NY NY - Brooklyn, E 23rd St & Ave P, WhtFem 40-50, UP5639, Prominent Facial Hair, poss intersex, Nov'05

[Laughing]

All right, about 1 in one thousand. Actually more than I expected:

Study: About 1 in 1,000 Babies Born 'Intersex'

 

[coffeeandacig]

I reversed the image and made it larger. JMHO, I think it's hair. And I really wouldn't rule out this person being biologically born a male, or should I say having male chromosomes.

 

[Laughing]

Apparently the intersex medical condition has about the same incidence in the population as red hair -- this is one rare individual!

 

[coffeeandacig]

Warning: Post Mortem Photo

Since this person appears to only have a couple of days hair growth. I decided to clean up the hair, and get a better view of her/him/they face.
Now this individual looks kind of Hispanic to me. JMHO

 

[madamx]

Warning: Post Mortem Photo

Since this person appears to only have a couple of days hair growth. I decided to clean up the hair, and get a better view of her/him/they face.
Now this individual looks kind of Hispanic to me. JMHO


View attachment 287408

Oh thanks coffee for this image. this is so interesting she does look hispanic now! And now she really reminds me of the red headed guy found in the river in June 2005. Now especially since Laughing says how rare they are really makes me wonder if they are related. I don’t know what you all think.. but iam posting him again ***WARNING POSTMORTEM***
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

below I attached a map where he was found and a map where she was found.

 

[madamx]

I had found this girl but now since seeing the new cleaned up shot by coffeeandacig iam not sure. I’ll post anyway because of all the freckles and red hair this girl had
The Doe Network: Case File 634DFTX

 

[Bit of hope]

Warning: Post Mortem Photo

Since this person appears to only have a couple of days hair growth. I decided to clean up the hair, and get a better view of her/him/they face.
Now this individual looks kind of Hispanic to me. JMHO


View attachment 287408

Exactly what was needed: cleaning the face up, just what I was planning to do. Thanks a lot @coffeeandacig Could the so called freckles be insect activity...there is no clear PMI, they seem so large to me....also dark hair, dyed blondish could "dry up" reddish....

 

[coffeeandacig]

Oh thanks coffee for this image. this is so interesting she does look hispanic now! And now she really reminds me of the red headed guy found in the river in June 2005. Now especially since Laughing says how rare they are really makes me wonder if they are related. I don’t know what you all think.. but iam posting him again ***WARNING POSTMORTEM***
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

below I attached a map where he was found and a map where she was found.

Really very, very interesting! I don't know if they're related, but they certainly look similar.

 

[madamx]

Really very, very interesting! I don't know if they're related, but they certainly look similar.

Yeah prob not related but it is interesting.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

The pigmentation changes on this Doe’s face are possibly indicative of a greater underlying medical condition. There are several rare genetic disorders that can cause these kind of skin lesions (lentigines) as well as genital abnormalities and hirsutism in females.
PPNAD, LEOPARD Syndrome and Carney Complex are related endocrine disorders that can manifest across a spectrum of severity and can be difficult to diagnose. Unfortunately all can result in shortened lifespans (5th decade), with death primarily resulting from complications from cardiac or brain tumors.
We don’t have an autopsy report or even a cause of death for this Doe. All that is reported is that this person was likely between 40-50 years old and was found kneeling at a park bench.
I wonder if he or she was taken suddenly by a fatal cardiac event precipitated by an underlying medical condition such as one of these endocrine disorders? It’s sad to think that even if there was nothing medically that could be done this poor soul died nameless and alone.
Rest In Peace.

 

[azure]

If one was born with no external penis or testes in 1950, and sexual organs were indeterminate or largely externally absent, would they be AFAB?

 

[Nsampson]

If one was born with no external penis or testes in 1950, and sexual organs were indeterminate or largely externally absent, would they be AFAB?

I'm not an expert on intersex issues by any mean, but I have a family friend who was born with a similar situation. In most cases, it is easier to surgically "correct" being intersex by assigning the child as female and going through infant surgeries and putting them on hormones. So short answer, yes they probably would have just assigned the person as female at birth at that point in time.

