NY NY - Alice Crimmins, accused of killing her 2 babies, Bronx, July 1965

[Richard]

This is a tragic story no matter how one looks at it. Although it might be that Alice Crimmins killed her own children, it could also be that a pervert who knew of the family troubles might have taken advantage of an opportunity to abduct the children. There are a number of possible theories.

 

[rob525]

1. Very suspicious this happened on her birthday. Someone was extremely vindictive towards the mother.
2. I'm guessing the lock was on the door so that the kids wouldn't walk in on the mom having sex.
3. Why were the kids not dumped together? That seems really odd and risky. Were the kids not killed at the same time?

I wonder if the girl was killed ( I hate to say accidentally) in the home and the mother was unsure what the boy had witnessed nor what to do with him. Once they dumped the little girl, they realized that the boy had seen too much. Possibly they thought it too risky to go back to where they had left the little girl.
I wonder if she lied about the what she had fed the kids because she did not feed them anything. Maybe they went out through the window and found the pasta in the refrigerator. Although that still makes one wonder why she did not say that she fed them the pasta. Guilt or fear maybe?

 

[Betty P]

This is such a baffling case, mostly because the two children were found in separate locations some distance apart. In addition, the case wasn't investigated and documented as well as it could have been. The way they listened in on her daily life, followed her and helped sabotage her relationships and destroyed some of her belongings was very unprofessional.

I get the feeling her daughter's death had a sexual motive, given the use of her pajama bottoms to strangle her. Back then, the ME only seemed to look at whether there was visible trauma, not presence of semen. It could have been there, on her clothing, near her body, etc. But why take the brother? Which child was killed first? All unknown.

Very frustrating case that will probably never be solved.

 

[Denise Noe]

I wonder if the girl was killed ( I hate to say accidentally) in the home and the mother was unsure what the boy had witnessed nor what to do with him. Once they dumped the little girl, they realized that the boy had seen too much. Possibly they thought it too risky to go back to where they had left the little girl.
I wonder if she lied about the what she had fed the kids because she did not feed them anything. Maybe they went out through the window and found the pasta in the refrigerator. Although that still makes one wonder why she did not say that she fed them the pasta. Guilt or fear maybe?

The theory presented by the prosecutor was that she strangled Missy in momentary anger. Then she called a boyfriend, told him of the situation, and he sent over a hitman to "help" by silencing little Eddie.
She always claimed she fed the kids veal. The medical examiner found pasta and no meat in the girl's stomach. A member of the first jury said they "seized on that point" in convicting her. But it could as easily be exculpatory. Quite simply, it could mean that Missy ate a second meal before she was murdered. I go into the implications of this in more depth in the article on the case that appears in my ebook, "Suffer Little Children," that was published by the Australian-based company, BuzzwordBooks.com

 

[Denise Noe]

I wonder if the girl was killed ( I hate to say accidentally) in the home and the mother was unsure what the boy had witnessed nor what to do with him. Once they dumped the little girl, they realized that the boy had seen too much. Possibly they thought it too risky to go back to where they had left the little girl.
I wonder if she lied about the what she had fed the kids because she did not feed them anything. Maybe they went out through the window and found the pasta in the refrigerator. Although that still makes one wonder why she did not say that she fed them the pasta. Guilt or fear maybe?

The theory presented by the prosecutor was that she strangled Missy in momentary anger. Then she called a boyfriend, told him of the situation, and he sent over a hitman to "help" by silencing little Eddie.
She always claimed she fed the kid

Local Law Enforcement at the time, hated Alice Crimmins. Upon meeting her for the first time, the detective told his partner, you talk to the husband, I will take "the *****". He disliked and suspected her upon sight. Many people believe that Alice Crimmins was treated unfairly, as she was a feminist, when women had first started becoming feminist. She had left her husband, had multiple boyfriends, wore makeup even on the day her kids went missing, was not acting the "scared mom". Etc.

Actually, Alice Crimmins was NOT a feminist. Indeed, she was many things the feminists railed against. For example, feminists were often anti-make-up because they didn't want women to be "sex objects" for men whereas AC typically wore heavy make-up and tried to make herself look good to men. Ken Gross, author of "The Alice Crimmins Case," writes that she was disillusioned with 1st husband Eddie because he tended "to fall apart in a crisis" and she "wanted someone strong, someone she could lean on." Asked about feminism, she replied, "Oh, I'm for equal pay for equal work but not for all the far-out things. I don't hate men. I believe women are put on this earth to serve men. A man should be dominant. I believe in women's liberation, but not at the price of my femininity." Although she was not feminist, anxieties about the 2nd wave of feminism might have played a part in prejudicing people against her since some associated female promiscuity with feminism (a questionable association but a common one).

 

[Denise Noe]

I have always been fascinated by this case. I read everything I could on it -- including fictional treatments -- for the article I wrote on it that appears in my ebook "Suffer Little Children" that is at BuzzwordBooks.com
In all honesty, I don't think I've ever come across a more baffling case. It is certainly not impossible that Alice Crimmins was responsible but the case against her was very weak. I don't believe it would have been accepted without the prejudice against her for seeming to fit a certain "femme fatale" archetype.

