Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[Abigail]

Yes, definitely -- any significant conversations or actions in the period prior to (which could, I suppose, be months or even years -- remembering that Drew Peterson bragged that he could commit the perfect murder and get by with it -- maybe a year or so before he actually did), and of course anytime since Jennifer's murder. Also material witnesses who observed signs of physical abuse -- those observations could go back months, years.

I was just thinking that ES knew GR well, and was in the car alone with him on the ride back from the YMCA, so her testimony as to his words and actions at that particular time would be quite relevant -- if he was acting as normal, or was unusually excited or nervous or something.

Thankfully, ES is back in a place of safety with her family who genuinely care about her. I would hate for any more children in Chenango County to lose their mother.

 

[upstate]

Yes, definitely -- any significant conversations or actions in the period prior to (which could, I suppose, be months or even years -- remembering that Drew Peterson bragged that he could commit the perfect murder and get by with it -- maybe a year or so before he actually did), and of course anytime since Jennifer's murder. Also material witnesses who observed signs of physical abuse -- those observations could go back months, years.

I was just thinking that ES knew GR well, and was in the car alone with him on the ride back from the YMCA, so her testimony as to his words and actions at that particular time would be quite relevant -- if he was acting as normal, or was unusually excited or nervous or something.

Thankfully, ES is back in a place of safety with her family who genuinely care about her. I would hate for any more children in Chenango County to lose their mother.

Looks can be deceiving -- This isn't adding up to the locals, I personally think ES family coming out of it's shell means something. Good or bad? I am thinking bad -- IMO, there has been a lot of lies told, but there has to be some truths in all of the lies -- ES should pick her men better because I don't know how safe the arms are wrapped around her -- Just because someone is willing to keep his cheating wife doesn't make him a saint -- ES family is still denying the relationship between ES and GR. How healthy of a relationship can she have gone back to? I don't believe for a second ES is any safer now than she was before --

 

[Maigret]

How on earth did he get bail ?

 

[Sharoneonta]

How on earth did he get bail ?

He got bail???!!!

 

[Jilllian]

How on earth did he get bail ?

Do you mean how on earth was bail SET? Or that he HAS made bail?
As far as I know, he hasn't made bail.
Although it's likely that he's trying to.

 

[upstate]

He got bail???!!!

Sorry, not that we have heard. If we hear different, we'll let you know

 

[upstate]

Are we aloud to give shout outs to our friends watching as guests?

Hey, Hey, Hey!

11 guests!

:seeya:

:heartbeat: Love you and wish you'd come join us

 

[Maigret]

Sorry, not that we have heard. If we hear different, we'll let you know

Oh my apologies I thought I read somewhere back up there that he got bail
Phew

 

[zwiebel]

Oh Maigret, you gave me quite a turn! Phew from me too! That was the post I've been dreading more than anything......

I just popped in to say that if I didn't know better, I could swear there is a bunch of people forming a queue to get thrown under the bus in this case. English people are rightly famous for their willingness to queue for anything and everything, but this is one even we'd steer well clear of.

Ah well, the trial cometh; along with national press coverage, I'll bet. We will see what happens then, when the American public gets to give its opinion. I was amazed when Bob's 'Disappeared' episode aired. Even with so many details having to be left out of the episode because of the short time-frame, and even though not one of the hundreds of deleted social media postings were mentioned, the public's reaction was very strong and very immediate. We Bob supporters appreciated it very much. I don't know if everyone close to the case did.

All my thoughts are with Jennifer's parents and children and sister at this time. Kind thoughts coming over the waves from here to there.

 

[zwiebel]

Having posted that, it's made me remember that there is a case of a missing person where a TV program has just been released, and they showed a load of screen shots from deleted fb postings! That was quite a surprise and very enlightening. I guess you never know what's out there, and what can be retrieved, or what LE or a DA might find useful.

 

[Abigail]

Remy said, "Screw justice, I want vengeance." I think all that any of us at WS want here, and all we have wanted throughout from the first week Jennifer went missing, is :justice:

I think the same holds true for J4J supporters.

We were not the ones who impeded justice by spreading rumors that Jennifer may have run off with a new boyfriend, or by giving the wrong color of a van, or discouraging searches, or by giving inaccurate and misleading statements about Jennifer, of by attempting to block the investigation of the PI hired by Jennifer's family, or by attempting to deflect attention away from the man who has now been indicted for her murder.

I, for one, have full confidence in the fine investigative work of Sheriff Cutting and the rest of the Chenango County LE who spent 5 months combing through the evidence, not to mention the invaluable contribution of the Onondaga Medical Examiner in performing the autopsy, testing and retesting and confirming all the forensic evidence. From statements from LE and the DA, the autopy and forensic evidence formed the basis for the finding of death by homicide, and it is the autopsy and forensic evidence that led LE to conclude that Jennifer died in her home at the hands of her husband.

