Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[Lavanda Dolce]

I had a friend some years ago who up and left her husband and three young boys, and we all knew her boys meant everything to her at the time. She left with another man, didn’t tell anyone she was going, and left everything behind.

When I spoke with her many months later, she said that she had no say in the household, her husband overrode everything she said to her boys, so much so that the boys stopped regarding anything she said. She certainly wasn’t a strong person either, but the other man gave her the strength to rebuild her life.

Eventually she made contact with her boys and started a relationship with them again. But she never took custody of them again, just saw them from time to time.

As I said, I’m probably way off-base, but this case has many similarities to my old friend.

That would be so very difficult for the children. I honestly think that a law needs to be made that no adult has the right to go missing UNLESS they notify their law enforcement...at least then we can have a bit more support from LE for those who are truly missing...as we have many areas of the country that families literally have to fight LE that their loved one did not just walk away and that they are truly missing.

 

[OffRoadRunner]

I went back and checked OffRoadRunner's posts and found this:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8738321#post8738321
Is this the one you were referring to? I read several pages around this post by I still don't see where it was stated that is was on the North side of the road.:waitasec: Maybe I'm just missing it somewhere......

I have it mapped out at the right intersection (Moon Hill Road and HW 23), and I see the Creek that runs NW to SE under HW 23 right next to this intersection.
OffRoadRunner, do you know if it was found on the North side of the road and I'm just missing where you stated this?? TIA

All I know is that the articles have said "Near" the intersection of Moon Hill and SR23.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

haven't heard any news locally.

hypothetically, i can see a woman leaving a dominant, overbearing narcissistic husband, out of desperation. but if she did, she would have had to plan it. i mean, if she were to do it "right."' like, save money over a long period of time, depositing it into an out of town bank and having any statements sent to a PO box created for that sole purpose, for example. and not telling *anyone*. i can't see her leaving willingly without any money (or her meds). and reports have said that her bank cards have not been used, which begs the still unanswered question of "where's her purse?"

what i can't see is a woman leaving her children willingly. if she did, i can't imagine her doing so in a sound mental/emotional state. but she could have. women have been known to do that. but statistics are against it.

the pleas of "please come back home jennifer" on jenniferramsaran.com, indicate that *some* family members (or really, hypothetically just one) believe she's out there, has internet access, and can read what's being posted. but the public has seen no indication or reports of this.

if there's any indication that she left willingly, then why such strong reactions by GR and the police (published in MSM) against public searches? and why no news conference to say "we think she left willingly?" seems like, as one other poster mentioned previously, that if our local communities have a monster out there somewhere, that LE is obligated to tell us, right?

this case spins in 4 different directions (her leaving willingly and being out there somewhere, safe and sound, a spouse having something to do with her disappearance, her meeting someone online and meeting foul play, or her going shopping and meeting foul play).

We have found that those who do "walk away" from their lives all have a few things in common... most leave with very little money (not well planned) and most all follow their cases online via a public library. This is the reason we want the family and friends to convey to the person that it is OK to come home. If you read my post on www.jr you will see that it is important to convey that it is ok to come home..that it is not illegal...that friends/family understand and there for them. Also..there are 5 possible scenarios. The 5th being suicide. (No I am not saying that may be the case for Jennifer, but in reality..it is a 5th theory to add to Jillian's 4)

 

[amberdawn723]

The only problem is that while it may seem to narrow some of the possibilities of how a phone is found...whether left or right because what if a cell is in a passengers pocket and they are trying to call 9-1-1 and the driver yanks it from them and rolls the passenger window down and throws it out that window because that is where the grassy part of road would be. Know what I mean? It wouldn't be so much which window it was thrown as much as it would help in determining the direction of travel. So the same could be said if the person was driving by them self and wanted to throw it out the window...they would use the passenger window otherwise their window would be the roadway....unless they are on a bridge of some sort and then if they threw it out the driver window it could spin and be carried and fall in a way that a direction could be hard to determine.

I agree, it won't really give us any definite idea....but I would love to know anyways so I can have something else to speculate on since there's nothing really new. :sigh: :waiting:

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

haven't heard any news locally.

hypothetically, i can see a woman leaving a dominant, overbearing narcissistic husband, out of desperation.

