NY - Christian Nunez, 8 wks, suffocates in rat-infested Bronx apt, 29 Jan 2007

[Boyzmomee]

No offense intended, but I learned of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs while I was in college, paid for, free, by Pell Grants, an SEOG grant, and a work force program, lol. But, you're right. The mother wasn't thinking of college at that time and it sounds like she did take good care of her kids and probably couldn't just up and move. The landlord should have controlled the rats in the building.

That's for damn sure. No offense taken. I'm glad you know about Maslow. I thought his work made a lot of sense. So does Skinner's to a point. After a short while, I found him boring.

I couldn't get college for free, I was working full time ($7.50 per hour) so all they would give me was loans.

Why do you think she didn't get out of there?

I would hate to subject my kids to rats or a CPS call if they were bitten.

 

[JBean]

That's for damn sure. No offense taken. I'm glad you know about Maslow. I thought his work made a lot of sense. So does Skinner's to a point. After a short while, I found him boring.

I couldn't get college for free, I was working full time ($7.50 per hour) so all they would give me was loans.

Why do you think she didn't get out of there?

I would hate to subject my kids to rats or a CPS call if they were bitten.

I wonder if most places around the area had rats too? My gf just went through this at her place. But it took her about 4 months to find a replacement rental. her landlord did not help her at all that place was trashed.
What I don;t get is, even if you don't care about your tenant safety, what about your property? I would think the landlord would atleast want to protect his investment?
Makes too much sense. lol.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Boyzmomee---How did you pay for your college and what are you degreed in, if I may be so bold as to ask????

I worked full time, went to school full time and did field work as well. I'm tired. I took out loans and paid what I could.

Undergradute: Social Work-concentration in corrections; Graduate: Social Work- concentration in medical SW.

I couldn't focus on a major for a long time so I know a little about a lot of things..lol.. journalism, history, psychology, poly sci.

I worked for many years in children's mental health. First in a level 14 residential psychiatric treatment program... then in an acute care hospital in a child and adolescent psychiatric unit.

My first job was in a facility for developmentally disabled persons. I took care of 8 boys, programming, feeding, changing, bathing and cleaning the bathroom.

Currently I work for a regional center in CA. I provide case management services for children with developmental disabilities. My yougest son asked what I do as a social worker...I told him I was a "helper" in that I help children and familes get what they need.

Lol..sometimes it's hard to define "social work."

Thank you for asking. :blowkiss:

 

[Boyzmomee]

I wonder if most places around the area had rats too? My gf just went through this at her place. But it took her about 4 months to find a replacement rental. her landlord did not help her at all that place was trashed.
What I don;t get is, even if you don't care about your tenant safety, what about your property? I would think the landlord would atleast want to protect his investment?
Makes too much sense. lol.

I understand he was not living with rats. Maybe the judge will sentence him to live in his own rental property.

 

[JBean]

I understand he was not living with rats. Maybe the judge will sentence him to live in his own rental property.

Oh that would be rich!

 

[reb]

jbean,, the guy is what's known as a slumlord. they don't care about their properties that much, and they certainly couldn't give a 'rat's ' (bad pun alert) about the lives of their tenants. in baltimore there is an lead paint poisoning epidemic of epic proportions... many, many generations of poor ghetto children growing up brain damaged and retarded (supplying the city with a constant supply of street thugs, drug addicts /dealers, criminnals & murderers for decades to come)... and there are tons of slumlords who've allowed it to happen. rats are the furthest thing from their minds.. many of them have gone bankrupt, or have other business, legal, or family problems. and regarding the people directly responsible for bringing children into those situations.. yeah, blame the mothers. bad, bad women who shouldn't be having sex. but again, you're talking about a large portion of humanity here.
you know i really blame the city here for allowing the guy to get so many citations. that's why we have laws, to protect people from situations like this. why wasn't something done before this?? that's ridiculous.

another question here (in boyzmomee's defense,, sort of).. why does it only seem to be the working middle class who chooses not to bring children into a situation where they can't really afford a kid?? poor women get to have as many babies as they want no matter what.. and so do the rich.

 

[Boyzmomee]

just to give a basic idea of how much of the world is living in a 'cycle of poverty', here's a map (although not all countries are listed):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Percentage_population_living_on_less_than_1_dollar_day.png

so, boyzmomee.. since men and women should not procreate until they are in an "ideal" situation (i assume you are talking about ALL people-- not just this woman),, what do you propose should be done? should all women making under a certain amount a year, with no college degree, without a privileged upbringing, be sterilized? what about the men, should they be castrated? because people are going to bring children into situations of poverty, like it or not.. and they have been for.. oh, about the past 5-8 million years (or, a few thousand, if you're a christian fundie! LOL)
so tell me.. what exactly, is the proper amount for a person to be making per year, in order to be endowed with the privilege of having a child? what type of degree should one have?

i sure hope you are supporting your local family planning clinic and pro-choice groups.. because if you TRULY believe that women under a certain "means" should NOT be having babies, (which means- they should not be having sex-- and you know people are going to have sex!!) then i sure hope believe in easy access to birth control options for everyone, and surely you must be pro-choice. you need to give women that option... especially the poor ones. if not, then i wouldn't hesitate to being out the word "hypocrite" here.

