GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #8

[sonjay]

This case really bothers me because it seems like LE/DA don't want to actually know what happened and seek justice based upon a full view of the events. I'd have no problem if EN was convicted on M1 due to escalation in a drug deal gone bad with the Meyers, but it seems like LE/DA are actively avoiding that line of investigation to the point where the Meyers finds evidence that LE/DA should have found ages ago. The whole drug deal gone bad was raised before the family lawyers were even hired and them handling that evidence is highly problematic as nothing would have stopped the Meyers from tampering with that evidence in the weeks/months since the shooting (not that I'm saying the Meyers did do that, just a thorough investigation by LE/DA would preclude that possibility from even being raised as it would have been in police custody rather than Meyers custody). Also with the DA saying after months that they don't know if TM was prescribed Valium while in the hospital really makes it seem like LE/DA doesn't want to know and this lack of investigative interest by LE/DA just bothers me to no end that whatever happened that night justice won't be served.

I agree. It seems like the prosecutors just don't want to know anything about anything that happened preceding the actual shooting. That bothers me. It bothers me a lot. It seems like they want to pretend that absolutely nothing happened, that suddenly EN shot at them on Villa Monterey and then went to their cul de sac and shot some more. With no provocation whatsoever. With no acts by the Meyerses leading up to that. Nothing. Just.... nothing. They don't even want to talk about it.

 

[sonjay]

I've taken pain meds and I've taken Xanax and I've also taken muscles relaxants and it does not impair my ability to think rationally. I've taken them together but I haven't ever taken them in high doses. I've had surgery, I've been in car accidents so I understand why TM would carry her pills with her. If a person has back/neck pain and it flairs up from time to time, you would most likely keep the meds in your purse, I know I have.

A year and a half ago, the FDA updated its safety labeling requirements for opiods such as oxycodone
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm367726.htm

"The updated indication states that ER/LA opioids are indicated for the management of pain severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment and for which alternative treatment options are inadequate."

Oxycodone isn't supposed to be prescribed for someone whose pain "flares up from time to time." It's not supposed to be prescribed for someone who only needs to take one oxy in 45 days. It appears that I was right when I wrote earlier that if you only need one oxy in 45 days, you don't need oxy.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Pain medicines (especially those combined with anti inflammatories) are supposed to be taken as prescribed and round the clock to that therputic levels stay in the system.

So which is it: she had theraputic levels in her system or she only took 1 in 45 days?

(Or was she abusing it and had an unofficial refill in her bottle?)

Prosecution is going only by he killed her and that is all we need to know. I think that eliminates murder one. There is a backstory here that has never gone away.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

"Combining opioids like oxycodone, morphine or heroin with diazepam is a common practice among recreational users of Valium. For some users, diazepam enhances the euphoric effects of opioid narcotics; for others, Valium helps to calm the symptoms of opioid withdrawal."
http://blackbearrehab.com/valium-addiction/mixing-drugs-alcohol/
http://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/SpecialReports/44479

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Prosecution is going only by he killed her and that is all we need to know. I think that eliminates murder one. There is a backstory here that has never gone away.

Yes, this is why I think there's very low odds of EN getting M1 under the current scenario. For a long time I thought the most likely outcome was M2 and depending on what else comes out that it could be less than that. I for instance wouldn't be surprised to find out that KM was present the whole time and was in the car and would explain her seeing TM shot and that only coming up months later as the Meyers wouldn't want to say there was one or two more people in the car than they already said and open up that can of worms.

 

[PaperDoll]

This case really bothers me because it seems like LE/DA don't want to actually know what happened and seek justice based upon a full view of the events. I'd have no problem if EN was convicted on M1 due to escalation in a drug deal gone bad with the Meyers, but it seems like LE/DA are actively avoiding that line of investigation to the point where the Meyers finds evidence that LE/DA should have found ages ago. The whole drug deal gone bad was raised before the family lawyers were even hired and them handling that evidence is highly problematic as nothing would have stopped the Meyers from tampering with that evidence in the weeks/months since the shooting (not that I'm saying the Meyers did do that, just a thorough investigation by LE/DA would preclude that possibility from even being raised as it would have been in police custody rather than Meyers custody). Also with the DA saying after months that they don't know if TM was prescribed Valium while in the hospital really makes it seem like LE/DA doesn't want to know and this lack of investigative interest by LE/DA just bothers me to no end that whatever happened that night justice won't be served.