While I don't know the two together nor have I seen them interact...I can tell you from my conversations with GR...I do not see overbearing nor narcissistic personality traits in any way. I cannot comment on "dominant' because I think most husbands like to think they are but will say they are not..even if they are. While he may have a strong physique and extremely fit and active ...his demeanor and personality does not come across, in any way, as arrogant/narcissistic nor overbearing when talking with him. (as it pertains to conversations about Jennifer, his children, family, and the traumas accompanying a missing loved one)

 

[LivingJuicy]

We have found that those who do "walk away" from their lives all have a few things in common... most leave with very little money (not well planned) and most all follow their cases online via a public library. This is the reason we want the family and friends to convey to the person that it is OK to come home. If you read my post on www.jr you will see that it is important to convey that it is ok to come home..that it is not illegal...that friends/family understand and there for them. Also..there are 5 possible scenarios. The 5th being suicide. (No I am not saying that may be the case for Jennifer, but in reality..it is a 5th theory to add to Jillian's 4)

Lavanda,

Can you tell us the 4 scenarios?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda, can you tell us who had access to Jennifer's fb? I'm assuming yourself and her husband? I know people will usually share passwords but seems like there would be a privacy breach there?
Well done for organising the event and doing the video as well. You are certainly getting a lot done to get Jennifer's name and face out there.:applause::applause:

I am "friend-ed" on JR's (now private) FB page, however I do not have password nor access. There is no need for what I do in my work to have access anyhow. Nothing that we do would require me needing to go to her page through password access. Any private messages she may have had is available only to husband and law enforcement. Naturally as you know law enforcement has access to everything and GR is the only one that has the password access to her page.

 

[epiphany]

I went back and checked OffRoadRunner's posts and found this:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8738321#post8738321
Is this the one you were referring to? I read several pages around this post by I still don't see where it was stated that is was on the North side of the road.:waitasec: Maybe I'm just missing it somewhere......

I have it mapped out at the right intersection (Moon Hill Road and HW 23), and I see the Creek that runs NW to SE under HW 23 right next to this intersection.
OffRoadRunner, do you know if it was found on the North side of the road and I'm just missing where you stated this?? TIA

Respectfully bolded by me.

Jennifer's iPhone was discovered by her husband on the North side of Route 23/Moon Hill Road:

Snipped

The Chrysler Town & Country minivan Rasmaran was driving that day was found by police at the Plank Road Apartments in the city of Norwich. Her cellphone was located farther west alongside the north side of state Route 23 in Plymouth, near Moon Hill Road.

http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x983997640/Investigators-interview-missing-womans-children

Snipped

Her cell phone, which her husband, Ganesh Remy Ramsaran, said he found utilizing the Find iPhone application, was discovered on Dec. 12, while her minivan was located days later on Dec. 16.

http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2013-01-04/16576/New-details-emerge-in-case-of-missing-woman/

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Thank you for this- and very true. To clarify though, I didn't mean to imply that the husband had to be involved- I meant I find the idea of, as you mention, a neighbour or other local creep more believable, in an abduction narrative, than an online connection- that's completely just my opinion though and I am by no means an expert.

FBI has put together data a number of years back and I wish they would update it and/or require that all those working with missing submit their own findings/statistics so that accurate up to date data can be presented. We collect our own data as I feel it is important to those that support my organization to have full knowledge of what we do with donations and what are the outcomes of the work we do. It's also a way for us to measure our own success rates and where we may need to apply more focus or attention to having those numbers (statistics) improved. Unfortunately I wish I would have started this in 2009 as it would give me a better picture. But when I measure that in 2011 we had 151 with only 7 cases resolved....and then I see 2012 statistics and how we had 117 NEW registered cases and out of those 74 resolved...well, that says we are doing something right with our programs developed in 2012.

According the previous statistics from the FBI, actual kidnappings and abductions are in the very rare numbers field. I see many groups who make claims that they've located hundreds of missing over the years or located hundreds of bodies and yet when a google search is done, or they are asked to name them...the numbers are more like in the two digit figures as opposed to the 4 digit amounts claimed.

The real staggering point of reality is the sadness of knowing there will never be a year...ever...that all missing are found...and if you take the statistics from our group and see the numbers that carry over each year...and if all groups did the same as I (carry statistics)...it would go to show just how many missing are carried over each year, unsolved, and adding up with the next years unsolved. Building and building each year (While those are the numbers of the persons missing...think of each person and their immediate family with an average of 8 immediate relatives of each who are suffering terribly.) Yes..it is an "epidemic neglected' in my opinion.

The public does not realize just how many loved ones go missing. Another example...in 2012 ....2 of my own staff members had loved ones go missing. One of my Board of Directors' son who has autism spectrum disorders went missing for 3 days...and another of my Board Members had a very close childhood friend go missing and he was located 2 days ago and found to have committed suicide

I think you've noted that I do not give short answers.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

amberdawn723 thanks for this, and your earlier post on the topic- I agree it would be interesting to know. I've looked at the map of where the car was and where the phone was a bunch and it leaves so many options.