I find it troubling that some folks have chosen to question the investigation. They insinuate "false arrest" or "circumstantial evidence only." I could understand if the questioning came from GR's defense team, but I can only wonder about the questionings of others -- and how one can purport to "assist" law enforcement while doubting the results of their careful, painstaking investigation?

I also find it troubling that some folks take issue with the fine journalists from the Daily Star, WBNG, YNN, Evening Sun, and others who have been following and reporting on this case -- interviewing law enforcement, DA, defense attorneys, friends and employer of Jennifer, and GR himself and his friends and supporters. It seems that certain people want everything "kept quiet." They suggest that these news reports are only "gossip" and impede the process of a "fair trial," and that people ought not to be discussing the facts of the case that have been released from LE and the DA, and duly reported in the media. It seems they prefer a sort of totalitarean society, where the media is only permitted to report a one-sided story which fits in with their pre-conceived notions. They seem to believe that common citizens have no right to express informed opinions. They apparently fail to grasp the journalistic code: "public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy."

I, for one, am proud to be a citizen of a country that protects my freedom of speech, the freedom of journalists to report the whole story, a country that protects the rights of the accused and grants a fair and just trial, and a country that has laws in place to protect the rights of the living victims.

 

[BrownRice]

I spent most of last night and this morning reading thru the 12 threads of posts. I think I'm caught up. This is so similar to the Nancy/Brad Cooper case it's scary. I'm hoping GR is as successful in his defense trial as Mr. Cooper.

 

[LivingJuicy]

I spent most of last night and this morning reading thru the 12 threads of posts. I think I'm caught up. This is so similar to the Nancy/Brad Cooper case it's scary. I'm hoping GR is as successful in his defense trial as Mr. Cooper.

:welcome6: Brown Rice!

 

[Foxfire]

I spent most of last night and this morning reading thru the 12 threads of posts. I think I'm caught up. This is so similar to the Nancy/Brad Cooper case it's scary. I'm hoping GR is as successful in his defense trial as Mr. Cooper.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/05/1177952/jury-finds-brad-cooper-guilty.html

Brad Cooper gets life for murder of wife, Nancy
Published: May 5, 2011

The parents and sister of Nancy Cooper speak to reporters after Brad Cooper was found guilty of her murder.
By Anne Blythe and Josh Shaffer — Staff writer

RALEIGH — Brad Cooper, the Cary man accused of strangling his wife Nancy inside their Cary home in July 2008 as their marital and financial troubles mounted, has been found guilty of first-degree murder by a Wake County jury.

Superior Court Judge Paul Gessner sentenced him to life in prison.

"Your verdict in this case speaks the everlasting truth," Gessner told the jurors, adding, "This case is a horrible, sad tragedy. ... I suspect this matter will weigh heavily upon you in the days to come."

Sheriff's deputies led Cooper, stone-faced, from the courtroom.
(read more)

 

[EmeraldLily]

Remy said, "Screw justice, I want vengeance." I think all that any of us at WS want here, and all we have wanted throughout from the first week Jennifer went missing, is :justice:

I think the same holds true for J4J supporters.

We were not the ones who impeded justice by spreading rumors that Jennifer may have run off with a new boyfriend, or by giving the wrong color of a van, or discouraging searches, or by giving inaccurate and misleading statements about Jennifer, of by attempting to block the investigation of the PI hired by Jennifer's family, or by attempting to deflect attention away from the man who has now been indicted for her murder.

I, for one, have full confidence in the fine investigative work of Sheriff Cutting and the rest of the Chenango County LE who spent 5 months combing through the evidence, not to mention the invaluable contribution of the Onondaga Medical Examiner in performing the autopsy, testing and retesting and confirming all the forensic evidence. From statements from LE and the DA, the autopy and forensic evidence formed the basis for the finding of death by homicide, and it is the autopsy and forensic evidence that led LE to conclude that Jennifer died in her home at the hands of her husband.

I find it troubling that some folks have chosen to question the investigation. They insinuate "false arrest" or "circumstantial evidence only." I could understand if the questioning came from GR's defense team, but I can only wonder about the questionings of others -- and how one can purport to "assist" law enforcement while doubting the results of their careful, painstaking investigation?

