GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #8

[sonjay]

Comparing the diagram (image 7) to the picture that shows the truck best (image 6), in the picture it appears to me that the truck is actually up on the sidewalk. But in the diagram, it's clearly shown on the street. What does it look like to y'all?

If the truck was on the street, as shown in the diagram, I don't think BM would even have had a line-of-sight view to the silver car, based on where the car had to be for the shell casings to land where they did. If EN was in the front passenger seat, and the car turned sideways in the street to give EN a line-of-sight view to the Buick, BM would not have been able to see it from the left rear of the truck. He would only have had a view down alongside the side of the truck to the car parked on the other side of the street. The silver car had to be somewhere east of where the shell casings landed.

 

[PaperDoll]

It is a weird pattern on where EN was shooting. It does look like he fired the first shot towards the entrance of the cul-de-sac. IIRC EN had to lean out the window to make the shots.

 

[sonjay]

It is a weird pattern on where EN was shooting. It does look like he fired the first shot towards the entrance of the cul-de-sac. IIRC EN had to lean out the window to make the shots.

Mogg testified that EN told him "their vehicle kind of turns sideways is how he draws it."

The only reference to leaning out the window was in the arrest affidavit -- it's written that BM said the front passenger "leaned partially out of the passenger window."

A partial lean likely wouldn't have allowed EN to hit TM or to hit the wall where the #11 evidence marker shows unless the car was turned sideways anyway.

And of course, BM was allegedly running toward the house when the silver car turned onto Mt. Shasta. I'm not sure he would have seen anyone "leaning partially" out of the passenger window of a car driving west on Mt. Shasta:

Q. What did you do after you saw the headlights turn on Mount Shasta?
A. Ran towards the house.
Q. That would have been as we look at Grand Jury Exhibit 9, you would have been running off the photograph to the right to your front door?
A. Yes.
Q. As you were running what did you see or hear occur?
A. Gunshots.

If BM is telling the truth about running toward the house when he saw headlights turn onto Mt. Shasta, he wouldn't have seen anyone leaning out of either door. Because he was running toward the house.

 

[sonjay]

I'm surprised how close the Audi was to the Buick when the shots were being fired. I'm surprise EN didn't hit anyone else. I'm wondering when TM was actually shot, if she was the last one to be shot or in the middle of the shooting?????? Maybe she didn't hear any gun fire when she was getting out of the car and thought it was ok to get out. BM said he pushed his mom back in the car and closed the door.

How close was the Audi to the Buick when the shots were being fired? I can't tell from the diagram.

 

[PaperDoll]

How close was the Audi to the Buick when the shots were being fired? I can't tell from the diagram.

I'm not sure how close but from the casings it look like they were fairly close. The cul-de-sac is small. Plus I didn't realize the Buick was out in the street the way it was, I pictured it being in the driveway. It's like they parked the Buick on the street right in front of the driveway and not quite to the curb and because of that the Audi seemed like they were pretty close behind. I am surprised at where the casing are, they seem to be scattered in odd places.

 

[sonjay]

I'm not sure how close but from the casings it look like they were fairly close. The cul-de-sac is small. Plus I didn't realize the Buick was out in the street the way it was, I pictured it being in the driveway. It's like they parked the Buick on the street right in front of the driveway and not quite to the curb and because of that the Audi seemed like they were pretty close behind. I am surprised at where the casing are, they seem to be scattered in odd places.

In his GJ testimony, BM testified, "It was just straight ahead. Just straight. She didn't turn, she didn't pull into the driveway or anything like that, it was just completely straight."

I figured that even BM couldn't lie about that, because the car was there when the cops got there. So I knew the Buick wasn't pulled into the driveway.

I did think that BM was referring to a truck in the driveway of their house as the truck he was allegedly near the left rear of. I hadn't known there was a truck parked on the street.

I had pictured the silver car actually pulling into the round part of the cul de sac — I had thought the silver car was very close to the Buick.

But now, in looking at the spots where the .45 shell casings were found, I think the silver car was farther away than I thought. For the shell casings to have landed where they did, I think the silver car had to have pulled up sideways in the street part of Mt. Shasta, rather than in the round cul de sac part at the end. Probably in front of the house at 7913, or in that vicinity.

With the wide-angle lens used by the Google Street View cameras, it's near-about impossible to tell how much convex curvature there is in the street. Casings can bounce and roll when they hit a hard surface like a street.

But I have trouble picturing how the number 3 & 4 casings in particular could have landed where they did unless the the car was east of that spot and turned pretty far sideways in the road (turned so the car was pointing almost south). If the car was directly over that spot, or west of it, then casings would probably have landed farther into the round part of the cul de sac and closer to the north side of the street.

