NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, July 2020 #2

[Dotta]

I dunno, maybe for the same reason they let him loose to do that infamous interview?

I mean during his randy Andy days!

 

[tayaway]

I mean during his randy Andy days!

If my boss abused me regularly just b/c he was a spoiled royal, I wouldn't care what trouble he got himself into.

Daily Mail March, 2021:

...Prince Andrew has faced persistent claims that he has subjected aides to shouting, profanities and impossible demands.

In one instance, a former aide was said to have been left trembling and reduced to tears after being ‘bawled at’ by Andrew in a phone call made before dawn because the Duke was unhappy at a story in The Sun newspaper.

A source claimed: ‘People were shouted at regularly by the Duke of York and there would be crying in the corridors.

‘These staff members are not pushovers either, and they put up with an awful lot so it had to be very bad to have affected them in this way. He can be a very difficult person.’

On another occasion in 2016, Andrew was reported to have rammed his Range Rover through closed park gates close to his Royal Lodge home in Windsor to avoid a one-mile detour.

Simon Wilson, Britain’s Deputy Head of Mission in Bahrain between 2001 and 2005, described Andrew’s boorish and rude behaviour, asserting that the Prince issued a raft of unreasonable demands...

 

[Dotta]

If my boss abused me regularly just b/c he was a spoiled royal, I wouldn't care what trouble he got himself into.

Daily Mail March, 2021:

...Prince Andrew has faced persistent claims that he has subjected aides to shouting, profanities and impossible demands.

In one instance, a former aide was said to have been left trembling and reduced to tears after being ‘bawled at’ by Andrew in a phone call made before dawn because the Duke was unhappy at a story in The Sun newspaper.

A source claimed: ‘People were shouted at regularly by the Duke of York and there would be crying in the corridors.

‘These staff members are not pushovers either, and they put up with an awful lot so it had to be very bad to have affected them in this way. He can be a very difficult person.’

On another occasion in 2016, Andrew was reported to have rammed his Range Rover through closed park gates close to his Royal Lodge home in Windsor to avoid a one-mile detour.

Simon Wilson, Britain’s Deputy Head of Mission in Bahrain between 2001 and 2005, described Andrew’s boorish and rude behaviour, asserting that the Prince issued a raft of unreasonable demands...

OMG! It is sooo scary!!!
But then, all authority must be supervised.
As we say in my country: Look at their hands folks! Always.
Nobody is above the Law.

 

[Estelle]

I'm not sure it matters how old Virginia looked. If she was underage, she was underage. That's a crime.
I also think the idea that Virginia looked older than she was, makes her seem less of a victim, and PA less of a perpetrator. A victim is a victim in a crime like this: there aren't degrees of victimhood for non-consensual sex IMO.

The age of consent for sex in England is 16. This applies to everyone. Anybody under the age of 13 is not legally capable of consenting to sexual activity. ... This means that even if someone seems eager to engage in sexual activity, doing so can legally be considered sexual assault or rape.

So as VR was in London, the age of consent is 16.

 

[Estelle]

Are you saying "groping" a minor isn't a sexual assault? I believe it would be; there's no consent because the teenager in question is a minor.

Groping means different things to different people. Did the witness have a grudge against PA?

 

[Estelle]

Are you saying "groping" a minor isn't a sexual assault? I believe it would be; there's no consent because the teenager in question is a minor.

She was not a minor in London.

 

[Estelle]

Fact: POI PA hung out with pedo JE and continued to hang out with him after his conviction and jail time. Fact: POI PA is a wealthy member of a powerful royal family and is used to getting his way. Fact: He treats his staff like ****. Fact: People like him and his buddy GM think of commoners as disposable garbage. Both GM and JE have spoken to this. Fact: Even at the ripe old age of 61, he's a spoiled little mummy's boy. Fact: Yes, it's victim blaming.

PA is innocent until he is proven guilty. I have been told PA could have paid VR for any services given. VR did not report this to LE at the time and has waited all these years to do so. IMO it is all about money and her solicitor approached her with the idea od suing PA and he is going to receive 50% of any moneys gained.

 

[Estelle]

If my boss abused me regularly just b/c he was a spoiled royal, I wouldn't care what trouble he got himself into.

Daily Mail March, 2021:

...Prince Andrew has faced persistent claims that he has subjected aides to shouting, profanities and impossible demands.

In one instance, a former aide was said to have been left trembling and reduced to tears after being ‘bawled at’ by Andrew in a phone call made before dawn because the Duke was unhappy at a story in The Sun newspaper.

A source claimed: ‘People were shouted at regularly by the Duke of York and there would be crying in the corridors.

‘These staff members are not pushovers either, and they put up with an awful lot so it had to be very bad to have affected them in this way. He can be a very difficult person.’

