Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[upstate]

GR's last interview is one of the things that haunts me, in a sense I coached him and begged him to LU. By coaching, I mean I told him what everyone was saying -- one of the most talked about was his lack of emotion and crocodile tears -- Even though by that time I had already believed GR was responsible, I told him to think of Jen's face and her beautiful smile and how'd he'd feel if he could never hold her, hug her or kiss her ever again - I told him he would cry real tears.

When I watched the interview and saw him doing exactly what I had suggested, I felt like he was picturing what he had done to her. I felt so horrible because in my mind it hadn't played out as creepy and evil as it did on the news that night. My heart sank because I thought I had done something so truly horrible and evil myself -- I know what was meant by my telling him to do that and I wanted him to hurt for what he had done to Jen -- I never in a million years would have said a thing to him if I had only known what evil could come out of him

 

[Solus]

-- I never in a million years would have said a thing to him if I had only known what evil could come out of him

I understand. I would have never mentioned to Joe Mahoney about the online gaming and meeting someone online if I would have thought it possible that he had something to do with it.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

GR's last interview is one of the things that haunts me, in a sense I coached him and begged him to LU. By coaching, I mean I told him what everyone was saying -- one of the most talked about was his lack of emotion and crocodile tears -- Even though by that time I had already believed GR was responsible, I told him to think of Jen's face and her beautiful smile and how'd he'd feel if he could never hold her, hug her or kiss her ever again - I told him he would cry real tears.

When I watched the interview and saw him doing exactly what I had suggested, I felt like he was picturing what he had done to her. I felt so horrible because in my mind it hadn't played out as creepy and evil as it did on the news that night. My heart sank because I thought I had done something so truly horrible and evil myself -- I know what was meant by my telling him to do that and I wanted him to hurt for what he had done to Jen -- I never in a million years would have said a thing to him if I had only known what evil could come out of him

I understand. I would have never mentioned to Joe Mahoney about the online gaming and meeting someone online if I would have thought it possible that he had something to do with it.

Both of you.. you did what you thought was right at the time. Noone wants to believe these things when they're closely involved. Please don't beat yourselves up. What matters is you wanted to help Jen then and you want to do what you can for her now. And it is appreciated :grouphug:

 

[zwiebel]

I'd like to thank you guys too - it's brave of you to talk about this. I am not surprised at all this happened. We all like to think we are good judges of 'who' our friends really are, but in truth I think we often don't even know everything about 'who' we really are ourselves.

There is no going back on a murder, sadly. All anyone can do is try their best to make sure the person responsible is prevented from ever murdering anyone else, and try and limit all the other damage the murderer leaves in their wake. Because that seems to be the one thing you can be certain they all leave behind them, for other people to try and repair somehow.

 

[Abigail]

Both of you.. you did what you thought was right at the time. Noone wants to believe these things when they're closely involved. Please don't beat yourselves up. What matters is you wanted to help Jen then and you want to do what you can for her now. And it is appreciated :grouphug:

:goodpost:

Agree absolutely!!

Solus, your name sounds so lonely. I hope you realize how much we want you to feel welcome here (at least I do). I do hope the mods can figure out a way to get you verified (if that's what you want, and I can understand if you don't) without needing an ok from GR - maybe a photo of the 2 of you or email correspondence or something -- have no idea how all that works.

E pluribus unum :justice:

 

[Jilllian]

I understand. I would have never mentioned to Joe Mahoney about the online gaming and meeting someone online if I would have thought it possible that he had something to do with it.

Hindsight is 20/20. That said, I think you mentioning the online gaming thing was a good thing, at least as it worked out, because GR used it to paint Jen in a negative light, and that didn't fare so well for him.

Reading this from the verification process link: "We only verify people who know the players or have been named in the media, etc. This does not include people who may befriend a player on internet social media and then wish to post about it."

So, if you have been named in the media, you can become verified, with or without GR's permission. Also, you know GR and knew Jen. At least that's my understanding as it's written...

 

[Abigail]

Reading this from the verification process link: "We only verify people who know the players or have been named in the media, etc. This does not include people who may befriend a player on internet social media and then wish to post about it."

So, if you have been named in the media, you can become verified, with or without GR's permission. Also, you know GR and knew Jen. At least that's my understanding as it's written...

Yes, I think Joe Mahoney would be the key to getting verification (and no pressure, Solus, but if you want to share more freely without getting deleted). If you were quoted anonymously, then I think the WS admin can just verify w/ Joe that you were the one quoted (or you can provide an email from Joe or something). You would still be able to maintain your privacy -- the only person who would know your identity would be the one (maybe two) admins who do the verification -- not the rest of us.

 

[Abigail]

I don't think he wanted to divorce Jen. No way. That would mean giving up the house, dividing the assets and looking like a total :censored: who dumped his wife to be with a lover. No, the divorce was never an option for him. I'm petty sure it was Jennifer who wanted to divorce. Yes, she was Catholic, but believe me, Catholic people do divorce too. It's nothing unusual these days. I think Jen discovered GR's affair with ES and that was the last straw for her.

Now, when she did it she took the control over their relationship and for the narcissists like GR loosing the control is the worst nightmare. Add to it all the financial issues and you have GR's motive. By killing Jen he took the control back, he avoided losing any money and house, (he thought so) he kept his reputation intact, being now a poor widower, what meant attention and sympathy. A perfect solution

I quite agree with you about Jennifer taking control (by making an appointment with a divorce lawyer), and this sending GR over the edge. I do think it possible that he wanted a divorce, but on his terms. He wasn't prepared for Jennifer to assert herself.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I think if Joe quoted someone anonymously, he would have to be absolutely certain they were in agreement, before he would reveal their identity to anyone. I get the impression he is very much a journalist of integrity.

