Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #13

[LL8511]

I don't think the affair by itself was the motive. The affair + x could = motive. Not saying that it didn't contribute or even spawn the x. If the prosecution has only a circumstantial case, then I would think there needs to be an explanation of the x.

Do you think
X could be that ES moved back home with husband and he thought he was losing her which in his mind would be Jen's fault.

If he was planning to just get thru Xmas and then divorce something happened.

Or possibly she caught them together the day she was supposed to go to the mall?
Or they planned it and ES moving home was part of the plan?

I'm with you I hope the DA has the X

Solus ....Does any one of these X make more sense ..... in talking with GR or the OW?

Here is a reminder of the other X's from South


‘x’ = GR wanting to keep the house, and keep the children

‘x’ = Jen seeking advice elsewhere

‘x’ = Jen never agreeing to give up the children or their home

‘x’ = Jen seeking child support

‘x’ = life insurance policy on Jen

‘x’ = GR losing his cool when he realized things weren’t going to go exactly as he planned



Solus let me just say I'm very sorry you have been put in this situation! I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you!

 

[Solus]

Excellent post! I do hope that the defense doesn't win their campaign of turning a key material witness hostile to the prosecution.

Which witness would that be?

The only people mentioned in the article were never going to be friendly to the prosecution.

 

[Solus]

Do you think
X could be that ES moved back home with husband and he thought he was losing her which in his mind would be Jen's fault.

If he was planning to just get thru Xmas and then divorce something happened.

Or possibly she caught them together the day she was supposed to go to the mall?
Or they planned it and ES moving home was part of the plan?

I'm with you I hope the DA has the X

Solus ....Does any one of these X make more sense ..... in talking with GR or the OW?

Here is a reminder of the other X's from South


‘x’ = GR wanting to keep the house, and keep the children

‘x’ = Jen seeking advice elsewhere

‘x’ = Jen never agreeing to give up the children or their home

‘x’ = Jen seeking child support

‘x’ = life insurance policy on Jen

‘x’ = GR losing his cool when he realized things weren’t going to go exactly as he planned



Solus let me just say I'm very sorry you have been put in this situation! I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you!

Thank you LL. I don't think the life insurance policy would have had anything to do with it. That is not meant as an argument or that it may not typically be a motive. I just don't believe that in this case it was the "x".

I don't know what the x is or I'd have shared it with LE. Just guessing maybe a combination of all of them. Once the COD is released then a more accurate theory could be formulated. Without knowing how its to hard to speculate. If she had been poisoned over time then the first suggestions wouldn't make sense. If it was instantly maybe a confrontation took place in which all that Aussie mentioned were part of it.

 

[SouthAussie]

Things had changed, he had to sort this out quickly, OW had to move back in with her hubby for financial reasons (my own opinion) ….. a divorce and settlement can be a long, drawn out thing - especially if your wife isn’t going to agree to your terms.

He didn’t have the ready cash to move out and set up house with OW and children .. plus pay child support, a divorce lawyer, possible alimony (?), possible continued mortgage payments, bills for his own children’s lives, trips away with his running club.

Jen had to go.

 

[Abigail]

I'll find it incomprehensible if the witness jumps on the sinking ship of the defence. When it goes down it is going to drag anyone within reach down with it, and for what? I can imagine standing by someone serving a very long prison sentence must be pretty limiting, if not downright tedious. A weekly visit in the unpleasant surroundings of a jail, for year after year after year.....

You would really have to be certain someone was worth it to do that. Jennifer seemed a pretty loyal type of person, with a heart of gold. But if what happened to her is any example, standing by GR just a little bit too long doesn't seem to be a good idea at all.

Indeed -- it would especially be a drag if her only reward for loyalty was GR abandoning her for the new girlfriend. Or worse.

 

[Abigail]

Which witness would that be?

The only people mentioned in the article were never going to be friendly to the prosecution.

I was referring to ES, who has been named as a material witness, presumably by the prosecution. Have you spoken to her since GR's arrest?

<modsnip>
Solus...I remember you taking a similar path...and mentioning that it was GR's comments after his arrest that sort of turned you around, so to speak. But, did you have doubts earlier?

 

[Abigail]

Thank you LL. I don't think the life insurance policy would have had anything to do with it. That is not meant as an argument or that it may not typically be a motive. I just don't believe that in this case it was the "x".

I don't know what the x is or I'd have shared it with LE. Just guessing maybe a combination of all of them. Once the COD is released then a more accurate theory could be formulated. Without knowing how its to hard to speculate. If she had been poisoned over time then the first suggestions wouldn't make sense. If it was instantly maybe a confrontation took place in which all that Aussie mentioned were part of it.

I've thought of poisoning over time, because of all her health problems, some that seemed hard to diagnose. But...I lean more toward a sudden death -- maybe premeditated for a short period of time, maybe something done in the heat of the moment.

Sometimes, I wonder, if he could have worked it out, if GR would have been hapy remaining married to Jen, but keeping ES as his mistress.

 

[Solus]

I was referring to ES, who has been named as a material witness, presumably by the prosecution. Have you spoken to her since GR's arrest?

<modsnip>
Solus...I remember you taking a similar path...and mentioning that it was GR's comments after his arrest that sort of turned you around, so to speak. But, did you have doubts earlier?

There were several events that caught me wrong, but I found alternative explanations for them. Then felt guilty that I was thinking about him being involved.