On another occasion in 2016, Andrew was reported to have rammed his Range Rover through closed park gates close to his Royal Lodge home in Windsor to avoid a one-mile detour.

Simon Wilson, Britain’s Deputy Head of Mission in Bahrain between 2001 and 2005, described Andrew’s boorish and rude behaviour, asserting that the Prince issued a raft of unreasonable demands...

Blackening PA's character does not make him into a SAer. Perhaps VR should have checked his character first just as he was supposed to check her age first but it is 16yo in the UK anyway. I don't know why his advisers did not stop all this and state this fact. I am very against any SA but you need to have evidence.

 

[Dotta]

Blackening PA's character does not make him into a SAer. Perhaps VR should have checked his character first just as he was supposed to check her age first but it is 16yo in the UK anyway. I don't know why his advisers did not stop all this and state this fact. I am very against any SA but you need to have evidence.

Isnt it strange that VG was flown to another country to have sex with a member of the RF 20+her senior?
Doesnt it ring any alarm bells for you?
Were there any cameras in GM house?
It is all very strange and suspicious.
Im amazed that such situation took place and nobody intervened.

 

[Dotta]

Groping means different things to different people. Did the witness have a grudge against PA?

It is not fair to allude that a worker lied about the whole situation.
He described what he saw. MOO

 

[Estelle]

Isnt it strange that VG was flown to another country to have sex with a member of the RF 20+her senior?
Doesnt it ring any alarm bells for you?
Were there any cameras in GM house?
It is all very strange and suspicious.
Im amazed that such situation took place and nobody intervened.

Giuffre said she also had sexual encounters with Andrew in London, New York and in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The age of consent in all three places is 16 or 17, so any sexual encounter would not be statutory rape. Giuffre instead describes her alleged encounters with Andrew as coerced. He was "an abuser" .

Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre speaks

I guess I am mainly concerned about whether VG was raped and the age of consent is very borderline unless a girl is asked for her birth certificate. It says in the article above that it was not statutory rape. Also he cannot be charged with trafficking as it was Epstein and Maxwell who trafficked her. The way I see it is that many of these famous men could have been tricked into believing some of these girls were past the age of consent and then blackmailed by Epstein.

 

[Estelle]

Isnt it strange that VG was flown to another country to have sex with a member of the RF 20+her senior?
Doesnt it ring any alarm bells for you?
Were there any cameras in GM house?
It is all very strange and suspicious.
Im amazed that such situation took place and nobody intervened.

If VG was so worried, she should have reported it to LE when she left Epstein and Maxwell.

I think at the time, VG was impressed by having relations with a Prince so much that she had the photo of her and PA taken by Maxwell to give her parents to remember the occasion.

I have been a victim of SA, so I have empathy for survivors but I reported it to LE as soon as I could. However, I was over 16yo and the perpetrator told LE that it was consensual so I had no case. That is why I am a stickler for evidence.

 

[Dotta]

Giuffre said she also had sexual encounters with Andrew in London, New York and in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The age of consent in all three places is 16 or 17, so any sexual encounter would not be statutory rape. Giuffre instead describes her alleged encounters with Andrew as coerced. He was "an abuser" .

Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre speaks

I guess I am mainly concerned about whether VG was raped and the age of consent is very borderline unless a girl is asked for her birth certificate. It says in the article above that it was not statutory rape. Also he cannot be charged with trafficking as it was Epstein and Maxwell who trafficked her. The way I see it is that many of these famous men could have been tricked into believing some of these girls were past the age of consent and then blackmailed by Epstein.

This whole case concerning JE/GM is sinister. One man is already dead. I dont think the public will ever know the truth.

 

[Estelle]

It is not fair to allude that a worker lied about the whole situation.
He described what he saw. MOO

I asked a question. I did not state it as fact.

The witness, Steve Sculley, who had been summoned to fix a phone jack, continued: “They were initially lying on lounge chairs by the pool.

“When they stood up, they were in between the chairs.

“She wasn’t resisting in any manner whatsoever. The look on Andrew’s face was excitement.

“They were bumping and grinding and fooling around for five, six, seven minutes and they then laid back down on the lounge chairs and continued.”

Witness says he saw Prince Andrew grope Virginia Roberts on Epstein's island

IMO if a female does not resist, it is consensual. Does VG now expect PA to pay her millions of dollars for groping her when she did not resist. What would Epstein and Maxwell have done to her if she resisted?

 

[Dotta]

I asked a question. I did not state it as fact.

The witness, Steve Sculley, who had been summoned to fix a phone jack, continued: “They were initially lying on lounge chairs by the pool.

“When they stood up, they were in between the chairs.

“She wasn’t resisting in any manner whatsoever. The look on Andrew’s face was excitement.