I'm having trouble making sense of where the .45 shell casings landed and where the silver car could have been that they landed where they did.

 

[PaperDoll]

I, too, thought BM meant the truck in the driveway. I also thought BM said the Audi "backed out" of the cul-de-sac????? Am I wrong in this? If that is the case then the Audi didn't do the full turn at the end of the cul-de-sac. I do believe the Audi stopped mid way and starting shooting but I believe they made a slight angle in order to shoot.

Also I'm wondering why BM made his way to the truck on the street???? If he went running to the house I would think the truck in the drive way would be a better hiding spot. I know he said he ran towards the house and EN even said he saw someone on the passenger side of the car run towards the house. I also believe that TM was in the car, I never believed she wasn't.

 

[PaperDoll]

Gosh, where is everyone? What happened to our regular posters? We have a few crime scene photos to discuss.. lol :crazy:

 

[suspicious1]

It is a weird pattern on where EN was shooting. It does look like he fired the first shot towards the entrance of the cul-de-sac. IIRC EN had to lean out the window to make the shots.

It seems to me that if EN was the passenger those casings at the top would have been fired while leaving .
Jmo

 

[Miss Muffet]

It just looked at those photos and it doesn't make any sense. Not how I envisioned it. I thought the car was in the driveway. It looks like they didn't even park, that they got out right in the middle of the street. That does indicate to me that they were in a hurry, and weren't wasting time at the house before the Audi arrived.

BM got behind the truck, and the truck is usually parked at the curb next to the grassy area in front of their house. But the truck is in the driveway. How could he have been running towards the house and taking cover behind the truck if the truck wasn't on the way to the front door from the car?

Is the last photo the first shooting scene?

 

[Miss Muffet]

It seems to me that if EN was the passenger those casings at the top would have been fired while leaving .
Jmo

But he says they backed out of Mt. Shasta after the shooting.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Gosh, where is everyone? What happened to our regular posters? We have a few crime scene photos to discuss.. lol :crazy:

Sorry, I was off solving another murder.

I came back to find something NEW is happening finally in the Meyer's case!

Next time there's a big break in the case, someone fetch me via a PM.

 

[charminglane]

I am leaving the new info to you pros.
My patience exited the building awhile ago.
Sleuth on and know I am here in spirit!

 

[PaperDoll]

It just looked at those photos and it doesn't make any sense. Not how I envisioned it. I thought the car was in the driveway. It looks like they didn't even park, that they got out right in the middle of the street. That does indicate to me that they were in a hurry, and weren't wasting time at the house before the Audi arrived.

BM got behind the truck, and the truck is usually parked at the curb next to the grassy area in front of their house. But the truck is in the driveway. How could he have been running towards the house and taking cover behind the truck if the truck wasn't on the way to the front door from the car?

Is the last photo the first shooting scene?

I, too thought the car was in the driveway, straight in. I've always believed the Meyers drove straight home and didn't have time to get out of the car and into the house. I believe the Audi saw the Buick pull onto Mt. Shasta, took the short cut and drove into the cul-de-sac and started shooting. The Meyers never had time to get into the house and then the shots were fired. I also believe the Audi fired first.

 

[Miss Muffet]

You know what else doesn't make sense. BM stated that the buick was located in the driveway next to the sidewalk to their entrance when TM had returned to get him and his gun. The white pickup truck's location in the driveway doesn't make that possible. I don't believe for a minute that it's possible the white truck returned to the house during the 10 or so minutes TM and BM were gone for their high speed chase and first shooting scene. That truck had to have been there before TM and BM left the house, and the buick couldn't have been parked where BM stated it was when he first left with TM.

This is the first time I've seen evidence that validates there weren't two trips and TM didn't return home to get BM. BM had to be in that car all along for the truck to have returned home while they were gone.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Also based on that diagram, and the the evidence markers in image 5, BM is apparently claiming that he was hiding behind the left rear area of the truck parked in the street, not the one parked in the driveway.

In BM's GJ testimony, he said he started running toward the house, and that as soon as "they" started shooting, he ran towards "this truck right here." He had to mean the one in the street. Stanton referred to it as a "pick up truck," but in his testimony BM said he was about where the yellow evidence markers are — and that's the left rear area of the truck in the street. Also, he said he turned to his left and saw his mom lying there -- where the truck is in the driveway, she would have been directly in front of him, not to his left. She could have been to his left only if he meant he was firing from the left rear of the truck in the street.

Unless he's got a really weird gun, or one modified to eject shells out the left side, there's no way he fired his 3 shots at EN from the left rear area of that truck. I can believe one shell ejecting funny or bouncing off the truck and landing in that area, but not all 3. IMO, JMO, MOO and all that jazz. I can make some educated guesses about where BM would have been standing when he fired his 3 shots.