I also find it troubling that some folks take issue with the fine journalists from the Daily Star, WBNG, YNN, Evening Sun, and others who have been following and reporting on this case -- interviewing law enforcement, DA, defense attorneys, friends and employer of Jennifer, and GR himself and his friends and supporters. It seems that certain people want everything "kept quiet." They suggest that these news reports are only "gossip" and impede the process of a "fair trial," and that people ought not to be discussing the facts of the case that have been released from LE and the DA, and duly reported in the media. It seems they prefer a sort of totalitarean society, where the media is only permitted to report a one-sided story which fits in with their pre-conceived notions. They seem to believe that common citizens have no right to express informed opinions. They apparently fail to grasp the journalistic code: "public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy."

I, for one, am proud to be a citizen of a country that protects my freedom of speech, the freedom of journalists to report the whole story, a country that protects the rights of the accused and grants a fair and just trial, and a country that has laws in place to protect the rights of the living victims.

:clap:
Great post, Abigail! I completely agree!

My heart goes out to Jennifer's parents, siblings, and children!

I am BAFFLED by the continuing existence of and attitude displayed on specific sites that claim to be seeking justice for Jennifer, yet continue their disregard for her family and for her.

Apparently the term "humble pie" is unknown to them?

Not sure if I am allowed to say all of that, my apologies to the mods, if not.

 

[zwiebel]

I wonder if GR's lawyer will be mentioning any other people 'standing by' him, and making them headline news? I wouldn't be surprised because he'll want to show how much support his client has.

 

[Foxfire]

Very interesting article concerning changing times, social media, and awareness...imo

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new...html?hpt=hp_t1 via FIND MICKEY SHUNICK NOW! SEARCH RESOURCES FB Page;

Cold-case murders of 4 females brought back to life by new images, DNA tests
By Phil Gast, CNN
updated 3:04 PM EDT, Sat June 15, 2013
(snipped & BBM

Social media might have made a difference

The woman and the girls were killed before there was text messaging, Facebook and other forms of social media -- a fact not lost on investigators.
And, back in 1985, police did not have a clearinghouse for missing people. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children had been in existence for only one year.
Social media is a valuable tool for investigators, says the center's Williamson, who leads a five-member team.
"From the missing side it has helped in a lot of cases," she says. "You can see who perhaps who they were talking to. With teenagers, their friends know more than their families know."
Unlike in 1978 or 1985, people nowadays are extremely connected, be it through cell phones, e-mail or social media.
"If you don't get a text within two hours you might wonder what is going on," says Williamson.
Still, she cautions, there are still cases today when people "are not reported missing for various reasons."
Ebert says someone critical to identifying the four victims may not have come forward because of a sense of criminal liability or guilt for not having provided clues sooner. The victims, he says, may have been part of a disjointed family.
He hopes the DNA testing may clearly show the relationships among the four victims, providing police and the public more opportunities to identify them. "It's an awful tragedy to lose a person to a homicide. It is terrible miscarriage of justice not to know who carried out the crime against your loved one."
Williamson and her team are working on 650 cases involving unidentified children. The oldest case is from Arizona, in 1933.
Since November 2011, the team has helped identify seven children, one of whom was a victim of Gary Ridgway, the so-called Green River Killer, she says.
DNA helped solve the cases. Now Williamson hopes to give a family a sense of closure.
"A good day is giving a child their name back," she says. "And we get very excited."
snipped-read more..

 

[Abigail]

Very interesting article concerning changing times, social media, and awareness...imo

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new...html?hpt=hp_t1 via FIND MICKEY SHUNICK NOW! SEARCH RESOURCES FB Page;

Cold-case murders of 4 females brought back to life by new images, DNA tests
By Phil Gast, CNN
updated 3:04 PM EDT, Sat June 15, 2013
(snipped & BBM

Social media might have made a difference


snipped-read more..

Thanks! Great article. I couldn't access the link, but just typed in the title into google and pulled it up. Maybe this link will work.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new-hampshire-bodies-mystery

Too bad Websleuths wasn't around when that lady and 3 little girls were discovered.

 

[zwiebel]

Social media has provided a chance for loved ones of many victims to have some badly-needed control and input into their loved ones case, finally. And to reach out to many other people too. If it had been around when my own family member disappeared, it wouldn't have been so many years before her body was discovered. There just wasn't anywhere to turn to in those days. Her murderer was so confident the only organisation available for families wouldn't be able to do anything, he went and asked them for help to find her!

They didn't help locate her, of course, but it made him look good and discouraged others from asking questions too. Thank heavens things are very different now.....although they could still be much better, imo.

 

[Abigail]

Thanks! Great article. I couldn't access the link, but just typed in the title into google and pulled it up. Maybe this link will work.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new-hampshire-bodies-mystery

Too bad Websleuths wasn't around when that lady and 3 little girls were discovered.

Sorry to quote myself, but just wondering...does this case have its own WS thread, and if so, what is the name? (since the name of the lady and 3 little girls is not known).