BBM: Right now we don't know what is going on behind closed doors, we are limited on public information.. If I'm missing something here please lead me to the information, but do we really know this was a drug deal gone bad, or are people assuming it was? I understand there are holes in this event and we don't have all the facts so most of us are simply adding our own assumption to this I never thought it was a drug deal gone bad but there are people out there that think it..

 

[PaperDoll]

A year and a half ago, the FDA updated its safety labeling requirements for opiods such as oxycodone
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm367726.htm

"The updated indication states that ER/LA opioids are indicated for the management of pain severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment and for which alternative treatment options are inadequate."

Oxycodone isn't supposed to be prescribed for someone whose pain "flares up from time to time." It's not supposed to be prescribed for someone who only needs to take one oxy in 45 days. It appears that I was right when I wrote earlier that if you only need one oxy in 45 days, you don't need oxy.

You are not TM's doctor to say why she was prescribed drugs and we have no evidence at this point that she got them from EN. If her doctor prescribed her meds, that is between her and her doctor. If they found meds in her purse, so be it, it's not a crime. If her drugs were from another source I'm still not going to judge her based on the pain meds she was carrying around. She was also shot in the head and for all we know she got some of those meds in her system from the hospital, we are not clear on where she got them.

 

[PaperDoll]

I agree. It seems like the prosecutors just don't want to know anything about anything that happened preceding the actual shooting. That bothers me. It bothers me a lot. It seems like they want to pretend that absolutely nothing happened, that suddenly EN shot at them on Villa Monterey and then went to their cul de sac and shot some more. With no provocation whatsoever. With no acts by the Meyerses leading up to that. Nothing. Just.... nothing. They don't even want to talk about it.

Have there been any statements of late from the prosecution made public? I've only heard from the defense atty and that was a brief statement, but I haven't heard any thing else from LE, DA or EN's attorney. They are working on this case and not much is being made public, I wish it were :crazy:

 

[SpanishInquisition]

BBM: Right now we don't know what is going on behind closed doors, we are limited on public information..

Unless the Meyers family attorneys are blatantly lying before the public, we know that it was them rather than LE/DA who found the pill bottle full of prescription pills weeks/months later, which is a serious oversight that LE/DA did not find this even after the drug issue was raised. That is not a thorough investigation by LE/DA to have not to have found these pills in two months yet these family lawyers who don't even work criminal law and are brought in way later does not speak well of the criminal investigation conducted.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

She was also shot in the head and for all we know she got some of those meds in her system from the hospital, we are not clear on where she got them.

Don't you think a DA who wanted to know the truth would after two months know what medicine she received in the hospital?:

Prosecutor David Stanton says Meyers had a prescription for oxycodone.
He says he's trying to determine if the diazepam was administered at the hospital between when Meyers was shot late Feb. 12 and her organ donation Feb. 14.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/28946296/officials-tammy-meyers-had-drugs-in-her-system
The trial is coming up and the DA doesn't even know what medications were given at the hospital months ago is pretty pathetic. This is a case where the DA scheduled a trial and if the DA couldn't figure this stuff out and be bothered to get the evidence, he shouldn't have gone to the grand jury until he did. The DA wasn't forced to go to the grand jury when he did, so not having this evidence isn't an excuse for the DA.

 

[sonjay]

You are not TM's doctor to say why she was prescribed drugs and we have no evidence at this point that she got them from EN. If her doctor prescribed her meds, that is between her and her doctor. If they found meds in her purse, so be it, it's not a crime. If her drugs were from another source I'm still not going to judge her based on the pain meds she was carrying around. She was also shot in the head and for all we know she got some of those meds in her system from the hospital, we are not clear on where she got them.