“They were bumping and grinding and fooling around for five, six, seven minutes and they then laid back down on the lounge chairs and continued.”

Witness says he saw Prince Andrew grope Virginia Roberts on Epstein's island

IMO if a female does not resist, it is consensual. Does VG now expect PA to pay her millions of dollars for groping her when she did not resist. What would Epstein and Maxwell have done to her if she resisted?

VG was a pawn in the hands of JE/GM. She was underaged and vulnerable. She was being taken advantage of in a strange game played by evil people. She deserves every penny - but it is not about money I think.
This lawsuit is about dignity for victims and a warning for other predators.
Beware - you are not safe anymore. The silent decided to talk at last!
I keep my fingers crossed for Virginia and her lawyer - stay strong and dont give up!!!

 

[tayaway]

Blackening PA's character does not make him into a SAer. Perhaps VR should have checked his character first just as he was supposed to check her age first but it is 16yo in the UK anyway. I don't know why his advisers did not stop all this and state this fact. I am very against any SA but you need to have evidence.

How is former staff and diplomats testifying to POI PA's abusive treatment of staff and fellow dignitaries 'blackening his character' and what does it have to do with SA? The point is, he treats commoners and even other elites like disposable garbage. @Kemug argued that he was an innocent simpleton that VRG took advantage of and I responded with multiple witnesses that stated POI PA is a spoiled, abusive employer and colleague.

 

[tayaway]

She was not a minor in London.

At 17, VRG was a minor in America.

Giuffre said she also had sexual encounters with Andrew in London, New York and in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The age of consent in all three places is 16 or 17, so any sexual encounter would not be statutory rape. Giuffre instead describes her alleged encounters with Andrew as coerced. He was "an abuser" .

Jeffrey Epstein, Prince Andrew accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre speaks

I guess I am mainly concerned about whether VG was raped and the age of consent is very borderline unless a girl is asked for her birth certificate. It says in the article above that it was not statutory rape. Also he cannot be charged with trafficking as it was Epstein and Maxwell who trafficked her. The way I see it is that many of these famous men could have been tricked into believing some of these girls were past the age of consent and then blackmailed by Epstein.

Again, we've already established that at that time, VRG was legally considered a minor in America. Really, all these famous men were clueless about how old all these girls were? JE's plane was called the Lolita Express for a reason. We have testimonies from multiple associates and the like, of JE, that were startled by how young these girls looked, at his island, at his Manhattan mansion... Why are we making excuses for rich white men? Strange how we think these men all so clueless and innocent and yet they're the ones with all the money and power. It's almost like we help them uphold the system.

If VG was so worried, she should have reported it to LE when she left Epstein and Maxwell.

I think at the time, VG was impressed by having relations with a Prince so much that she had the photo of her and PA taken by Maxwell to give her parents to remember the occasion.

I have been a victim of SA, so I have empathy for survivors but I reported it to LE as soon as I could. However, I was over 16yo and the perpetrator told LE that it was consensual so I had no case. That is why I am a stickler for evidence.

I'm sorry to hear of your own experience of SA. It's frustrating to hear that LE did nothing, given that SA charges need to be laid, regardless of the victim's age, it just wouldn't be classified SA of a minor.

We've got to remember that victims are a diverse bunch and react differently, from never telling anyone, to VRG's actions. We can't force our own expectations on other victims. eta: Shoulda Woulda Coulda = victim blaming.

Do assumptions hold up in court? Let's not forget that her parents didn't give a rats *** about her. She was not living with either of them nor were they responsible for any of her needs. Do you have a link to MSM mentioning she wanted a pic of her with the POI PA?

 

[Kemug]

The way I see it is that many of these famous men could have been tricked into believing some of these girls were past the age of consent and then blackmailed by Epstein.

We don't know if Epstein ever did anything like this, but I certainly wouldn't put it past him.

 

[Estelle]

Teenage 'sex slave' Virginia Roberts claims she was paid £10,000 by Jeffrey Epstein to have sex with Prince Andrew

Speaking in an interview with the Mail on Sunday, the woman identified as Jane Doe #3 in fresh US court papers last week said it was “made clear to me that my job was to do whatever pleased him” by Epstein.

Teen 'sex slave' claims paedophile Epstein paid her £10,000 to sleep with Prince Andrew

So Epstein paid the girls.

 

[Estelle]

Tayaway said: "Do you have a link to MSM mentioning she wanted a pic of her with the POI PA?"

Virginia Roberts said Ms Maxwell asked Epstein to take a picture to show her family, and she then carried out her instructions to entertain the Prince.

Story behind iconic Prince Andrew photo with Virginia Giuffre - NZ Herald

VR probably showed that photo off to her parents and friends that she had had an encounter with PA until her lawyer asked her for the photo and told her that that photo could now be worth millions.