GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #6

[Meddlesome Kid]

Incorrect. As I have repeatedly stated, Erich started his murderous rampage when he was halfway down the street. Additionally, he told his friends they followed the Meyers down the street and loaded another clip so they could finish them off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/0...5F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf

This is murder 1 period

I will not take BMs word as the Gospel. I'll wait to see where all the casings were picked up before I'm positive about the location of the first shots. That is a much better way of knowing where the shots were fired from. If they began collecting shells several houses away, fine. If they are concentrated at the end of the cul-de-sac...well...that tells a slightly different story.

 

[Meddlesome Kid]

You can't claim self defense when you try to blow them away, then have your buddy chase them while you are reloading your gun and then actually do blow them away. If you could, then no one would ever get convicted of M1, lol.

Not gonna happen.

I still think you are jumping to conclusions without definitive proof. If EN fired into the air as a scare tactic - that is not trying to blow someone away. I haven't seen or heard proof that EN and AD were actually "chasing" the Ms. Nor do we know exactly what happened at the Ms home - who was holding what, facing what way, moving in what manner, what was said between parties, etc. And we may never know. IMO there are still variables that can make it self-defense in a lot of people's eyes. There are plenty of cases where people have been perceived as threats for holding cell phones, food, etc. or even just been acting in an aggressive manner and the people who "defended" themselves from those folks have gotten off - DV cases, abuse cases, etc.. LEOs shoot "threats" who are "running away" all the time. I've witnessed "slam dunk" cases fall apart many times due to tiny nuances that caused doubt in enough jurors. I think this will be one of those cases that WILL hinge on how well each side tells their EMOTIONAL side of the story, unless there are some cold hard PHYSICAL facts that make it crystal clear that EN and DA intended to kill TM.

 

[Meddlesome Kid]

Yet you believe Erich Nowsch.

Interesting.

I didn't say I believe ANYONE'S statements. I have stated what I think EN's attorney MIGHT attempt to argue. I think he might have some feasible defense strategies to work with.

 

[al66pine]

Been reading along, appreciating time and thought put into many posts on this thread. I see persuasive arguments from both sides. From one poster:

"Defense attorneys love analytical people vs those who are swayed by emotion and extraneous details." bbm
Others would say:
Prosecutors love analytical people vs those who are swayed by emotion and extraneous details.

May depend on comparative strengths & weaknesses of the case, as to which side favors logical analysis and logic vs emotion and extraneous details.

 

[SStarr33]

I didn't say I believe ANYONE'S statements. I have stated what I think EN's attorney MIGHT attempt to argue. I think he might have some feasible defense strategies to work with.

From above:

Depends on how long it was before they realized what vehicle it was (I understand it is a short street) and where they were...one cannot shoot very well behind yourself while seated in a car.

Also, waving a gun at all is considered threatening, and I do believe BM was the first to do that. Who is to say EN didn't think someone was aiming at him from somewhere? Did TM or BM have anything in their hands at the time he fired his weapon. These details make all the difference in what a jury may think. they certainly do for me.

 

[PaperDoll]

Incorrect. As I have repeatedly stated, Erich started his murderous rampage when he was halfway down the street. Additionally, he told his friends they followed the Meyers down the street and loaded another clip so they could finish them off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/0...5F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf

This is murder 1 period

Yes, he did load another clip when he was in the cul-de-sac. He also said "I can't let these #$*!)%$*# get away"

Mr. Nowsch said and just I guess simple mathematics, as
you described it, the shooting on the Meyers' cul-de-sac
would have required Mr. Nowsch to at least reload that
weapon with a fresh magazine at least once?
A. He told me he had reloaded.

He believes
at that point that this person is going to get, in his
terms, more straps or guns and so he said that he also
saw heads in the vehicle so he started shooting at the
car and then he saw the person running toward the house
and I believe his quote was, "I can't let this
mother****er get away from me." So he started shooting
at the person that was running also.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I read these statements about the Ruger .45 and how many shots Nowsch claimed he fired at the Meryers. From the Grand Jury transcript.