I quoted the FDA. If you have a problem with their safety labeling requirements, that's between you and the FDA. The FDA says that oxycodone is only for the "management of pain severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment and for which alternative treatment options are inadequate."

I'm not judging her based on the pain meds she was carrying around. I am, however, pointing out that the lawyer's statement that she had only taken one oxy in 45 days indicates that, according to FDA guidelines, she shouldn't have had an oxy prescription at all.

I'm also pointing out that oxy, especially in combination with diazepam, could have affected her decision-making capacity in serious ways.

I'm also pointing out that her use of prescription drugs is not inconsistent with the claims by some of the neighbors that TM bought prescription drugs from EN. They specifically mentioned Xanax, which isn't diazepam, but is, like diazepam, a benzodiazepine. It's the same family of drugs. Diazepam and oxycodone are two of the most popular prescription drugs that are used illegally. TM had both drugs in her system.

I'm also commenting that IMO it's highly unlikely that the hospital would have given TM diazepam. Drugs.com tells me this: Diazepam Injection should not be administered to patients in shock, coma, or in acute alcoholic intoxication with depression of vital signs.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/diazepam-injection.html

I just want the backstory of the events of that night. The story the Meyerses have told is not the truth.

 

[PaperDoll]

I quoted the FDA. If you have a problem with their safety labeling requirements, that's between you and the FDA. The FDA says that oxycodone is only for the "management of pain severe enough to require daily, around-the-clock, long-term opioid treatment and for which alternative treatment options are inadequate."

I'm not judging her based on the pain meds she was carrying around. I am, however, pointing out that the lawyer's statement that she had only taken one oxy in 45 days indicates that, according to FDA guidelines, she shouldn't have had an oxy prescription at all.

I'm also pointing out that oxy, especially in combination with diazepam, could have affected her decision-making capacity in serious ways.

I'm also pointing out that her use of prescription drugs is not inconsistent with the claims by some of the neighbors that TM bought prescription drugs from EN. They specifically mentioned Xanax, which isn't diazepam, but is, like diazepam, a benzodiazepine. It's the same family of drugs. Diazepam and oxycodone are two of the most popular prescription drugs that are used illegally. TM had both drugs in her system.

I'm also commenting that IMO it's highly unlikely that the hospital would have given TM diazepam. Drugs.com tells me this: Diazepam Injection should not be administered to patients in shock, coma, or in acute alcoholic intoxication with depression of vital signs.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/diazepam-injection.html

I just want the backstory of the events of that night. The story the Meyerses have told is not the truth.

The FDA can say all they want about these drugs, however IF her doctor prescribed these drugs, then she has a right to take them. We don't know anything about TM and why she needed these drugs. It's also her decision to take them how she wishes. I never took my pain meds as directed, I took them on a as needed basis.

I agree, I don't think the hospital gave her Xanax type drugs, but I'm sure the lawyers are wanting to be sure what was given to her at that time.

As RANCH mentioned up-thread, doesn't matter what kind of drugs TM was on, she was the victim here, not EN, drugs or no drugs..

 

[Hiandmighty]

DH is home and while it has been a very long time since he worked trauma, he sees no reason why TM would have been given oxy or valium while in the hospital for getting shot in the head and presenting as brain dead.

(Talk that for what it is worth which is nothing and is completely speculative)....


It was probably tissue samples taken at autopsy which means it is possible she had more than theraputic levels and those levels had fallen in the 4 days she was in the hospital before she died.

(Unless they did a chem screen upon admission as procedure. Or it is possible they did a chem screen upon admission and a tissue sample at autopsy and we don't if there were any differences in values in either)...

 

[Hiandmighty]

Im having wine with my dr girl friend tomorrow night and she often deals with end of life issues so ill ask her too. K_Z would probably have an opinion too.

 

[al66pine]

Unless the Meyers family attorneys are blatantly lying before the public, we know that it was them rather than LE/DA who found the pill bottle full of prescription pills weeks/months later, which is a serious oversight that LE/DA did not find this even after the drug issue was raised. That is not a thorough investigation by LE/DA to have not to have found these pills in two months yet these family lawyers who don't even work criminal law and are brought in way later does not speak well of the criminal investigation conducted.