With throwing the phone from the passengers side... Could a local tell us how wide that road is? I've never thrown a phone out a window but I've thrown apple cores (heh) and always found it surprisingly difficult to hit the opposite berm from the passengers side- particularly if the car was moving at any kind of speed. I guess someone with better physics (FAR better physics) than me, could probably give us an equation about weight of an object, speed a vehicle was travelling and power required to cover a certain horizontal distance- which at this point I almost feel would be helpful, which probably shows I think about this case waaaay too much.

You brought back a memory of once when my daughter (at the time about 13 yrs old) and I was driving down the road she pulled out her cd flip case and out fell a cd that was a rap cd , that had a lot of vulgar language, and I immediately rolled down her window and out it went! I will never forget the look on her face! No words were ever exchanged either. I just picked it up (while driving) rolled down her window (while driving) and out it went like a Frisbee.

 

[SyraKelly]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up-but I wonder why Jennifer did not choose to go to Shoppingtown mall instead of Density.Shoppingtown mall(58 mils) is way closer to her house vs Density(83 mls).she also would have been close to a kohls,target walmart and a k-mart,also lots & lots of places to eat in the same area!
I know Density has been in the process of adding a lot of new stores,but it has not changed that must,at least not to me...just thinking out loud here!!
I also would like to add-that I worked at the JCPs at Density-we usually stayed open until 11pm around the holidays-sorry-Also she could have gotton off the Dewitt exit and Shoppingtown mall is right there

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Note: The usual (and about 20 miles shorter than going all the way to Cortland and up I81) route to Syracuse from Norwich is SR23, to CR16, to SR26 north/SR80 to Georgetown, then SR80 to SR13 to Cazenovia. Where her phone was found was 1/4 mile past the CR16 turn off towards Syracuse.

So, either she goes the LONG way to Syracuse, or she missed her turn, or she tossed the phone and was headed elsewhere, or the phone was a plant!

What I do know is GR and JR always take that route to Syracuse as there is a Friendly's they loved to eat at and the alternative route has too many winding roads.

 

[amberdawn723]

Respectfully bolded by me.

Jennifer's iPhone was discovered by her husband on the North side of Route 23/Moon Hill Road:

Snipped

The Chrysler Town & Country minivan Rasmaran was driving that day was found by police at the Plank Road Apartments in the city of Norwich. Her cellphone was located farther west alongside the north side of state Route 23 in Plymouth, near Moon Hill Road.

http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x983997640/Investigators-interview-missing-womans-children

Thanks!!! I adjusted the map slightly to reflect this. Makes me think that the phone (if tossed from a moving vehicle) was probably tossed through the passenger side window while the car drove West (away from Norwich).

Hypothetically thinking out loud here......

Perhaps if JR did meet foul play, the perp tossed the phone on the way out of town to dispose of her body so his/her movements couldn't be tracked.

The van could have become muddy somewhere out West of Norwich wherever the body was dumped and then the van may have been driven back to town to the apartments so it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb wherever the body was....also it would allow one to walk back into town to catch a ride from someone or a cab, or walk to the perp's home (assuming he/she lives locally). JMO as always

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

i dunno about this...
pretty big search party was formed in less than 3 days, and that included someone securing a firehouse for volunteers' use, someone else securing donated snow shoes, and food, drinks, etc.

three weeks is a very long time.

remember, GR publicly stated that he had given up hope, a week or so into Jennifer's disappearance. did something change his mind?

I'd like to think my organization changed his mind. We offer hope. It's vitally important for families to have hope. We connect them to other families in similar situations whose cases are resolved to further offer hope. I'm a firm believer in no matter how grim it may look...until solid evidence suggests otherwise...there is always hope. Families need to be strong emotionally and to know they have support. So many fears exist about their missing loved one but also fears of media, news, being on camera...etc. We are there to consult, educate and walk them through all processes so that all can be accomplished that is needed to find their missing loved one. If a family member feels terrifying fear of being on camera...one of our staff will be seated right next to them. I had one mom last year (whose son is still missing in ME) who was absolutely petrified of the news media...almost to the point of extreme anxiety...We walked her through it, we introduced her to the media crew and we set the scene so that she wouldn't feel like she was being "taped" and when it was televised...I have to tell you, she was brilliant! Very well composed and her voice clear...no shaking...just brilliant! Anyone watching that would never have known that it took us nearly a month to work with her to get to that point!

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

~ snipped for space.

Lavanda ~ why not use the electronic billboard on I-88 between exits 15 and 14 (headed west toward JR's home)? It is MUCH closer than Syracuse. Using both certainly makes sense, but prioritizing securing the one closer to home makes more sense.

