Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[cluciano63]

It's possible... But I'm not really so sure it was premeditated...I lean more towards it being more of him losing his temper or something along those lines. Of course I may be totally off since I am still struggling with the fact that he could have done anything at all...guess goes to show we never really know what goes on behind closed doors or only see what others want us to see. Guess we have to wait to see what info LE brings about

She may have mentioned divorce that day...and premeditation can be a matter of minutes. He also may have already determined he would never give up custody and the house, even if he had not directly thought of killing her.

 

[Abigail]

Tears for himself...

The only real ones. :anguish:

Wonder if he's got some Kleenix in :behindbar

 

[SouthAussie]

Parents in AZ for the season
Main hunting season had JUST ended
Alibi set up
Wanting to "spend the rest of his life" w/ mistress
Issues with and alluding to her online gaming friends with their friends
Shopping story
Hair dye story
Knowing the sauna schedule of his cop "friend"



It seems to me there are quite a few things pointing to premeditation. I'd love to hear other opinions and examples.

Add to the list the trail of crumbs leading to Jen …

Jen’s car being found in a ‘questionable’ environment

Jen’s phone being off, then conveniently back on for GR to find a bit further down the road

Jen herself being found even further down the road in a situation where someone dreamed it would mimic a sex offender crime


He overthought his plan, and it was his downfall IMO

 

[Abigail]

I predict he accepts a plea, that is only IF they'll offer him 15+ on the minimum end...If it's higher, I don't think he'll accept. Also depends upon how vicious and cruel the COD was, as well as what kind of case DA's got: don't believe they'll offer him lower than 20+.

I agree, but I think it will be the defense pleading for a plea bargain, not the D.A. I'm thinking somewhere between 15 to 20, but, as you said, it depends on the viciousness of the COD, and whether there's good evidence of premeditation.

Possibilities for plea & Sentencing guidelines for no priors:

1) Manslaughter 2nd degree - class C felony (3 1/2 to 15 years)
2) Manslaughter in 1st degree (this is what is 2nd degree murder in most states) - class B felony (5 to 25 years)

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article125.htm#p125.10
http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/sentencing.htm

 

[Abigail]

His other problem, IMO, was his affair was not just an ordinary affair, but was with one of Jen's BFs, if not closest GF...major problem if one has narcissistic traits.

So he had credit card debts, etc. in the past? VI Rick Blaine (and others-his friends), never saw violence between them; no overt abuse obvious between them or by him. He gaslighted her, MO.

He took a detour...Big Time.

Is he possibly a pathological liar like JA? Yeah, probably.

I've been thinking about the violence thing...maybe there wasn't violence (that we know of) in the past because of Jennifer's amiable nature. Maybe she (on the surface at least) went along with his demands and stroked his ego. I'm wondering if finding out about that appointment with a divorce attorney sparked a narcissistic rage?

Can anyone think of other examples where the husband suddenly killed the wife without prior (known) domestic violence in the home?

I can think of one from my youth (but wasn't able to find any links to that case -- guess it was too old)...my Mom's close friend was murdered by her husband. We socialized with them weekly, and I never saw any hint of violence, although he would sometimes get irritated with her -- treat her like the "foolish female" kind of thing, and I never remember him affirming her. Of course, lots of husbands do that, but don't kill.

 

[Abigail]

Interesting day with GR's attorneys following us up to Center rd while we worked on Jen's memorial - The look on our hillbilly faces when their Mercedes-Benz pulled up -- Priceless!!

Bear and I had the news crews rolling on the floor - Bear and Porter comparing shoes, she almost went home with his sneakers! No joke! I love these ladies and having Jillian' s hand to grab when the judge made his decision meant the world.

We make a good team, if I don't say so myself

<3 J4J

What on earth did they go up to Center Road for?? Just to see the site? Maybe consider the implications with regard to premed? Did they say anything to you? Can someone take a photo of the memorial and post it here?

You guys rock!!:rockon:

 

[Abigail]

Parents in AZ for the season
Main hunting season had JUST ended
Alibi set up
Wanting to "spend the rest of his life" w/ mistress
Issues with and alluding to her online gaming friends with their friends
Shopping story
Hair dye story
Knowing the sauna schedule of his cop "friend"



It seems to me there are quite a few things pointing to premeditation. I'd love to hear other opinions and examples.