<modsnip>

Though that could be due to guilt. Acknowledging GRs guilt may bring up thought that if she hadn't been involved with him, then Jen may still be here. That is a heavy burden to contemplate.

 

[Solus]

Also it may not be loyalty that keeps the witness with the defense. It could be fear. Depending on the strength of the prosecutions case.

Think about it. If he is guilty of killing his wife and is not convicted. What do you think he may do to some that testifies.

 

[Solus]

I've thought of poisoning over time, because of all her health problems, some that seemed hard to diagnose. But...I lean more toward a sudden death -- maybe premeditated for a short period of time, maybe something done in the heat of the moment.

Sometimes, I wonder, if he could have worked it out, if GR would have been hapy remaining married to Jen, but keeping ES as his mistress.

I would agree. It was my understanding that she went to the doctor frequently.

(Not putting her down, or stating it as a fact, just what was told to me)

I would think slow poisoning would have been found during tests.

 

[Abigail]

I would agree. It was my understanding that she went to the doctor frequently.

(Not putting her down, or stating it as a fact, just what was told to me)

I would think slow poisoning would have been found during tests.

Well, Jennifer also made a couple postings about her numerous health issues.

It appears that something must have been found on the tox screen. LE indicated that GR's arrest was made as a result of the final autopsy report. But I'm leaning more toward some sort of sudden poisoning -- an overdose of her own meds, or maybe something else slipped in that would cause a fatal reaction with the meds she was taking, or that would kill her on their own. Or, at least render her unconscious, so she could be smothered without leaving a mark.

If she died of slow poisoning, her symptoms would have probably intensified shortly before her death, and there was no indication of that. Of course, it could be the slow poisoning had been attempted at first, and when that didn't work (fast enough), he went to Plan B.

Do you happen to know when she started going to the doctor frequently? As I recall, the postings she made about her health issues were done in Fall 2012.

 

[Solus]

Well, Jennifer also made a couple postings about her numerous health issues.

It appears that something must have been found on the tox screen. LE indicated that GR's arrest was made as a result of the final autopsy report. But I'm leaning more toward some sort of sudden poisoning -- an overdose of her own meds, or maybe something else slipped in that would cause a fatal reaction with the meds she was taking, or that would kill her on their own. Or, at least render her unconscious, so she could be smothered without leaving a mark.

If she died of slow poisoning, her symptoms would have probably intensified shortly before her death, and there was no indication of that. Of course, it could be the slow poisoning had been attempted at first, and when that didn't work (fast enough), he went to Plan B.

Do you happen to know when she started going to the doctor frequently? As I recall, the postings she made about her health issues were done in Fall 2012.

They go back further than the fall. They were mentioned at least in March 2012. However, not positive as to which issues. GR mentioned health problems when he was here then. We never discussed what they were.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Also it may not be loyalty that keeps the witness with the defense. It could be fear. Depending on the strength of the prosecutions case.

Think about it. If he is guilty of killing his wife and is not convicted. What do you think he may do to some that testifies.

It is always more damaging and dangerous to align yourself with a murderer, than to stand against them, in my opinion. It is an opinion based on personal experience though.

Obviously, we all have to make our own choices, but in my experience murderers are notoriously unreliable and can't be trusted not to try and murder people who love them, even when those people think they are loved in return. My murdering uncle was freed under exceptional circumstances - and it isn't just me who knows that was a very bad mistake (it's okay, he's dead now).

I personally would rather be living apart from a freed murderer, with EVERYONE knowing I testified against him and he hates me, than living WITH a murderer, who everyone thinks loves me and would never harm me.

Obviously, if GR is found not guilty, that means he's not a murderer at all. He'll be innocent and free to marry, as a widower. Good luck with that one, all you eligible women in Chenango County.

 

[Bettylou4you]

Poisoning over time doesn't make sense for me. How would GR have controlled it enough to know she would succumb at such a convienient time, he had a story all ready that she was going out, no one was around etc... It would been too much of a gamble, what if she died around other people or in public. Actually, maybe that would have been better for GR, as he may have not been there or could have tried to save her in public. So i guess i havent answered my own question, have I?

 

[zwiebel]

They go back further than the fall. They were mentioned at least in March 2012. However, not positive as to which issues. GR mentioned health problems when he was here then. We never discussed what they were.

I cannot think of a single health issue that would result in me being found naked and dead at the side of a highway. Even lifelong drug addicts and suicides keep their clothes on.

I'm beginning to think that GR was bright, but not fiercely intelligent. And he was a bit indecisive - maybe flitting around from idea to idea, plan to plan?

 

[nanasbabes]

Been busy and checking in here as well. Wanted to share the news of a benefit for Jenns kids is in the making for September 14th. It is also being held at Plymouth firehouse, in the township Jenn was found in. I am so excited to have this taking place and also being a part of it! Have a great nite all.

 

[zwiebel]

Great news nanasbabes. Whatever form it takes, I'm sure it will be a really inclusive, supportive event which will put Jennifer and the welfare of her children at the centre. I bet you'll come up with something very interesting too. I wish I could be there.

 

[zwiebel]

I tried to find a pic of Plymouth firehouse, so I could feel a little closer to the event, if you know what I mean. I didn't find that, but I did find a video of it being built!

 

[Maigret]

A benefit - that's great

 

[nanasbabes]

There is another daily star article in today's paper. Joe rock's. In it Joe mentioned Our benefit for the kids! I'm so excited we got media coverage on this.