Q. And based upon the model of the Ruger .45,
can you generically answer the grand juror's question
about your knowledge of firearms and the generalized
capacity of a .45?
A. I believe the capacity of that handgun
magazine is seven. If you had one in the chamber you
would have a total of eight. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that there is seven in the magazine.
He could have not loaded it to capacity. He could squeezed eight in there. So I can only tell you what the capacity of the magazines normally are.

Q. And yet he describes to you and he was
adamant that there were no shots fired in his direction
when he unloaded 20 to 24 rounds from a .45 caliber
at the person running and the person at the car?
A. That's correct

If Nowsch did fire 20 to 24 shots during the final confrontation he would have had to reload at least once possibly twice. I would like to know the exact model of Ruger .45 to have a better idea on reloads. Some models have 7,8 or 10 shot magazines. There's even an aftermarket 15 shot extended magazine available for one model Ruger .45.

Reloading shows me that Nowsch was calm enough to accomplish that task and was trying very hard to hit his intended targets. Goes to the state of mind in my opinion.


JMO.


http://www.mynews3.com/media/lib/16...717/030515Nowsch.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-14,792

 

[sonjay]

The initial story with BM leaving the house was because KM thought she saw the silver car drive by when they arrived on Mt Shasta per the complaint and then afterwards they said they knew it was EN, but I don't remember - which doesn't mean it didn't happen - them saying they went out because they knew the driver. There also had been different version as to why they went out, like one of the versions was that it wasn't to look for the car but rather to park the car away from their home.

The original original story was, the silver car passed TM and brake-checked her. No minor accident, no verbal confrontation, no death threat, no horn honking. BM was at home sleeping, and coming out the house to return fire at the silver car after it shot TM.

Feb. 14 (2 days after the shooting), the sketch of the spiky-haired dude was released. Now it was a near-collision or minor accident. The verbal confrontation ws mentioned, but no death threat or horn honking. We're told three men were in the vehicle.

Feb. 17 (5 days after the shooting), we learned that TM brought KM home and picked up an armed BM. We're told that TM & BM went out looking for the car, followed it for a while, then went home. There was no explanation of why they went out to find and follow the silver car. After they went home, then the silver car showed up and shot TM. Also, today is the first mention of KM honking the horn. There was lot of public criticism of their decision to go out looking for the other car.

Feb. 18. We learn that they went home after they "lost track of" the other car. Then it showed up in the cul de sac and shot TM. More public criticism. Today the Meyerses announced they were going to return the donations.

Feb. 19. EN is arrested. RM admits that the family knew who he was all along. He also claims that police asked him to keep that knowledge secret, but police say they only just learned these facts that day themselves. RM tells us that TM consoled and counseled EN and gave him food and money. People notice that EN looks nothing like the sketch of the spiky-haired dude, but it's not clarified whether EN was the driver of the car.

Feb. 20. Today we learn several things: We learn there was a first shooting scene prior to the shooting in the cul de sac. We learn that the shooter was a passenger, not the driver, of the silver car. We learn that the driver made a death threat to KM & TM: "I'm gonna come back for you and your daughter." We learn that EN essentially confessed to his two friends the night of the shooting. BM claims he told his mom to stay home and call 911, but she said she was going with or without him. The friends have revealed the existence of the first shooting scene, and the Meyerses incorporate that first shooting scene into their story just as if it's been there all along. We learn for the first time that KM "took a few loops around the block" during her driving lessons, and we first hear about the weirdly indirect route that KM & TM took on their way home after the driving lessons. We first hear about the road rage pursuit and the passing in the bike lane and the skidding out to block their path. This is when RM first says that TM was "trying to draw him away from the house." There's yet more public criticism of the family.