 

[Richard]

Alice Crimmins

Classification: Murderer
Characteristics: Parricide
Number of victims: 2 ?
Date of murders: July 14, 1965
Date of arrest: September 11, 1967
Date of birth: 1939
Victims profile: Her children, Eddie Crimmins, Jr., 5, and Alice Marie "Missy" Crimmins, 4
Method of murder: Strangulation
Location: New York City, New York, USA
Status: On her first trial in 1968 was charged only with the death of the daughter and was convicted of manslaughter. On appeal this conviction was reversed and a new trial was ordered. On her second trial in 1971 was convicted of murder of her son and manslaughter of her daughter. The Appellate Division then reversed the conviction of murder of the son, and confirmed the manslaughter conviction in May 1975. Released on parole in November 1977

LINK:
Alicia Crimmins | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

 

[BlackCloud]

This case clearly shows how our criminal system does not work very well...
What could we say about this criminal? She killed her children and thank to stupid judges (and jurors) she got away with it...
They even released her on parole...really?!?
Disgusting.

 

[Denise Noe]

The true injustice may well be that she had to go to prison at all. It's not clear that the convictions were even warranted. IF she was guilty -- and that's a big "if" -- justice was in fact served in her case. There would be an injustice in that her accomplices never faced justice.

 

[SAMS]

This thread is incorrect in that this case took place in Queens, specifically Kew Gardens, not the Bronx. I am going to start a new thread for Missy and Eddie, I believe that it was never proven without a doubt that Alice did it and exploring the case is important. If she didnt do it, someone got away with double homicide. Would love to explore with other sleuthers. MOO

 

[SAMS]

"On the morning of 14 July 1965, Eddie Crimmins received a telephone call from his estranged wife Alice, accusing him of having taken the children. When she had opened their bedroom door, which she kept locked by a hook-and-eye on the outside, she had seen that the beds had been slept in but Eddie Jr, aged five, and his four-year-old sister Alice (nicknamed Missy) were gone. The casement window was PM cranked open about 75 degrees; Alice remembered having closed it the night before because there was a hole in the screen and she wanted to keep the bugs out. The screen was later found outside, leaning against the wall beneath the window, and nearby was a “porter’s stroller”—a converted baby-carriage with a box on it."

Did Alice Crimmins Kill Her Kids?

 

[SAMS]

Alice Crimmins Wed To Man Who Gave Testimony at Trial


Alice Crimmins, the onetime Queens cocktail waitress who was convicted of manslaughter in the 1965 strangulation of her 4‐year‐old daughter, was married July 15 to Anthony Grace, the contractor who had testified that he had been having an affair with her at the time her two young children were kidnapped and murdered.

The couple's marriage was disclosed by a spokesman for the State Department of Correctional Services, who said that the wedding took place while Mrs. Crim‐nins was on a weekend furlough from the Parkside Correctional Facility in East

Harlem. where she has been assignetto work‐release program since Jan. 1976.

Mrs. Grace, who is serving a term of five to 20 years, has appealed for parole, but the Parole Board has deferred decision until after she undergoes a psychiatric examination.

 

[SAMS]

Alice Crimmins Indicted Again in the Deaths of Her Children

The reversal was based on an unauthorized visit by three jurors to the scene of the al leged crime during the trial Pending a new trial, Mrs. Crim mins has been free on $15,000 bail.


Last week she appeared twice before the grand jury that handed up the indictment, tes tifying for three hours on Tues day and 15 minutes on Thurs day, contending, according to her lawyer, that she had noth ing to do with the deaths of her children.

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The children allegedly disap peared from their home at 150‐ 22 72d Avenue, Kew Gardens Hills, Queens, on the night of July 13, 1965. Mrs. Crimmins reported them missing early the next morning. The girl's body was found that day and the boy's five days later, at sepa rate points about a mile from their home.

The original indictment in the case accused Mrs. Crimmins of murdering Alice Marie. The new indictment, apparently in an ef fort to avoid the question of double jeopardy, lists the charge of manslaughter in the girl's death.

Mrs. Crimmins's lawyer said the charge of murder in connec tion with Edmund's death came as a surprise to him. Mr. Lyon, noting that the charge was be ing filed “five years after the fact,” contended last night that the murder charge represented “just a new interpretation of old facts.”