What a silly response. Have someone read my posts to you. :doh:

I never suggested someone wait to procreate until they are in an "ideal" situation.

However, I would humbly suggest that waiting until you live in an environment that does not subject your child to:

1. Being bitten by rats.

2. Being suffocated while the parent is attempting to protect the baby from being bitten by rats.

3. I am not Christian. I am Jewish.

4. I am, sadly, pro choice. I would like to see women and men be responsible and protect against pregnancy prior to conception if they are not ready or do not want a child. It's as easy as going to your local public health office. However, there will always be those who don't act responsibly or those who do, and their methods fail for whatever reason.

 

[Boyzmomee]

another question here (in boyzmomee's defense,, sort of).. why does it only seem to be the working middle class who chooses not to bring children into a situation where they can't really afford a kid?? poor women get to have as many babies as they want no matter what.. and so do the rich.

Well, it's all about individual choice. People can choose to act responsibly or not.

Tax payers provide for the poor woman's children if she or their father cannot.

The rich, well, I suppose they can support as many as they want, however, there are also other types of poverty that don't include money.

 

[JBean]

jbean,, the guy is what's known as a slumlord. they don't care about their properties that much, and they certainly couldn't give a 'rat's ' (bad pun alert) about the lives of their tenants. in baltimore there is an lead paint poisoning epidemic of epic proportions... many, many generations of poor ghetto children growing up brain damaged and retarded (supplying the city with a constant supply of street thugs, drug addicts /dealers, criminnals & murderers for decades to come)... and there are tons of slumlords who've allowed it to happen. rats are the furthest thing from their minds.. many of them have gone bankrupt, or have other business, legal, or family problems. and regarding the people directly responsible for bringing children into those situations.. yeah, blame the mothers. bad, bad women who shouldn't be having sex. but again, you're talking about a large portion of humanity here.
you know i really blame the city here for allowing the guy to get so many citations. that's why we have laws, to protect people from situations like this. why wasn't something done before this?? that's ridiculous.

another question here (in boyzmomee's defense,, sort of).. why does it only seem to be the working middle class who chooses not to bring children into a situation where they can't really afford a kid?? poor women get to have as many babies as they want no matter what.. and so do the rich.

Thank you reb. I know what a slumlord is, I was really speaking rhetorically I guess.
How do we know she couldn;t afford the kid? I missed that.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Oh that would be rich!

It's happened before.

Nothing will bring that little baby back nor eliminate his mother's grief.

However, I would like to see the landlord live among those rats.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Thank you reb. I know what a slumlord is, I was really speaking rhetorically I guess.
How do we know she couldn;t afford the kid? I missed that.

Really?

 

[JBean]

Really?

yes, was it in the article? Maybe there was a subsequent link?

 

[JBean]

It's happened before.

Nothing will bring that little baby back nor eliminate his mother's grief.

However, I would like to see the landlord live among those rats.

Agreed!

 

[Boyzmomee]

He didn't get bit because she wasn't neglecting him.

I am a social worker and very familar with CPS. If that child had been bitten by a rat, a referral to CPS would have been made due to neglect. Medical staff are mandated reporters by law. They are required to make that referral... for neglect.

Whether you agree or not, that's how it is.

 

[JBean]

I am a social worker and very familar with CPS. If that child had been bitten by a rat, a referral to CPS would have been made due to neglect. Medical staff are mandated reporters by law. They are required to make that referral, for neglect.

Whether you agree or not, that's how it is.

Boyz, I understand that,but he wasn't bitten because she was protecting him. I am not debating consequences of being bitten? I am onyl sayng he wasn't bitten because she was protecting him.

 

[reb]

<<I worked full time, went to school full time and did field work as well. I'm tired. I took out loans and paid what I could.

Undergradute: Social Work-concentration in corrections; Graduate: Social Work- concentration in medical SW.

I couldn't focus on a major for a long time so I know a little about a lot of things..lol.. journalism, history, psychology, poly sci.

I worked for many years in children's mental health. First in a level 14 residential psychiatric treatment program... then in an acute care hospital in a child and adolescent psychiatric unit.

My first job was in a facility for developmentally disabled persons. I took care of 8 boys, programming, feeding, changing, bathing and cleaning the bathroom.

Currently I work for a regional center in CA. I provide case management services for children with developmental disabilities. My yougest son asked what I do as a social worker...I told him I was a "helper" in that I help children and familes get what they need.

Lol..sometimes it's hard to define "social work."

