Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[LivingJuicy]

There are now many posts on the Missing Person fb page from people reaching out directly to Jennifer, telling her that it's okay to come home. I can't imagine why no one started doing this 5 weeks ago, but at least they're doing it now.

My feelings have totally flip-flopped again, and I do believe it's possible that she ran away. But I also still believe that the other theory is entirely possible. Sigh........... really don't know what to think.

I think that I'll just start here as I missed a few pages yesterday..

I've just read over on the missing JR FB and yes, agreed, quite a few comments begging and pleading for her to come.

Except, the majority don't know Jen and the few that were closest to her still make me uncomfortable.

Example: GR saying 'I truly believe JR never knew how much she was loved by everyone." Or something to that effect.. love-d?
I know past tenses don't always mean anything and by far, I'm not trying to be a linguistic person here but since he publicly gave up hope a week in, and said she would never leave on her own, I'm curious where this new idea of her abandoning her life came from?

Sort of seems IMO IMO that this is the new hop on the bandwagon of theories that probably started harmlessly enough with missing campaigns getting involved.

In honor of this being a victim friendly site, I'll just leave it at this.

IMO, Jennifer did not just run away from her life. I still can't even believe it at .10 percent. But it's just my opinion.

 

[Jilllian]

Can you be a little more specific? The van was found parked in a parking lot, so how can we know for certain what side of the vehicle it was tossed out of?

I think it would be more helpful to know what specific side of the road it was on...the North side or South side? I don't think we can really accurately determine what direction the vehicle was going when the phone was tossed because it could have been thrown from the driver's seat out the passengers' window.

But we can speculate that it was more than likely tossed in one of these manners:
North of road: tossed from driver's side driving East (towards Norwich)
North of road: tossed from passenger's side driving West (away)
South of road: tossed form driver's side dring West (away)
South of road: tossed from passenger's side driving East (to town)

Also.....the phone could have been tossed from a different vehicle and not Jen's van or it could have been placed there via other means.

Go back and check out OffRoadRunner's post and pics in the old thread. Excellent photos there with information and maps regarding precisely where the car and phone were found, distance between the two, etc. Phone was found approximately 5 miles from the car, on the north side of where Route 23 meets Moon Hill Road. That makes me believe it was thrown out of the driver's side window, as the driver apparently continued to drive east (away from Syracuse) to abandon the car in Norwich. The maps and previous explanations explain much better than I just did though.

PS: I never said we could know for certain. I said it "appears..."

 

[LivingJuicy]

<Mod Snip>
Friends and family who know her say her family was everything. It would seem to take a VERY strong person to walk away from everything they know and have and start a new life...it is just silly. She definitely didn't leave on her own...it is all presentation.

Any news on searches by SAR or LE by any locals?

Unfortunately I agree.

Ok, so she left. Where is she? How is she supporting herself?

Hey, it's not like GR said, she cashed out our IRA and left. Then I'd be more inclined to think - ok, she took off.

No family or friends are harboring her. She has no vehicle, no money, no phone (speculative.)

IMO highly unlikely. I would have guessed she was a victim to foul play before believing she just up and left.

 

[LivingJuicy]

You'd be very very surprised! People would say the same about me and I certainly portray that - but a few short years ago I would have walked away from it all. I didn't only because I figured I would be found anyway and have to come back to it all - what was the point. Its a very desperate situation. No matter how much you love your family - and sometimes its out of love for your family, because that's what you think. The mind is powerful.

I love my family dearly. Thank goodness for my husband who recognized my desperation and got me help. If that had not happened I shudder to think what I might have done.

Sorry for the confessional. Just trying to bring to light that things are not always as they seem.

Penny, hugs. Thank you for sharing. It is true that not all is what it seems. We all don't know what each other are really struggling with way deep down.

Facades are not everything.

I think that if GR initially advised that his wife had been struggling with something, whether it was depression or maybe even pain/medical issues, I would be more inclined to think she needed to get a way.

But because his initial stance was that she would never leave her family was so adamant, it's been hard for me to get off that side of the fence.