More Feb. 20. The arrest affidavit is released. KM's account mentions the "loops" around the school and the residential-area driving. KM describes a very specific route during which the road rage happened — west to Durango, north to Westcliff, south on Cimarron. Honking happens on Durango, spin-out and threat happen on Cimarron. No mention of the silver car hitting the green car. Threat from driver: "I'm gonna come back for you and your daughter." She saw the silver car again near their house after returning to the cul de sac. BM also describes a very specific route for his trip: west to Cimarron, north to Westcliff, south on Buffalo to Ducharme, then south on Villa Monterey. He says that his mother said "it" (the road rage) happened on Cimarron near Westcliff. BM describes the encounter with the silver car as a chase, although he doesn't use that word.

Feb. 21. We hear for the first time that KM "thought she saw" the silver car driving near their house when she and her mom got back to the house and her mom told her to go get her brother. Today we also hear that KM was driving on the residential streets near the school during her driving lesson.

Feb. 23. RM says the killing was intentional and not simple road rage out of control, that the person in the silver car specifically meant to kill TM: "My wife was followed home and murdered.... this was intentional — to kill the person in the green car."

Feb. 24. RM explains why the story has changed: "The reason I didn’t know this story is, for one, it wasn’t explained to me. It was explained to me one way. And that’s how I told it. Until we started getting all the information and all the facts came out, that’s how I have knowledge of all this. My son was very hurt, thinking I was going to blame him for his mom going down, and he didn’t come forward with all the things."

March 16. GJ transcript is released. KM's testimony doesn't mention driving any "loops" around the school or driving in any residential areas. Her route is described vaguely and presented as if it was their normal way home from the school. KM mentions the honking. She says the road rage car hit her side of the Buick. There was one person in the road-rage car; he was not EN. KM did not know the driver; her mom gave no indication that she knew the driver. The threat was: "I'm going to kill you and your daughter." This is the first time we hear that KM & TM saw anyone at the park during the driving lessons. She does not mention seeing the silver car near the house after she and her mom get home.

March 17. BM says that TM didn't go looking for trouble and that her goal that day was to "keep it away from the family."

So there we have the evolution of the driving lesson and road rage story. There might be a couple of permutations that I've missed.

 

[kimi_SFC]

The original original story was, the silver car passed TM and brake-checked her. No minor accident, no verbal confrontation, no death threat, no horn honking. BM was at home sleeping, and coming out the house to return fire at the silver car after it shot TM.

Feb. 14 (2 days after the shooting), the sketch of the spiky-haired dude was released. Now it was a near-collision or minor accident. The verbal confrontation ws mentioned, but no death threat or horn honking. We're told three men were in the vehicle.

Feb. 17 (5 days after the shooting), we learned that TM brought KM home and picked up an armed BM. We're told that TM & BM went out looking for the car, followed it for a while, then went home. There was no explanation of why they went out to find and follow the silver car. After they went home, then the silver car showed up and shot TM. Also, today is the first mention of KM honking the horn. There was lot of public criticism of their decision to go out looking for the other car.

Feb. 18. We learn that they went home after they "lost track of" the other car. Then it showed up in the cul de sac and shot TM. More public criticism. Today the Meyerses announced they were going to return the donations.

Feb. 19. EN is arrested. RM admits that the family knew who he was all along. He also claims that police asked him to keep that knowledge secret, but police say they only just learned these facts that day themselves. RM tells us that TM consoled and counseled EN and gave him food and money. People notice that EN looks nothing like the sketch of the spiky-haired dude, but it's not clarified whether EN was the driver of the car.