1) Location of body (near other unsolved murder on One-eye road)
2) Location of phone (in area known to have poor/no service)
3) Timing: Just before winter snows set in (in addition to hunting season and parents in Arizona); also, 2 weeks before Christmas, so good excuse (shopping) for her to be gone all day
4) Body, phone, van left in 12 mile radius of Norwich, so enough time to dispose of everything and jog to the Y from apartments in about the same amount of time it would take to job from home to the Y

 

[Magiefeu]

She may have mentioned divorce that day...and premeditation can be a matter of minutes. He also may have already determined he would never give up custody and the house, even if he had not directly thought of killing her.

I could see it being premeditated if it were more "short term" as you mention, rather than a long thought out plan. The "facts" (hair, alibi, phone, etc) seem to be a bit panicked and not something well calculated IMO. Of course, since my original post and after reviewing a few items in retrospect, he may have been "prepping" in advance and laying down a foundation of sorts. This is rather chilling now that I think of it. I may be reading too much into it knowing all that has happened now since then, but maybe not. Unfortunately, premeditated or not - Jen was hurt and justice must be served. Just a little easier for me to come to grips with it if it wasn't a long calculated plan I think.

 

[ana]

I don't think there is anyway they can try and claim this was not a premeditated crime. EVERYTHING he did points to a plan. The phone, the hair color crap, the stop searching crap, the Y, finding the phone ALONE!!!

The PR team is what really caught my eye, the "facts" that were put out there were so wrong. :notgood: I am hoping that the PR teams motives are revealed soon, I am curious as to why they fought so hard for an obviously less than honorable man. I think that the stories that the PR team came out with were ludicrous---- a rock! I mean come on! :facepalm:

IMO Accidental -- Nope, not even close

GR can take his crocodile tears elsewhere, he is not sad about his crime, he is sad that he got caught. :notgood:

 

[zwiebel]

I don't know if it will be possible for LE to have found it, but I think there may have been a long period before Jennifer was murdered where GR was accessing her email/phone texts and msgs without her knowledge. And that GR may have been getting info about things she was thinking/saying from another source.

It will be very revealing to me if it's revealed he knew about Jennifer's divorce appointment, if she thought she had kept it secret.

As for the cause of death, the first time I saw GR's arms, I thought he might have broken Jennifer's neck, to be honest.

 

[zwiebel]

I asked around a little about a Dutch passport. Got back some very reasoned responses, I think.

GR left the Netherlands age 12, with a Dutch passport. He was too old to have travelled on his parents' passport then. That would have had to be renewed three times (probably with a visit to the Dutch embassy, NY) by now.

Why bother, being a US citizen now?

Because doing so would mean that here we have someone with the right to travel freely throughout the US and Canada without a visa, AS WELL AS throughout Europe, and Caribbean Islands linked to the Netherlands, without having to apply for a visa. He could just hop on a plane or boat and go. And probably his children could get that freedom too.

Having a Dutch passport would also probably mean he could get entitlement to the reciprocal arrangements re medical care etc when in Europe, and could also legally work. It would also mean he could do business as both a European and an American - I can see that having some benefits. Social security/free/greatly reduced medical/unemployment payments are all available in Europe to EU passport holders.

Why would anyone want to give all that up for the sake of not visiting the NY embassy and filling out a form a few times?

 

[zwiebel]

A little bit of info about the benefits available to Dutch passport holders with children. It includes rental payments, childcare payments, unemployment payments. An insurance of $1,000 something Euros a year would cover all your medical costs and that would be covered if you became unemployed.

I'm not saying GR planned to return to the Netherlands, but I'm just saying it must have been great for him to have both US and EU options and I can't see why he would have given one up with all the family links there.

http://www.iamsterdam.com/en-GB/living/work/employment-law-and-benefits/unemployment-benefits

 

[ana]

I asked around a little about a Dutch passport. Got back some very reasoned responses, I think.

GR left the Netherlands age 12, with a Dutch passport. He was too old to have travelled on his parents' passport then. That would have had to be renewed three times (probably with a visit to the Dutch embassy, NY) by now.

Why bother, being a US citizen now?

Because doing so would mean that here we have someone with the right to travel freely throughout the US and Canada without a visa, AS WELL AS throughout Europe, and Caribbean Islands linked to the Netherlands, without having to apply for a visa. He could just hop on a plane or boat and go. And probably his children could get that freedom too.