I am a firm believer that people will tell them about themselves. You just have to listen.

 

[LivingJuicy]

Looks like a certain "best friend" posted something on the Missing Person page, if anyone wants to go look.

(hope I'm not breaking the rules here! trying to be careful. I didn't quote or discuss anything, and it's a public missing person's page, so hopefully I'm in the clear)

Well with friends like that..

I gotta say, if JR is out there and by chance reading this, I'm sure she's really realizing a lot about her friends. Rumors, maybe.

However; seems that there could be some truth to them and IMO, if JR is alive and well, she does have a real good reason not to go home.

Obviously other than her babies.

 

[LivingJuicy]

LOL! I didn't notice that.



Yeah, I was trying to think positively, but couldn't help but notice that it's going to be awhile before this event even occurs. I figure it might take a while to plan it, gather supplies, gather volunteers, that sort of thing?

But the sooner the better, right!!? She's already been missing 6 1/2 weeks.

Agreed. Better late than never.

I think I'm getting bitter.

It seems that all developments and moves in terms of finding JR or what's been happening on social media, all seem to stem from what's being discussed her.

IN a way, that's a great thing. Let's bring JR home.

But in a way, I feel like it's a game of chess sometimes. I just don't know how genuine everything really is

Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[LivingJuicy]

Oh that's it! I gotta come back now,...I miss you crazy people!
:floorlaugh:

I've been looking for you!!!! Welcome back!

 

[Jilllian]

Example: GR saying 'I truly believe JR never knew how much she was loved by everyone." Or something to that effect.. love-d?

Yes. Speaking of a loved one in the past tense weirded me out, especially given the the fact that he has publicly stated that he's "given up hope" of JR being found alive, just a week into her disappearance.

"never knew how much she WAS loved." Not "IS loved".

 

[LivingJuicy]

I've not read through all of the posts and/or the rumors to what everyone is thinking or past postings...so not sure how controlling husband, not allowed to work , and her family keeping quiet....etc...but were you aware her parents live right next door? Yes. I don't think anyone brought that up that I've seen but wouldn't you think if Jennifer's lifestyle was from a controlling or abusive spouse (as some are saying may be the situation) that her parents would know this considering they are next door neighbors? Yes, they go to AZ part of the time and live the rest of the time next door. The children are all back and forth...surely they would be crying at Gramma's if they felt home life was scary or problematic.

Lavanda,

I don't know if GR was controlling or didn't allow JR to work or if there were marital issues.

What I do know that is if there were issues of abuse or marital problems, it is possible that no one would know. Even the children.

Lots of abuse is MENTAL and EMOTIONAL and can be done in ways even non verbal. Holding out affection, shutting down and ignoring, turning to the computer versus spending time together, denying sex and maybe cheating.

Those are minor examples. No one would really know. A mom can still cook, clean, sew and smile and inside be dying and desperate, knowing her marriage is over. Clinging to hope that it can work, at least for the kids sake.

Neighbors, family or not, wouldn't know anything.

I don't think GR had a history of beating up JR at all.

If there was abuse it wasn't physical, IMO.

I remind myself, I'd rather take a punch anyday than to be mentally abused.

 

[imamaze]

Lavanda, can you tell us who had access to Jennifer's fb? I'm assuming yourself and her husband? I know people will usually share passwords but seems like there would be a privacy breach there?
Well done for organising the event and doing the video as well. You are certainly getting a lot done to get Jennifer's name and face out there.:applause::applause:

I don't think it would be a privacy breach if its her husband? although I'm not sure it would be a privacy breach making a FB page private or pics of the children?

Ima

 

[Hexe]

Lavanda,

I don't know if GR was controlling or didn't allow JR to work or if there were marital issues.

What I do know that is if there were issues of abuse or marital problems, it is possible that no one would know. Even the children.

Lots of abuse is MENTAL and EMOTIONAL and can be done in ways even non verbal. Holding out affection, shutting down and ignoring, turning to the computer versus spending time together, denying sex and maybe cheating.

