Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[Lavanda Dolce]

Well with friends like that..

However; seems that there could be some truth to them and IMO, if JR is alive and well, she does have a real good reason not to go home.

Obviously other than her babies.

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The family, in my opinion, is stuck in a state of despair. ("family" meaning Jenn's parents)...that is very concerning...and from what I see the parents are just too distraught and stuck in the middle between the bond they have with their son in law and the rumors running around that it is causing great grief to them. Imagine being a mother and father and having to hear all this on top of your child missing?

So in essence....Jenn DOES have a reason to go home other than her children and husband...she has parents who are beside themselves with fear and worry. Somewhere in this I hope "the other group" will follow suit because if Jenn is alive and well and is reading...there is a huge component missing...her family. Her family needs to be doing the same. They need to "talk with her" and let her know that whatever she may be going through...they are there to support her 100%...and from what I've learned of the family dynamics...they ARE there to support her 100%. We just have to hope and pray she is alive and out there somewhere...is reading...and will call.

 

[Jilllian]

Jillian, what is the company name on the billboard? I can tell you we have contact lists for nearly every billboard (electronic and otherwise) and it is extremely difficult to find one that will do one for missing adults For children they are more apt...but for adults...we do a lot of "begging." Their rules are "strict" too. For example Maine doesn't even have billboards.It's a law. No billboards on highway. When our baby Ayla went missing..we ended up having them put up in Boston, NY , Philly and NJ. NH has yet to ever give us a billboard (or anyone for that matter) So we do the next creative thing. We have a huge heavy outdoor vinyl building mural done and we search for a company that has a lot of high traffic (also we have to check the zoning laws) and we have it mounted there. I will give your location idea to my Asst. as she is working directly with the woman from CBSOutdoors right now. But do please find out the company on that billboard. We will do all possible to try, absolutely.

This electronic billboard featured a picture of Annie Hubbard, an older woman who went missing this past summer. I will PM you contact information.

Also, since this area is so rural, people can ask farmers if they can use their land for billboard purposes, either for free or for a fee. I've seen this done a few times...

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Yes. Speaking of a loved one in the past tense weirded me out, especially given the the fact that he has publicly stated that he's "given up hope" of JR being found alive, just a week into her disappearance.

"never knew how much she WAS loved." Not "IS loved".

You cannot take that from the context of the purpose of the post and the meaning behind it.

In the context he presented it ...he was saying it in a past tense...not about the PERSON but about the situational timeline.

In other words....had you known how much you were loved (at the time you up and left) you would never have left.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda,

I don't know if GR was controlling or didn't allow JR to work or if there were marital issues.

What I do know that is if there were issues of abuse or marital problems, it is possible that no one would know. Even the children.

Lots of abuse is MENTAL and EMOTIONAL and can be done in ways even non verbal. Holding out affection, shutting down and ignoring, turning to the computer versus spending time together, denying sex and maybe cheating.

Those are minor examples. No one would really know. A mom can still cook, clean, sew and smile and inside be dying and desperate, knowing her marriage is over. Clinging to hope that it can work, at least for the kids sake.

Neighbors, family or not, wouldn't know anything.

I don't think GR had a history of beating up JR at all.

If there was abuse it wasn't physical, IMO.

I remind myself, I'd rather take a punch anyday than to be mentally abused.

I disagree. So sorry One cannot have a very sad and troubled marriage and the children not have a clue. Those kids live in that house. They know. This is why it is so important that women who are living in abusive situation (or men) that if they think they are staying with the other person "for the sake of the children" they are truly doing the kids a disservice. Kids feel content and happy when they see their parents are content and happy. If a mother is dying inside...trust me, the kids would know.

 

[PennyFlower]

If Jennifer is alive and well and has been reading along here.....why would she even WANT to come home or make contact after all the accusations and negativity about her home life that have been thrown around this thread? All it does for her is validate her reason for leaving (if she left) in the first place!

Lavonda - you're a very special person. Thank you for joining us here.

 

[PennyFlower]

Did the youngest of the children go to Kindergarten this fall? Could it be that Jennifer was realizing she didn't know who she was anymore.... semi "empty nest"..kinda sorta? Having had a life that always revolved around drop off and pick ups, feedings and nap times to suddenly having time to think about herself? Just a thought.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

You're absolutely right. Absolutely! And there is the other thing - the abusers do not want to look like a bad people and the abused very often are ashamed of being the victims, so both sides keep the facade of a happy relationship, even for these nearest and dearest. But behind that facade is a living hell. So yes, even the parents living the next door can not be aware of the abuse going on.