 

[Bit of hope]

I'm just not sure what the specks are....there is an unidentified person in the Netherlands...who seems to have the same facial specks....Warning very graphic PM picture.
Amsterdam - Sloterdijk

 

[madamx]

I'm just not sure what the specks are....there is an unidentified person in the Netherlands...who seems to have the same facial specks....Warning very graphic PM picture.
Amsterdam - Sloterdijk

oh wow they look identical. Yeah they are like large freckles. And the hair coloring looks the same also.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

oh wow they look identical. Yeah they are like large freckles. And the hair coloring looks the same also.

OK, Googling around a bit it appears to my untrained eye that people of many races and ethnicities can have a recessive gene (MC1R1), that may result in an appearance similar to our Brooklyn Doe, as well as the UID from the Netherlands. I will try to link the Instagram of a photographer renowned for her portraits of redheads.
Michelle Marshall’s “THE MC1R1 SERIES // @themc1rseries
Login • Instagram
Beautiful portraits of diverse and beautiful people.
If link doesn’t work, try this:
The photos that prove not all redheads are white

 

[ClaireNC]

The NAMUS page indicates this person may have been born indeterminate gender:

Individual likely assigned female at birth, but gender identity is unclear.
r

I don't think the NamUs description is saying this person was born "indeterminate gender". It seems like whoever wrote the description was being overly politically correct, and, is simply saying it is unclear what gender this person identified as when they died. They go on to give the clothing description in feminine terms - using the word blouse instead of shirt. Wish they had pictures of the clothing because it might help determine how they identified themself.

 

[Laughing]

OK, Googling around a bit it appears to my untrained eye that people of many races and ethnicities can have a recessive gene (MC1R1), that may result in an appearance similar to our Brooklyn Doe, as well as the UID from the Netherlands. I will try to link the Instagram of a photographer renowned for her portraits of redheads.
Michelle Marshall’s “THE MC1R1 SERIES // @themc1rseries
Login • Instagram
Beautiful portraits of diverse and beautiful people.
If link doesn’t work, try this:
The photos that prove not all redheads are white

Great images!

Yes, human skin tone is determined by a mix of carotene & melanin. This decedent has more carotene than most, and less melanin.

 

[killarney rose]

It’s possible this person just has P O S. Ive seen too many threads where unlikely situations have been taken and run straight into a rabbit hole. Using Occam’s Razor in this situation, I would just consider P O S. I saw a young woman yesterday that fit all the characteristics of P O S. Long dark hair on lower arms, thick brows and a lot of facial hair, almost a full beard. And honestly, intersex or transsexual never crossed my mind. I immediately thought P O S.

with her being homeless and no regular access to grooming facilities or medical care, it’s very likely her condition was untreated and she didn’t have the razor, etc needed to get rid of the facial hair.

 

[ClaireNC]

It’s possible this person just has P O S. Ive seen too many threads where unlikely situations have been taken and run straight into a rabbit hole. Using Occam’s Razor in this situation, I would just consider P O S. I saw a young woman yesterday that fit all the characteristics of P O S. Long dark hair on lower arms, thick brows and a lot of facial hair, almost a full beard. And honestly, intersex or transsexual never crossed my mind. I immediately thought P O S.

with her being homeless and no regular access to grooming facilities or medical care, it’s very likely her condition was untreated and she didn’t have the razor, etc needed to get rid of the facial hair.

My thoughts exactly. The simple answer is usually the right one.

 

[Goecke]

I have hirsutism caused by high androgen levels (not PCOS, since I don't have the ovarian cysts). I also have red hair, and I'd probably look a lot like this person in terms of facial hair if I didn't shave/pluck diligently. Given how common PCOS is, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a woman with PCOS or hirsutism. Then again, they could also be intersex or a transgender man/nonbinary.
Also, testosterone is usually administered as an injection to the thigh. Most people who take it inject themselves instead of having a doctor do it every time. I wonder if they had any needle marks in that area?