Continue reading the main story

 

[SAMS]

'Why Can't You Behave?': Revisiting the Case of Alice Crimmins | Hazlitt

Although, not to be discussed, not MSM, but this is a great read on this case and Alice Crimmins in general. The evidence in this case was altered, therefore technically inadmissible, which is sad, but, I wonder if it could still be tested by say, a PI, in the interest of knowing after all of these years, who did this? MOO

 

[SAMS]

One of the many things that blows my mind about this case is Eddies claims to so many people that he had exposed himself to kids at a park. But then he passed a lie detector, and Alice, refuses the test after claims of being taunted by LE during the initial testing visit. But did she do it? SOO many questions. MOO

 

[SAMS]

Eddie also filed for sole custody little less than a month before the kids were murdered. Was this a if I cant have them nobody will? Bc IF Alice did this, she could have easily given the children to Eddie so she could have her freedom. MOO

 

[SAMS]

A pair of underwear were taken into evidence by LE. Were these Missy's or Eddie Jr's? Was their DNA left on them? Eddie J body was too decomposed for a COD, but Missy was said to be strangled. Was she molested? Will we ever know? MOO

 

[wonderme12]

I just listened to a podcast on this case and found it super weird! looking forward to digging in a little more. Thanks for sharing!

 

[justagirlfromqueens]

I live right by where Alice and the children lived back then and walk by their old apartment a lot. I live in the same complex so my building and even apartment layout are similar to the building and apartment Alice lived in then. to me, this area, especially where Alice's apartment was, isn't the sort of place someone random would just decide to kidnap 2 kids from. even after all this time the apartment complex and the apartments themselves haven't changed much.

-the building alice was living in with Eddie and Missy is not on any main road but the area is made up of many 2-3 floor apartment buildings very close to one another, with limited ways in and out (Alice's building appears to only have 2 entrances like mine as these are tiny buildings with small apartments).

-Multiple apartments in different buildings behind, next to and across the street from Alice's place could see anything. even early in the morning there is a good chance someone would have been woken up and heard or seen 2 children being kidnapped as buildings are so close to one another. I imagine 2 small kids might struggle to get out the window even with help of an adult as even the lowest windows on these buildings are just over my head and I'm 5'4".

- walking out the front of the apartment as a stranger kidnapping 2 children also doesn't make sense because you run the chance of neighbors hearing you leave or running into someone in the shared hallway on your way out. with only 2 exits, both on the front of the building you again run the chance of being seen whether you walk off with the kids or take them in a car.

- Like many apartment buildings in this area often times the windows in your apartment will have a direct line of sight into your neighbors window. the building next to mine is at most only 8-10 feet away and I can see right into my neighbor's windows from mine.

- each apartment is attached to at least 2 other apartments whether next to, above or below. walls In these places are thin and you can often hear your neighbors tv, children and even snoring if your hearing is sensitive enough (like mine which is how I know this)

it just doesn't seem like a likely place that a random stranger would pick to kidnap 2 kids from because even then it was a populated area. there's other buildings even in the same complex that would provide more cover and an easier means of escape to kidnap 2 children from than Alice's would have. Her apartment was basically in the center of the complex, the last place I'd want to have to flee from. outer buildings of this complex lead right to main roads making escape faster and odds of being noticed lower.

personally, I feel that it was either Alice or Eddie individually or they did it together. from what I've read they seemed to have a good relationship until their children were born, maybe they resented their children and wanted to start over. Or maybe they each saw killing the children as a way to hurt the other.

or maybe a neighbor knowing how neglectful of a mother Alice was lured the children away with food...who knows :/ I read some times the kids would sneak out looking for food. maybe they snuck out and ran into a monster.

any time I pass by it breaks my heart to know there aren't concrete answers and that 2 children were taken too soon.

 

[Richard]

Alice Crimmins and her children Missy and Eddie

-----------------------------------------------------------

Alice Marie “Missy” Crimmins​

BIRTH 24 Oct 1960
Kew Gardens, Queens County, New York, USA
DEATH 14 Jul 1965 (aged 4)
Kew Gardens, Queens County, New York, USA
BURIAL
Saint Raymond's New Cemetery and Mausoleum
Bronx, Bronx County, New York, USA
PLOT Section: St. Mark, Range: 15, Grave: 71

LINK:

Alice Marie “Missy” Crimmins (1960-1965) - Find a...

Murder victim in a very controversial case. Four-year-old Missy and her Five-year-old brother, Eddie disappeared from their bedroom in their mother's apartment sometime during the night. The next day, Missy's body was found on a vacant lot. Five days later, Eddie's body was found on an...

www.findagrave.com

Edmond Michael “Eddie” Crimmins Jr.​

BIRTH 17 Oct 1959
Kew Gardens, Queens County, New York, USA
DEATH 14 Jul 1965 (aged 5)
Kew Gardens, Queens County, New York, USA
BURIAL
Saint Raymond's New Cemetery and Mausoleum
Bronx, Bronx County, New York, USA
PLOT Section: St. Mark, Range: 15, Grave: 71

LINK:

Edmond Michael “Eddie” Crimmins Jr. (1959-1965) -...

Murder Victim. Five-year-old Eddie and his four-year-old sister, Missy, disappeared from their bedroom in their mother's apartment sometime during the night of July 4th, 1965. The next day, Missy's body was found on a vacant lot. Five days later, Eddie's body was found on an embankment...

www.findagrave.com