So after running toward the house, and getting to within 20 feet of the front door, BM claims that he then turned and ran all the way out to the left rear of the truck in the street.

Just going from the diagram. BM was standing in front of the truck in the street, and EN's car never made it into the cul-de-sac. It looks like BM started shooting as he was running from the Buick towards the truck in the street. He very well might have started shooting as soon as he saw the Audi before EN fired his weapon. The Audi shells don't make any sense since most of them are on the driver's side. EN specifically stated that they backed out of Mt. Shasta so those shots weren't after they were leaving. I believe him. There would be shells inside the cul-de-sac if the Audi had gone that far down the street. I think the driver of the Audi was shooting too, or there were more than two people in the Audi.

 

[sonjay]

You know what else doesn't make sense. BM stated that the buick was located in the driveway next to the sidewalk to their entrance when TM had returned to get him and his gun. The white pickup truck's location in the driveway doesn't make that possible. I don't believe for a minute that it's possible the white truck returned to the house during the 10 or so minutes TM and BM were gone for their high speed chase and first shooting scene. That truck had to have been there before TM and BM left the house, and the buick couldn't have been parked where BM stated it was when he first left with TM.

This is the first time I've seen evidence that validates there weren't two trips and TM didn't return home to get BM. BM had to be in that car all along for the truck to have returned home while they were gone.

Oh, good catch! I missed that part where he said that about the car being in the driveway! This is what he said in his GJ testimony: "Went outside to the front to, towards the car, told my sister to get inside, walked out towards the car which is right exactly in front of the steps where the driveway is and was talking to my mother telling her "let's go inside, let's call the police."

He was very specific about exactly where the car was.

I agree that it supports the idea that there weren't two trips, but for a different reason than you. I don't think the white pickup came home while they were out. That would be quite a coincidence, especially since they weren't gone for very long, and surely we would have heard something about whoever it was that came home while they were gone.

I think that discrepancy is that the pickup was there all along. Because BM was making up the story about KM coming to get him while he was playing xbox, and him telling TM to call 911. IMO, while telling that story, he wasn't looking at his "memory pictures" of what happened, he was making it up, so he had no memory pictures. He was just filling in details to make it sound believable. That's a problem with lying; it's hard to get all the details right.

I have to acknowledge it's possible that the white pickup came home while they were gone. If the pickup came home while they were gone, that's definitely something that will come out in court. That person would be able to say what time he or she came home (thus giving us a time that BM & KM had to have left by), and would be able to say if KM was there at the house, and if she was, did she tell that person anything about a road rage and a threat and her mother & brother going out to hunt down the road rager.

But I don't think that's what happened. I think the truck was simply there all along, and that BM forgot about the truck when he was making up the story about the xbox and the 911 discussion.

 

[sonjay]

Just going from the diagram. BM was standing in front of the truck in the street, and EN's car never made it into the cul-de-sac. It looks like BM started shooting as he was running from the Buick towards the truck in the street. He very well might have started shooting as soon as he saw the Audi before EN fired his weapon. The Audi shells don't make any sense since most of them are on the driver's side. EN specifically stated that they backed out of Mt. Shasta so those shots weren't after they were leaving. I believe him. There would be shells inside the cul-de-sac if the Audi had gone that far down the street. I think the driver of the Audi was shooting too, or there were more than two people in the Audi.

That's what it looks like to me.

The Audi shells I still can't figure out. The shell casing pattern does look like shots were fired by the driver. But so far, there's been no suggestion by anyone that the driver fired too. EN didn't say the driver fired. BM didn't say the driver fired. Police haven't said they think the driver fired. There's been not a single hint of a suggestion that DA also had a gun with him or that he fired it that night. But it's really hard to picture where the Audi was and how it was situated on the street for the shell casing to have landed where they did if they were ejected from a gun fired from the passenger side.

 

[sonjay]

I, too thought the car was in the driveway, straight in. I've always believed the Meyers drove straight home and didn't have time to get out of the car and into the house. I believe the Audi saw the Buick pull onto Mt. Shasta, took the short cut and drove into the cul-de-sac and started shooting. The Meyers never had time to get into the house and then the shots were fired. I also believe the Audi fired first.

Well, if you believe BM's story, he had time to get out of the passenger side of the car, run around to the driver's side, try to help his mom get out of the car, see headlights turning onto Mt. Shasta, shove his mom back into the car, shut the car door, run to a spot about 20' from the front door of the house, then run back out to the left rear area of the truck that's parked in the street. And then return fire.

 

[Miss Muffet]