Those are minor examples. No one would really know. A mom can still cook, clean, sew and smile and inside be dying and desperate, knowing her marriage is over. Clinging to hope that it can work, at least for the kids sake.

Neighbors, family or not, wouldn't know anything.

I don't think GR had a history of beating up JR at all.

If there was abuse it wasn't physical, IMO.

I remind myself, I'd rather take a punch anyday than to be mentally abused.

You're absolutely right. Absolutely! And there is the other thing - the abusers do not want to look like a bad people and the abused very often are ashamed of being the victims, so both sides keep the facade of a happy relationship, even for these nearest and dearest. But behind that facade is a living hell. So yes, even the parents living the next door can not be aware of the abuse going on.

 

[OffRoadRunner]

I still think searching is important!! That is, if she is out there. Our VERY cold weather and snow on the ground makes that very hard. It is going to be back up in the 40s and 50s this week, so what little snow we have should melt and help with that.

I am thinking of going over to see the owner of a piece of property and searching the back side of his property, specifically on the "DEAD END" road, not far from Jennifer's home. People have stressed it's ok to only search "PUBLIC" land... but why not get owner's permission for "Private" land. That stressing of "Public" land being ok has bothered me since it was stated. If she's on "Private" property yet only "Public" land is searched, she'll never be found if she is out there.

The "Dead End" road looks like it goes all the way over to Button Hallow but in reality, it dead ends at an old farmstead that now only has a farm machinery bldg used my Mr. Bida. My other thought is to go over and search the Miller Road, off the W. Brook Road - this is a well known "Party" spot, that goes up, dead ends, and borders state land. It is not far from where the Dead End road would intersect w/ W.Brook Road.

My ideas on areas needing to be searched:

- Plymouth / Pharsalia area of Finger Lakes Trail
- Jackson Pond in the Pharsalia State Land, on John Smith Road
- Round Pond, above the intersection of Resevoir Hill Road and Chan Aldrich Road in Plymouth
- Ravine on Moon Hill Road, Plymouth
- Dead End Road, New Berlin
- Miller Road, New Berlin

I know they don't want searches (or so some people would like us to believe) - but I still just don't get that. Perhaps a Press Conference by our local LE agency would maybe occur sooner rather than later... to help us all understand what is going on. (as people keep saying that there is more to all this than people know)

Thought - If she's out there, she's not going to be far off the beaten path, if she did weigh close to 190lbs - I don't care how strong or in-shape someone is, carrying that amount of weight would be tough to go very far alone.

 

[imamaze]

Just a reminder...

Jennifer's husband is not a suspect or person of interest. He can not be discussed in that manner. You can discuss him only with what we know to be facts from law enforcement, main stream media and Lavanda has been verified in this case as well.

Ima

 

[SyraKelly]

Interesting development!!!

http://www.prlog.org/12067426-family-of-missing-mother-to-hold-event.html

"LostNMissing Inc, the nonprofit organization in New England is assisting the husband and family of missing Jennifer Ramsaran. The group, along with family and friends, will be holding a public event titled "Shining Hope" to help bring awareness of Jennifer's missing status. The public and media will be invited to attend."

"The Shining Hope event will take place on Saturday, February 16, 2012 from 10:00 am - 11:00 am in New Berlin, NY."

I am a little surprise this event is only for 1 hr-but I will attend if DH does not have to work that weekend!

 

[dillysmom11]

I've been reading, not posting, I don't have much to add. Especially since out of the gate I figured who's responsible for JR's disappearance. MOO. But would someone please post the BFF's initials? Somehow I missed that. TIA!

 

[LivingJuicy]

Dilly,

I'm in a place with bad reception. Her initials are ES.

If you look on the missing FB page, she comments that she misses the singing in he car and the "jenisms" as well as Jenny's gym. Hope you find it.

 

[amberdawn723]

Go back and check out OffRoadRunner's post and pics in the old thread. Excellent photos there with information and maps regarding precisely where the car and phone were found, distance between the two, etc. Phone was found approximately 5 miles from the car, on the north side of where Route 23 meets Moon Hill Road. That makes me believe it was thrown out of the driver's side window, as the driver apparently continued to drive east (away from Syracuse) to abandon the car in Norwich. The maps and previous explanations explain much better than I just did though.