If LE determined by its crime scene work the night/morning of shooting that
TM, mother & citizen of the year, was innocently giving a driving lesson to teen dau,
and a big bad someone followed them & shot without provocation, killing TM,
IOW, if LE took, M-kids' stmts at face value, why, why, why
would LE locate, collect, bag, and analyze TM's belongings such as Rx meds?
Would that be std LE protocol? IDK.

Refresh my memory re that night/morning:
Did BrM tell LE about BrM's firearm? Did LE find out about it that early? Or later? When?
Did LE ask them about firearm or any weapons TM may have had?
Did LE conduct any searches in M fam home that night? W S/Warrant or without?

Not saying TM-as-model-citizen was the correct conclusion for LE to draw that night or morning.
Just saying I think that's what may have happened and why LE work was limited,
or as SpanInq says: "not a thorough investigation."

That night, if LE had hint, suspicion, or nuance about TM using or being addicted to drugs,
RX or illicit (not saying she was), then seems LE failure to bag TM's meds, etc. was serious oversight.

More questions than answers. thx in adv.

 

[PaperDoll]

If LE determined by its crime scene work the night/morning of shooting that
TM, mother & citizen of the year, was innocently giving a driving lesson to teen dau,
and a big bad someone followed them & shot without provocation, killing TM,
IOW, if LE took, M-kids' stmts at face value, why, why, why
would LE locate, collect, bag, and analyze TM's belongings such as Rx meds?
Would that be std LE protocol? IDK.

Refresh my memory re that night/morning:
Did BrM tell LE about BrM's firearm? Did LE find out about it that early? Or later? When?
Did LE ask them about firearm or any weapons TM may have had?
Did LE conduct any searches in M fam home that night? W S/Warrant or without?

Not saying TM-as-model-citizen was the correct conclusion for LE to draw that night or morning.
Just saying I think that's what may have happened and why LE work was limited,
or as SpanInq says: "not a thorough investigation."

That night, if LE had hint, suspicion, or nuance about TM using or being addicted to drugs,
RX or illicit (not saying she was), then seems LE failure to bag TM's meds, etc. was serious oversight.

More questions than answers. thx in adv.

IIRC TM's purse was on the street after she was killed, and I think LE saw the contents. So, if she was carrying her meds with her, then I would think LE would notice them in her purse that night..

 

[SpanishInquisition]

If LE determined by its crime scene work the night/morning of shooting that
TM, mother & citizen of the year, was innocently giving a driving lesson to teen dau,
and a big bad someone followed them & shot without provocation, killing TM,
IOW, if LE took, M-kids' stmts at face value, why, why, why
would LE locate, collect, bag, and analyze TM's belongings such as Rx meds?
Would that be std LE protocol? IDK.

You don't take anyone's statements at face value. You would collect all evidence - particularly once you're doing a murder investigation - instead of reaching your conclusion first and then looking for the evidence later, like regardless of whether or not you think TM is citizen of the year after over two months you should know by now what medications she's received all those months ago in the hospital. This evidence about the pills being found has come out months later long after the story came under question, which if the police were still going off their determinations that night, they'd still be looking for the spiky-haired guy as the killer. The Meyers lawyers weren't hired until substantially after February 12th and the police should have found this on their own before the Meyers lawyers were ever retained. Even if you believe everything from the Meyers would you look for evidence so that the defense couldn't raise the issue that for instance the evidence found the Meyers lawyers was tainted.

Refresh my memory re that night/morning:
Did BrM tell LE about BrM's firearm? Did LE find out about it that early? Or later? When?
Did LE ask them about firearm or any weapons TM may have had?
Did LE conduct any searches in M fam home that night? W S/Warrant or without?

We don't know AFAIK. Initially publicly it was that BM came running outside with a shotgun, but we don't know at what point LE was told by the Meyers that wasn't the case.