Feb. 20. Today we learn several things: We learn there was a first shooting scene prior to the shooting in the cul de sac. We learn that the shooter was a passenger, not the driver, of the silver car. We learn that the driver made a death threat to KM & TM: "I'm gonna come back for you and your daughter." We learn that EN essentially confessed to his two friends the night of the shooting. BM claims he told his mom to stay home and call 911, but she said she was going with or without him. The friends have revealed the existence of the first shooting scene, and the Meyerses incorporate that first shooting scene into their story just as if it's been there all along. We learn for the first time that KM "took a few loops around the block" during her driving lessons, and we first hear about the weirdly indirect route that KM & TM took on their way home after the driving lessons. We first hear about the road rage pursuit and the passing in the bike lane and the skidding out to block their path. This is when RM first says that TM was "trying to draw him away from the house." There's yet more public criticism of the family.

More Feb. 20. The arrest affidavit is released. KM's account mentions the "loops" around the school and the residential-area driving. KM describes a very specific route during which the road rage happened — west to Durango, north to Westcliff, south on Cimarron. Honking happens on Durango, spin-out and threat happen on Cimarron. No mention of the silver car hitting the green car. Threat from driver: "I'm gonna come back for you and your daughter." She saw the silver car again near their house after returning to the cul de sac. BM also describes a very specific route for his trip: west to Cimarron, north to Westcliff, south on Buffalo to Ducharme, then south on Villa Monterey. He says that his mother said "it" (the road rage) happened on Cimarron near Westcliff. BM describes the encounter with the silver car as a chase, although he doesn't use that word.

Feb. 21. We hear for the first time that KM "thought she saw" the silver car driving near their house when she and her mom got back to the house and her mom told her to go get her brother. Today we also hear that KM was driving on the residential streets near the school during her driving lesson.

Feb. 23. RM says the killing was intentional and not simple road rage out of control, that the person in the silver car specifically meant to kill TM: "My wife was followed home and murdered.... this was intentional — to kill the person in the green car."

Feb. 24. RM explains why the story has changed: "The reason I didn’t know this story is, for one, it wasn’t explained to me. It was explained to me one way. And that’s how I told it. Until we started getting all the information and all the facts came out, that’s how I have knowledge of all this. My son was very hurt, thinking I was going to blame him for his mom going down, and he didn’t come forward with all the things."

March 16. GJ transcript is released. KM's testimony doesn't mention driving any "loops" around the school or driving in any residential areas. Her route is described vaguely and presented as if it was their normal way home from the school. KM mentions the honking. She says the road rage car hit her side of the Buick. There was one person in the road-rage car; he was not EN. KM did not know the driver; her mom gave no indication that she knew the driver. The threat was: "I'm going to kill you and your daughter." This is the first time we hear that KM & TM saw anyone at the park during the driving lessons. She does not mention seeing the silver car near the house after she and her mom get home.

March 17. BM says that TM didn't go looking for trouble and that her goal that day was to "keep it away from the family."

So there we have the evolution of the driving lesson and road rage story. There might be a couple of permutations that I've missed.

:gthanks: for this sonjay. The evolution of the narrative is quite interesting to behold, and I appreciate your efforts.

The fact that there have been so many permutations would make it understandable if some were missed.

:moo:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LancelotLink]

One thing I noticed, in the warrant, BM had no trouble naming streets, it seems. However, in March, in the GJ transcript, he doesn't know the names of half of them.

 

[Meddlesome Kid]

You're arguing shaky semantics there about me saying whether or not I believe anyone.

My belief that BM waved his gun first is not based on a specific statement from EN. It is based on my gut reaction from several different things - including statements from BMs FB about how he claims he would have handled a road rage situation. TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR, I do not believe anyone in this story has *told the whole truth* (better?), but I do believe that the Ms were the original aggressors and I believe the aggression was not limited to simply following a vehicle. I think BM made it clear he was armed first.

I have not decided how I feel about an outcome yet.

 

[PaperDoll]

Was there ever a written police report taken right after the incident meaning on Feb. 12th/13th where the Meyers were interviewed, or anyone for that matter? The only one I have is filed on the 19th of Feb would that date simply mean it was filed on the 19th or was it actually taken on the 19th? :crazy:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You're arguing shaky semantics there about me saying whether or not I believe anyone.