Thank you for asking. :blowkiss:>>

boyzmm, OK.. i can see you have worked your arse off, and.... you definitely did good. i can see where you are coming from now, and being in social work, i'm sure you see a lot and probably know what you speak of. i do see what you are saying and it does make sense, even though it could definitely be taken the wrong way by the poor working class here among us (myself included). you do have a point, but the only solution would be some kind of stop-gap measure inside the human body that would prevent pregnancy unless the person was in the right circumstance to raise a child. it's a tricky issue,, although what you said sounds snobby (and again- we don't know her situation!),, in theory you are right... the world would have a lot less problems. but how to do it? sadly it is impossible.. because the urge to breed is so hard-wired into the majority of humans. we have millions of africans breeding in the middle of a drought, famine & warfare, having children they can't feed who are condemned to starve, depending on other countries to feed them.... children from south america to russia living on the streets.. middle east children being born into war-torn countries... should these people have the right to do this? or does it just amount to child abuse/neglect? where does it end?

 

[Boyzmomee]

<<I worked full time, went to school full time and did field work as well. I'm tired. I took out loans and paid what I could.

Undergradute: Social Work-concentration in corrections; Graduate: Social Work- concentration in medical SW.

I couldn't focus on a major for a long time so I know a little about a lot of things..lol.. journalism, history, psychology, poly sci.

I worked for many years in children's mental health. First in a level 14 residential psychiatric treatment program... then in an acute care hospital in a child and adolescent psychiatric unit.

My first job was in a facility for developmentally disabled persons. I took care of 8 boys, programming, feeding, changing, bathing and cleaning the bathroom.

Currently I work for a regional center in CA. I provide case management services for children with developmental disabilities. My yougest son asked what I do as a social worker...I told him I was a "helper" in that I help children and familes get what they need.

Lol..sometimes it's hard to define "social work."

Thank you for asking. :blowkiss:>>

boyzmm, OK.. i can see you have worked your arse off, and.... you definitely did good. i can see where you are coming from now, and being in social work, i'm sure you see a lot and probably know what you speak of. i do see what you are saying and it does make sense, even though it could definitely be taken the wrong way by the poor working class here among us (myself included). you do have a point, but the only solution would be some kind of stop-gap measure inside the human body that would prevent pregnancy unless the person was in the right circumstance to raise a child. it's a tricky issue,, although what you said sounds snobby (and again- we don't know her situation!),, in theory you are right... the world would have a lot less problems. but how to do it? sadly it is impossible.. because the urge to breed is so hard-wired into the majority of humans. we have millions of africans breeding in the middle of a drought, famine & warfare, having children they can't feed who are condemned to starve, depending on other countries to feed them.... children from south america to russia living on the streets.. middle east children being born into war-torn countries... should these people have the right to do this? or does it just amount to child abuse/neglect? where does it end?

Well, I think we have to look at the situation in the context in which it occurs.

This woman was in the US.

The third world is another situation all together.

When I had my first son, I was in the poor working class. We planned for him, though. We had a very modest 2 bedroom apt and one car. We worked opposite shifts so we could care for him and avoid the cost of day care. We did have a few friends who would sit for us if our shifts happened to over-lap. While one drove to work, the other took the bike.

 

[Boyzmomee]

Boyz, I understand that,but he wasn't bitten because she was protecting him. I am not debating consequences of being bitten? I am onyl sayng he wasn't bitten because she was protecting him.

Yes, she was trying to protect him from the rats.

 

[reb]

jbean, i knew you knew that, that was just my sarcastic voice tongue-in-cheek voice there .. (sarcasm directed at the slumlords, because i hate them so much.)

boyz,, glad to hear you are pro-choice... that makes sense with what you said. i for one would have never brought a kid into the world when i lived in a horrible & dangerous neighborhood (with lots of rats!), and was in a very bad place in my life... and yes, with no degree. when i was younger i was trying to be responsbile and do the right thing... but of course, some would condemn me for that!
i don't believe you need a degree to have a worthy (or lucrative) life-- but it sure helps, and my primary reason for refusing to have a kid without a degree is because if i got left high & dry by the man in my life, i would not end up like my mom, stuck with an abisive guy she despised because she had no real skills & no way to really support herself. no way would i put a kid through that. if only all women would wait until they could support themselves before giving birth it would definitely be a better world.

still.. we have to remember that the woman could have been in a better place in her life when the kid was born... for all we know she could have left an abusive husband, or he could have abandoned her (as so many men do)... she could have been an immigrant who moved here in search of a better life for her kid.. we just don't know. but... if she HAD been in that apt. for a long time, knew about the rat problem, and knew the landlord wasn't doing anything about it, and she was not making any effort to get out or get help from social services.. and STILL got pregnant and chose to have the kid, with no plans to move.. then i agree, that was irreposnsible.

 

[reb]

but the US is quickly becoming third world, faster than we would like to admit it.