 

[Deleted member 50844]

Unless the Meyers family attorneys are blatantly lying before the public, we know that it was them rather than LE/DA who found the pill bottle full of prescription pills weeks/months later, which is a serious oversight that LE/DA did not find this even after the drug issue was raised. That is not a thorough investigation by LE/DA to have not to have found these pills in two months yet these family lawyers who don't even work criminal law and are brought in way later does not speak well of the criminal investigation conducted.

And this is really sad. You know that phrase 'reasonable doubt?' Well, all it takes is ONE juror to have reasonable doubt and EN walks free. And you can bet the defense will hammer this point of sloppy investigation into the ground. Add to that, the fact that they M family told so many freaking stories and you can't blame anyone for wondering if there is much more to the story than has been told, which of course there is. For example...why didn't the M family CALL THE POLICE when someone had threatened their lives? Why did they leave out HUGE parts of the story? Why did they give this sketch artist a description that is so far off base, but very detailed down to the color of the suspect's eyes? Why did they insert a black person (or people? I can't remember without looking it up) into this story? Why, why why? Too many things that don't add up. I can totally see one or more jurors deciding that there is enough questions/lies/missing information to equal reasonable doubt. And that stinks, because if they had just told the truth from the get go, all of these points would be moot. And the person that shot her in the head would have been punished appropriately. Unless, and this is a VERY good possibility, there is so much more to the story that hasn't been nor ever will be told.
I just shake my head when the family gets so upset that people speculate what the actual truth is. Of course people are going to throw theories out there. The family pretty much guaranteed that when they set this ordeal in motion.
This is so sad. So very very sad.

 

[PaperDoll]

I think the evidence we have this far shows EN is guilty of murder. The DA will present that fact that the Meyers didn't shoot at the 1st shoot out, EN did.. The Meyers retreated home, evidence shows that as well. Evidence shows that EN went into the cul-de-sac and shot off, per EN statement, 22 rounds, however, evidence shows less than that and it shows BM shot off 3. Per EN's statement he didn't know anyone was even shooting at him. Evidence shows, per EN statement to his friends, that he shot at a person RUNNING towards the house, then shot at the car. If I were on that jury that is what will determine the guilt of EN, not the drugs, not the lies told or not told by the Meyers. Not why TM decided to go out looking for the road rage guy, not the driving lesson, but the fact that the Meyers did retreat without gun fire the first time around. EN's own testimony, IMO, is damning. If he felt threatened he, too, like the Meyers should have called the police. The Meyers didn't kill anyone even though BM took his gun with him. EN did kill someone and he could have killed more if someone was on the street during the shooting, but thank God no one else was hurt.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I think the evidence we have this far shows EN is guilty of murder. The DA will present that fact that the Meyers didn't shoot at the 1st shoot out, EN did.. The Meyers retreated home, evidence shows that as well. Evidence shows that EN went into the cul-de-sac and shot off, per EN statement, 22 rounds, however, evidence shows less than that and it shows BM shot off 3. Per EN's statement he didn't know anyone was even shooting at him. Evidence shows, per EN statement to his friends, that he shot at a person RUNNING towards the house, then shot at the car. If I were on that jury that is what will determine the guilt of EN, not the drugs, not the lies told or not told by the Meyers. Not why TM decided to go out looking for the road rage guy, not the driving lesson, but the fact that the Meyers did retreat without gun fire the first time around. EN's own testimony, IMO, is damning. If he felt threatened he, too, like the Meyers should have called the police. The Meyers didn't kill anyone even though BM took his gun with him. EN did kill someone and he could have killed more if someone was on the street during the shooting, but thank God no one else was hurt.

I think he'll probably get M2 and the jury has to look at all the events surrounding it in order to determine the level of guilt involved, which this being part of some drug deal that had spanned hours/days would make EN more likely to get found guilty on a stronger charge than some innocent bystander who was falsely identified and responded seconds later to what happened totally out of the blue. Some innocent person over-reacting seconds later to something that wrongly happened to them completely out of the blue does not tend to go to M1 unlike a dispute between drug dealers or a drug dealer and their customer that had been festering over a period of hours/days.