My belief that BM waved his gun first is not based on a specific statement from EN. It is based on my gut reaction from several different things - including statements from BMs FB about how he claims he would have handled a road rage situation. TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR, I do not believe anyone in this story has *told the whole truth* (better?), but I do believe that the Ms were the original aggressors and I believe the aggression was not limited to simply following a vehicle. I think BM made it clear he was armed first.

BBM

What do you that Brandon made it clear he was armed first?

 

[PaperDoll]

One thing I noticed, in the warrant, BM had no trouble naming streets, it seems. However, in March, in the GJ transcript, he doesn't know the names of half of them.

I noticed that, too. But I think the GJ had maps to show..

 

[SStarr33]

I still think you are jumping to conclusions without definitive proof. If EN fired into the air as a scare tactic - that is not trying to blow someone away. I haven't seen or heard proof that EN and AD were actually "chasing" the Ms. Nor do we know exactly what happened at the Ms home - who was holding what, facing what way, moving in what manner, what was said between parties, etc. And we may never know. IMO there are still variables that can make it self-defense in a lot of people's eyes. There are plenty of cases where people have been perceived as threats for holding cell phones, food, etc. or even just been acting in an aggressive manner and the people who "defended" themselves from those folks have gotten off - DV cases, abuse cases, etc.. LEOs shoot "threats" who are "running away" all the time. I've witnessed "slam dunk" cases fall apart many times due to tiny nuances that caused doubt in enough jurors. I think this will be one of those cases that WILL hinge on how well each side tells their EMOTIONAL side of the story, unless there are some cold hard PHYSICAL facts that make it crystal clear that EN and DA intended to kill TM.

WTH??

I just gave you a document where he confessed to his friends that they were chasing him. Erich himself said that he was holding his gun up in the air and could not believe that didn't make them go away, so then he unloaded on them for the first time. And then he freaking said he couldn't believe he didn't hit them. You don't say that when you are firing up in the air.

 

[sonjay]

Was there ever a written police report taken right after the incident meaning on Feb. 12th/13th where the Meyers were interviewed, or anyone for that matter? The only one I have is filed on the 19th of Feb would that date simply mean it was filed on the 19th or was it actually taken on the 19th? :crazy:

I'm sure there was, but nothing's been released. The 19th was when the arrest affidavit was generated; it was released publicly the next day, on the 20th.

 

[SStarr33]

One thing I noticed, in the warrant, BM had no trouble naming streets, it seems. However, in March, in the GJ transcript, he doesn't know the names of half of them.

There are no actual quotes from Brandon in the warrant.

 

[Deleted member 50844]

Whew. I'm finally caught up to date on this story here. I read all of thread 1, started into thread 2 and then just skipped to this current thread, as there are not enough hours in the day to read every comment.
I have a bazillion questions (don't we all...) but what I'm wondering right now is this: What is the latest version of "Was there supposedly a collision between the 2 cars or not?" according to the M family?

 

[SStarr33]

Whew. I'm finally caught up to date on this story here. I read all of thread 1, started into thread 2 and then just skipped to this current thread, as there are not enough hours in the day to read every comment.
I have a bazillion questions (don't we all...) but what I'm wondering right now is this: What is the latest version of "Was there supposedly a collision between the 2 cars or not?" according to the M family?

Their daughter says there was a collision, but there is no evidence of a collision.

 

[sonjay]

Whew. I'm finally caught up to date on this story here. I read all of thread 1, started into thread 2 and then just skipped to this current thread, as there are not enough hours in the day to read every comment.
I have a bazillion questions (don't we all...) but what I'm wondering right now is this: What is the latest version of "Was there supposedly a collision between the 2 cars or not?" according to the M family?

The most official thing we've got is also the most recent: The GJ transcript. In it, KM says the alleged road rager allegedly hit the alleged passenger side of the alleged Buick. Mogg says it does not appear that the Buick has been hit by another car.