oddly, it is rather ambiguous and almost suggests that two cars did in fact show up when summoned to the park by EN. Did the M's know /see that EN was in one of the cars? IDK for sure. I think I need to read the GJ docs again and review everyone's stories. The idea that there may actually have been two cars showing up at that park is something briefly discussed here but may merit more thought. WAS there a cream colored car AND a silver Audi? It would seem that way from EN's account but LVDA did not delve into that.

 

[sonjay]

There is no testimony from KM regarding whether she noticed any vehicles near the school/park. Here is the only testimony from GJ that I think really applies here:
At that point he called two
friends whom he refused to identify to me and asked them
to come and assist him.
At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the
area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of
his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting,
Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the
other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a
cream colored four door vehicle.

Oddly, it is rather ambiguous and almost suggests that two cars did in fact show up when summoned to the park by EN. Did the M's know /see that EN was in one of the cars? IDK for sure. I think I need to read the GJ docs again and review everyone's stories. The idea that there may actually have been two cars showing up at that park is something briefly discussed here but may merit more thought. WAS there a cream colored car AND a silver Audi? It would seem that way from EN's account but LVDA did not delve into that.

That could be read either way, I think. It certainly sounds possible that two cars showed up and he didn't want to get in either one of them until the green car left the area. Or it could just be imprecise summarizing from Mogg — it could be EN told Mogg he called 2 friends, and said "I didn't want to get in my friend's car until the green car left." And Mogg then summarized that as "he didn't want to get into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car left."

It's so frustrating not to have the actual words said by the person, and to have to rely on summaries like this. We don't know for sure what the person actually said, or how details might be changed slightly by the summarizing, or by the person summarizing recollecting it slightly differently.

It does sound like one or both of the friends' cars arrived at the park but EN waited until the green car left the area before getting into the car. If that's the case, then the Meyerses would have seen the one or two cars that arrived. If one car arrived, then the Meyerses would have known what car he got into; if two cars arrived, they wouldn't necessarily have known which car he got into.

We also don't know exactly what EN meant when he said the green car eventually left the area. Was that when the green car went home to get a gun? Or did the green car already have a gun, and the green car simply left the immediate area and went driving around the school or something, hoping that EN would think they were gone and exit the park so they could get to him? We don't have any clue as to how long the green car was "gone" or where it went during that time period.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Oddly, it is rather ambiguous and almost suggests that two cars did in fact show up when summoned to the park by EN. Did the M's know /see that EN was in one of the cars? IDK for sure. I think I need to read the GJ docs again and review everyone's stories. The idea that there may actually have been two cars showing up at that park is something briefly discussed here but may merit more thought. WAS there a cream colored car AND a silver Audi? It would seem that way from EN's account but LVDA did not delve into that.

And there's this part where it sounds like EN is saying the Buick drove around twice:

He said they were
sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden
the green car came around behind them again, and they
pulled away, he said the green car started chasing them

 

[sonjay]

There is no testimony from KM regarding whether she noticed any vehicles near the school/park. Here is the only testimony from GJ that I think really applies here:
At that point he called two
friends whom he refused to identify to me and asked them
to come and assist him.
At one point he said that he
was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get
into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car
had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the
area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of
his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting,
Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the
other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a
cream colored four door vehicle.

Certainly this supports the notion that EN was trying to avoid a confrontation with the green car. He was just minding his own business, and he took steps to avoid a confrontation. It's too bad the green car came back to chase him.

 

[fran]

Attention Please!

It seems we're forgetting to use links for quotes. Please make sure all of your posts include a link back to original source. If links aren't included in your post, your post may be removed.

Let's leave the snarkiness outside please. I think you know who you are.

tia
fran

 

[sonjay]

And there's this part where it sounds like EN is saying the Buick drove around twice:

He said they were sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden
the green car came around behind them again, and they
pulled away, he said the green car started chasing them

It might mean that. But again with the possibility of imprecise summarizing. It could just mean that the Buick came back again (from wherever it went to), and was behind them. I really wish we had EN's exact words. I really wish I could sit there with these people and ask for clarification when they say something like that.

I'm not arguing here for one meaning over another. I don't know for sure what it means.

ETA: EN could have said something like "The green car came back again, and it was behind us." And Mogg might have summarized that as "the green car came around behind them again." Mogg might be a perfectly good detective as far as detecting goes, but his testimony is rambling and convoluted and hard to follow. I don't trust that his summaries are necessarily accurate characterizations of what was said to him.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Q. Now about Mr. Nowsch's behavior after the
first shooting and the observations that he made of the
green car leaving the area. Was it Mr. Nowsch's
position in his interview with you that he was concerned
about his family's safety?
A. Yes.
Q. Yet he describes that he doesn't go home to
protect his sister and his mother; correct?
A. That's correct.
Q.He goes to the Mount Shasta location and
follows the green car and comes in relatively closely
behind it?
A. That's correct.

http://www.mynews3.com/media/lib/166...0515Nowsch.pdf

 

[Meddlesome Kid]

Thank you to the kind folks with warm welcomes. I appreciate it.

He looks like he can take care of himself to me

With what? Paper cuts? Silly faces? There are no weapons in that photo. Just a kid showing off. (From all accounts, a troubled one. Probably trying to look tough.) For all we know it could be a hundred wrapped around a wad of ones. It's taken from an angle that projects a certain image. (I use it for men's headshots to project a "power stance".) Plenty of people goof around like that too. Kids with tin foil on their teeth and whatnot.

I don't judge a person's entire character by a single photo on FB or hearsay from random neighbors who may have their own agenda (towards someone who is allegedly bullied, no less...go figure...).

Sorry. If one were to judge me only by my FB profile photos, I could be construed as a 16th century French Lady, a 2018 dominatrix, a 1950s house wife, a bad version of Hamlet, a vampire, a soccer coach, an equestrian, a baker, a mom, and about a hundred other things - all the way up to a little old man (me in professional stage make-up).

The Ms have plenty of photos of their own that could be poorly interpreted. I prefer actual evidence of some sort.