Just a thought.

Jillian, what is the company name on the billboard? I can tell you we have contact lists for nearly every billboard (electronic and otherwise) and it is extremely difficult to find one that will do one for missing adults For children they are more apt...but for adults...we do a lot of "begging." Their rules are "strict" too. For example Maine doesn't even have billboards.It's a law. No billboards on highway. When our baby Ayla went missing..we ended up having them put up in Boston, NY , Philly and NJ. NH has yet to ever give us a billboard (or anyone for that matter) So we do the next creative thing. We have a huge heavy outdoor vinyl building mural done and we search for a company that has a lot of high traffic (also we have to check the zoning laws) and we have it mounted there. I will give your location idea to my Asst. as she is working directly with the woman from CBSOutdoors right now. But do please find out the company on that billboard. We will do all possible to try, absolutely.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I think that I'll just start here as I missed a few pages yesterday..

I've just read over on the missing JR FB and yes, agreed, quite a few comments begging and pleading for her to come.

Except, the majority don't know Jen and the few that were closest to her still make me uncomfortable.

Example: GR saying 'I truly believe JR never knew how much she was loved by everyone." Or something to that effect.. love-d?
I know past tenses don't always mean anything and by far, I'm not trying to be a linguistic person here but since he publicly gave up hope a week in, and said she would never leave on her own, I'm curious where this new idea of her abandoning her life came from?

Sort of seems IMO IMO that this is the new hop on the bandwagon of theories that probably started harmlessly enough with missing campaigns getting involved.

In honor of this being a victim friendly site, I'll just leave it at this.

IMO, Jennifer did not just run away from her life. I still can't even believe it at .10 percent. But it's just my opinion.

Until solid evidence suggests otherwise....one must always have hope.

 

[The Cheese]

Until solid evidence suggests otherwise....one must always have hope.

God bless you, Lavanda. Thank you for all the work you and your organization do for missing persons and their families.

 

[Jilllian]

I went back and checked OffRoadRunner's posts and found this:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8738321#post8738321
Is this the one you were referring to? I read several pages around this post by I still don't see where it was stated that is was on the North side of the road.:waitasec: Maybe I'm just missing it somewhere......

I have it mapped out at the right intersection (Moon Hill Road and HW 23), and I see the Creek that runs NW to SE under HW 23 right next to this intersection.
OffRoadRunner, do you know if it was found on the North side of the road and I'm just missing where you stated this?? TIA

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=13150.0

"The Chrysler Town & Country minivan Rasmaran was driving that day was found by police at the Plank Road Apartments in the city of Norwich. Her cellphone was located farther west alongside the north side of state Route 23 in Plymouth, near Moon Hill Road."

From previous maps, it looks like it was found on the road above the creek.

 

[Jilllian]

I still think searching is important!! That is, if she is out there. Our VERY cold weather and snow on the ground makes that very hard. It is going to be back up in the 40s and 50s this week, so what little snow we have should melt and help with that.

I am thinking of going over to see the owner of a piece of property and searching the back side of his property, specifically on the "DEAD END" road, not far from Jennifer's home. People have stressed it's ok to only search "PUBLIC" land... but why not get owner's permission for "Private" land. That stressing of "Public" land being ok has bothered me since it was stated. If she's on "Private" property yet only "Public" land is searched, she'll never be found if she is out there.

The "Dead End" road looks like it goes all the way over to Button Hallow but in reality, it dead ends at an old farmstead that now only has a farm machinery bldg used my Mr. Bida. My other thought is to go over and search the Miller Road, off the W. Brook Road - this is a well known "Party" spot, that goes up, dead ends, and borders state land. It is not far from where the Dead End road would intersect w/ W.Brook Road.

My ideas on areas needing to be searched:

- Plymouth / Pharsalia area of Finger Lakes Trail
- Jackson Pond in the Pharsalia State Land, on John Smith Road
- Round Pond, above the intersection of Resevoir Hill Road and Chan Aldrich Road in Plymouth
- Ravine on Moon Hill Road, Plymouth
- Dead End Road, New Berlin
- Miller Road, New Berlin

I know they don't want searches (or so some people would like us to believe) - but I still just don't get that. Perhaps a Press Conference by our local LE agency would maybe occur sooner rather than later... to help us all understand what is going on. (as people keep saying that there is more to all this than people know)

Thought - If she's out there, she's not going to be far off the beaten path, if she did weigh close to 190lbs - I don't care how strong or in-shape someone is, carrying that amount of weight would be tough to go very far alone.

I think so too!

 

[amberdawn723]

Updated the map to show the two different routes to Syracuse that could have been driven (or intended to have been driven) by Jennifer.