It would be very helpful to have another verified insider, I agree. I don't want Jennifer's thread to go too quiet in the runup to the trial. I know everyone's still watching and her facebook is a hive of activity, but it is good to have regular posters here too.

 

[Abigail]

Behavioral clues from this article (clues highlighted in red below):
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201304/big-lies-and-the-boogie-man
Taking another look at this video: http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Husband-Speaks-Out-on-Missing-Wife-188917661.html

a surprised brow..
Noted twice in one sentence: “there are days where I have hope” . Extreme raised brow in sentence, “you think about the worst”

In particular, the facial expressions of murderers were more likely to contain the raised upper lip of disgust
Raises upper lip in a sneer (very quickly, just as camera cuts out) when he says, “the not knowing is brutal” and again (fleeting) when he says Jennifer hadn’t been 190 lbs in years.

faster blinking
In sentence, “There are days…where…I have hope” he blinks on almost every syllable, and in between the word “days” and“where” he does a quick eye flutter where his eyes almost roll up in his head. In sentence, “…she changed…unfortunately” – extremely rapid blinking on word “changed”

slower speech with more hesitations –
"There are days…where…I have hope." “She…changed…unfortunately…and I’ll just leave it at that.”

Emotionally distancing words (not using “I&#8221
Uses 2nd person “You think about the worst…and you think about other possibilities…and you just don’t know”

words with less emotional intensity
Displays more emotion in this video (filmed same day?) but follows almost exactly the same script: (hope & no hope; it’s the not knowing that’s brutal)

Language used
Speaks of (and to) Jennifer in past tense: “That’s how I’ll always remember her” “I don’t think you ever…ever…knew…how much…how much we cared for you and how much you were loved and everything else.”

 

[Abigail]

Oh, I think if Joe quoted someone anonymously, he would have to be absolutely certain they were in agreement, before he would reveal their identity to anyone. I get the impression he is very much a journalist of integrity.

It would be very helpful to have another verified insider, I agree. I don't want Jennifer's thread to go too quiet in the runup to the trial. I know everyone's still watching and her facebook is a hive of activity, but it is good to have regular posters here too.

Yes, of course, Joe Mahoney would have to get permission from Solus before he could verify with the WS admin. that Solus was quoted in one of the articles. That goes without saying.

 

[Solus]

So, if you have been named in the media, you can become verified, with or without GR's permission. Also, you know GR and knew Jen. At least that's my understanding as it's written...

During the first attempt to become verified I had already been named with real name and as anonymous in an article.

I just sent an email to the WS staff member that corresponded with me back in March to see if there is another way.

 

[Solus]

Yes, of course, Joe Mahoney would have to get permission from Solus before he could verify with the WS admin. that Solus was quoted in one of the articles. That goes without saying.

If that is all it will take. I don't mind asking him.

 

[Abigail]

Behavioral clues from this article (highlighted in red below):
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201304/big-lies-and-the-boogie-man
Taking another look at this video: http://www.wbng.com/home/Ramsaran-Family-Spreads-Hope-For-Mothers-Return-191546791.html

a surprised brow...a smirk…the raised upper lip of disgust
(as he’s pointing to his children) “You see them…you know… they’re doing ok” – his brow is raised very high in this statement, his lip raises in disgust on “you know”, and then he smirks

And...of course...the famous freudian slip"There's no doubt in my mind that we're not going to see her again." (but note that as he's making that statement -- his mouth doesn't smirk, his lip doesn't curl, his eyes don't blink abnormally, his brow doesn't rise, he's very emphatic, and very fluent)

 

[SoSueMe]

Solus is now a Verified Insider on the Jennifer Ramsaran case.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you, SoSueMe.

 

[zwiebel]

Abigail, I was really looking forward to reading the psychology today blog you linked, when I had some time this evening. But it seems to have vanished. How disappointing.

Behavioral clues from this article (highlighted in red below):
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201304/big-lies-and-the-boogie-man
Taking another look at this video: http://www.wbng.com/home/Ramsaran-Family-Spreads-Hope-For-Mothers-Return-191546791.html

a surprised brow...a smirk…the raised upper lip of disgust
(as he’s pointing to his children) “You see them…you know… they’re doing ok” – his brow is raised very high in this statement, his lip raises in disgust on “you know”, and then he smirks

And...of course...the famous freudian slip"There's no doubt in my mind that we're not going to see her again." (but note that as he's making that statement -- his mouth doesn't smirk, his lip doesn't curl, his eyes don't blink abnormally, his brow doesn't rise, he's very emphatic, and very fluent)

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, it looks like the whole website has gone down. I hope that's nothing to do with a surge of WSers all trying to view it at the same time!

 

[Sharoneonta]

Solus, my apologies for being harsh to you the other night, I was upset and I took it out on you, I shouldn't have done that.

Now that you're verified I'd love to know your thoughts on what you think might have happened. Premeditation, accident etc...

Do you think Jenn knew of the affair?

 

[Solus]

Solus, my apologies for being harsh to you the other night, I was upset and I took it out on you, I shouldn't have done that.

Now that you're verified I'd love to know your thoughts on what you think might have happened. Premeditation, accident etc...

Do you think Jenn knew of the affair?

It's okay Sharoneta you weren't wrong.

I'm not sure how much she knew. I was present while GR was talking with Jen via FaceTime when Jen made a comment about ES being his trophy wife. When GR asked why she would say something like that. Jen said "she wasn't an idiot". Then made mention of GR offering to keep ES dogs at the their house, when he wouldn't have ever done it for anyone else.