Having a Dutch passport would also probably mean he could get entitlement to the reciprocal arrangements re medical care etc when in Europe, and could also legally work. It would also mean he could do business as both a European and an American - I can see that having some benefits. Social security/free/greatly reduced medical/unemployment payments are all available in Europe to EU passport holders.

Why would anyone want to give all that up for the sake of not visiting the NY embassy and filling out a form a few times?

I dont think he can have dual citizenship:

Source:http://www.rsonac.org/dutch-nationality/dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html

If you acquired another nationality voluntarily before 1 April 2003, you lost your Dutch nationality automatically

 

[zwiebel]

You will not lose your Dutch nationality if....

2)"If, before you turned eighteen, you had your principal residence in the country of your other nationality for an uninterrupted period of five years"

Wouldn't this apply to GR? He arrived in the US at 12, so that's 6 years before he turned 18?

ETA: Info on link in post above mine.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Sharoneonta
Parents in AZ for the season
Main hunting season had JUST ended
Alibi set up
Wanting to "spend the rest of his life" w/ mistress
Issues with and alluding to her online gaming friends with their friends
Shopping story
Hair dye story
Knowing the sauna schedule of his cop "friend"



It seems to me there are quite a few things pointing to premeditation. I'd love to hear other opinions and examples.

1) Location of body (near other unsolved murder on One-eye road)
2) Location of phone (in area known to have poor/no service)
3) Timing: Just before winter snows set in (in addition to hunting season and parents in Arizona); also, 2 weeks before Christmas, so good excuse (shopping) for her to be gone all day
4) Body, phone, van left in 12 mile radius of Norwich, so enough time to dispose of everything and jog to the Y from apartments in about the same amount of time it would take to job from home to the Y

G. Remy Ramsaran, topped off Jennifer Ramsaran's van with gas, two days before the plot was carried out. GRR, would have retained the gas receipt to reinforce the planned mall shopping trip ruse, imo..

 

[zwiebel]

If the cash for Jennifer's shopping trip was ever actually withdrawn from the bank, and GR withdrew it, I think that could indicate premeditation too.

 

[SouthAussie]

I could see it being premeditated if it were more "short term" as you mention, rather than a long thought out plan. The "facts" (hair, alibi, phone, etc) seem to be a bit panicked and not something well calculated IMO. Of course, since my original post and after reviewing a few items in retrospect, he may have been "prepping" in advance and laying down a foundation of sorts. This is rather chilling now that I think of it. I may be reading too much into it knowing all that has happened now since then, but maybe not. Unfortunately, premeditated or not - Jen was hurt and justice must be served. Just a little easier for me to come to grips with it if it wasn't a long calculated plan I think.

The way I see it is .. instead of choosing divorce, GR chose to end his wife&#8217;s life.

This was preceded and/or followed by the building of an alibi, detailed planning, constructing a fabricated story, the generation of a myriad of lies about Jen, cocky behaviour, growing his relationship with his girlfriend, and countless hours of energy expended in charming some very vocal people into publicly supporting him and his lies .. as well as maintaining all of these behaviours for 5 months.

That takes a LOT of conscious and continuous deception, and should be considered in his upcoming trial.

 

[zwiebel]

Any unusual changes to GR's scheduled calls, joint working projects on the day Jennifer disappeared could indicate premeditation too, if they were arranged in advance.

 

[Abigail]

I could see it being premeditated if it were more "short term" as you mention, rather than a long thought out plan. The "facts" (hair, alibi, phone, etc) seem to be a bit panicked and not something well calculated IMO. Of course, since my original post and after reviewing a few items in retrospect, he may have been "prepping" in advance and laying down a foundation of sorts. This is rather chilling now that I think of it. I may be reading too much into it knowing all that has happened now since then, but maybe not. Unfortunately, premeditated or not - Jen was hurt and justice must be served. Just a little easier for me to come to grips with it if it wasn't a long calculated plan I think.

I can't imagine how hard this must be for you...as a friend of both Jennifer and GR. I must say that I commend your willingness to look at this objectively. And to want justice for Jennifer. Even when it means imagining the unimaginable being done by someone you care about.

 

[Abigail]

I saw the photos of some sort of memorial with the beautiful Justice for Jennifer signs on the J4J site? Is that Center Road? Could the nice person who posted it over there post it here? Or could I have permission to copy and post it here?