PS: I never said we could know for certain. I said it "appears..."

I went back and checked OffRoadRunner's posts and found this:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8738321#post8738321
Is this the one you were referring to? I read several pages around this post by I still don't see where it was stated that is was on the North side of the road.:waitasec: Maybe I'm just missing it somewhere......

I have it mapped out at the right intersection (Moon Hill Road and HW 23), and I see the Creek that runs NW to SE under HW 23 right next to this intersection.
OffRoadRunner, do you know if it was found on the North side of the road and I'm just missing where you stated this?? TIA

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I still think searching is important!! That is, if she is out there. Our VERY cold weather and snow on the ground makes that very hard. It is going to be back up in the 40s and 50s this week, so what little snow we have should melt and help with that.

I am thinking of going over to see the owner of a piece of property and searching the back side of his property, specifically on the "DEAD END" road, not far from Jennifer's home. People have stressed it's ok to only search "PUBLIC" land... but why not get owner's permission for "Private" land. That stressing of "Public" land being ok has bothered me since it was stated. If she's on "Private" property yet only "Public" land is searched, she'll never be found if she is out there.

The "Dead End" road looks like it goes all the way over to Button Hallow but in reality, it dead ends at an old farmstead that now only has a farm machinery bldg used my Mr. Bida. My other thought is to go over and search the Miller Road, off the W. Brook Road - this is a well known "Party" spot, that goes up, dead ends, and borders state land. It is not far from where the Dead End road would intersect w/ W.Brook Road.

My ideas on areas needing to be searched:

- Plymouth / Pharsalia area of Finger Lakes Trail
- Jackson Pond in the Pharsalia State Land, on John Smith Road
- Round Pond, above the intersection of Resevoir Hill Road and Chan Aldrich Road in Plymouth
- Ravine on Moon Hill Road, Plymouth
- Dead End Road, New Berlin
- Miller Road, New Berlin

I know they don't want searches (or so some people would like us to believe) - but I still just don't get that. Perhaps a Press Conference by our local LE agency would maybe occur sooner rather than later... to help us all understand what is going on. (as people keep saying that there is more to all this than people know)

Thought - If she's out there, she's not going to be far off the beaten path, if she did weigh close to 190lbs - I don't care how strong or in-shape someone is, carrying that amount of weight would be tough to go very far alone.

Thanks for offering to search...

Great ideas... I am thankful for locals who know the area!

Be safe.... And let us know what you find!

:grouphug:

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I wish I knew what side of the road her phone was found. Left or right traveling west/east. Has that been communicated? I don't know why - I just want to know.

If it was found on the right side of the road; and we presume she had ditched the van and got in the car with someone else traveling west out of town, then we can hypothesize that SHE, the passenger, threw the phone out the passenger window.

If the phone was found on the left side of the road and we presume, again, she was in someone else's vehicle then most likely the driver threw it out the driver side window.

If the phone was found on the right side of the road (traveling West); and we presume she was traveling east back into town, then it was most likely tosssed from the drivers side.

Etc., etc.

Come home Jen!

The only problem is that while it may seem to narrow some of the possibilities of how a phone is found...whether left or right because what if a cell is in a passengers pocket and they are trying to call 9-1-1 and the driver yanks it from them and rolls the passenger window down and throws it out that window because that is where the grassy part of road would be. Know what I mean? It wouldn't be so much which window it was thrown as much as it would help in determining the direction of travel. So the same could be said if the person was driving by them self and wanted to throw it out the window...they would use the passenger window otherwise their window would be the roadway....unless they are on a bridge of some sort and then if they threw it out the driver window it could spin and be carried and fall in a way that a direction could be hard to determine.

 

[Sharoneonta]

feel free to google it. the info. is all over the internet.

Yeah , I've been looking but can't seem to come up with much, that's why I was hoping you could point me in the right direction. Thanks!