I've yet to know someone who does mental abuse quietly? Those who do mentally abuse their partners are almost always known to belittle their partner in front of others. Rarely does that go unnoticed. Then we go to physical abuse. Kind of hard to physically abuse someone quietly? While people may invariably say "oh they seemed like such a happy couple" in the news...after a crime is committed, it's because those people didn't have intimate knowledge of the couple next door. And I totally disagree that children can reside in the home, one being a teenager, and never recognizing abuse happening to one or either of their parents. They know.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I still think searching is important!! That is, if she is out there. Our VERY cold weather and snow on the ground makes that very hard. It is going to be back up in the 40s and 50s this week, so what little snow we have should melt and help with that.

I am thinking of going over to see the owner of a piece of property and searching the back side of his property, specifically on the "DEAD END" road, not far from Jennifer's home. People have stressed it's ok to only search "PUBLIC" land... but why not get owner's permission for "Private" land. That stressing of "Public" land being ok has bothered me since it was stated. If she's on "Private" property yet only "Public" land is searched, she'll never be found if she is out there.

The "Dead End" road looks like it goes all the way over to Button Hallow but in reality, it dead ends at an old farmstead that now only has a farm machinery bldg used my Mr. Bida. My other thought is to go over and search the Miller Road, off the W. Brook Road - this is a well known "Party" spot, that goes up, dead ends, and borders state land. It is not far from where the Dead End road would intersect w/ W.Brook Road.

My ideas on areas needing to be searched:

- Plymouth / Pharsalia area of Finger Lakes Trail
- Jackson Pond in the Pharsalia State Land, on John Smith Road
- Round Pond, above the intersection of Resevoir Hill Road and Chan Aldrich Road in Plymouth
- Ravine on Moon Hill Road, Plymouth
- Dead End Road, New Berlin
- Miller Road, New Berlin

I know they don't want searches (or so some people would like us to believe) - but I still just don't get that. Perhaps a Press Conference by our local LE agency would maybe occur sooner rather than later... to help us all understand what is going on. (as people keep saying that there is more to all this than people know)

Thought - If she's out there, she's not going to be far off the beaten path, if she did weigh close to 190lbs - I don't care how strong or in-shape someone is, carrying that amount of weight would be tough to go very far alone.

Just to rule out any kind of foul play or self inflicted play, I would like to see law enforcement to organize an aerial search. It's pretty costly but sometimes well worth it. I also have to say...I know if someone was reported missing in my town...and for this amount of time...I would certainly have checked my own property...just because. I would have been looking at the sky for buzzards and birds swarming to certain areas too. Remember, when a missing person is missing...while hope is the primary focus...one must also explore all possibilities and that does include the person is no longer with us. All avenues need explored.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I am a little surprise this event is only for 1 hr-but I will attend if DH does not have to work that weekend!

Excellent. Thank you. If you can bring a friend. The more people who attend the more posters we can get out and I love that you are actually in Syracuse. We want all surrounding areas covered. Thank you!

 

[Jilllian]

Thanks!!! I adjusted the map slightly to reflect this. Makes me think that the phone (if tossed from a moving vehicle) was probably tossed through the passenger side window while the car drove West (away from Norwich).

Hypothetically thinking out loud here......

Perhaps if JR did meet foul play, the perp tossed the phone on the way out of town to dispose of her body so his/her movements couldn't be tracked.

The van could have become muddy somewhere out West of Norwich wherever the body was dumped and then the van may have been driven back to town to the apartments so it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb wherever the body was....also it would allow one to walk back into town to catch a ride from someone or a cab, or walk to the perp's home (assuming he/she lives locally). JMO as always

Hypothetically speaking too: The phone could have been thrown out of the driver's side window while headed into Norwich on Rte 23, which is where her car was found days later on the same road. Ditch the phone first, and then five miles later, ditch the car. There are lots of gravely/muddy roads from New Berlin to Plymouth (where phone was found).

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda,

Can you tell us the 4 scenarios?

In that post, Jillian put 4 scenario's together. I mentioned there would be "5" as she left one off. Technically there are 6 "possible" scenarios that I have outlined as possibilities: (human trafficking, gang initiation killing and witness protection program I've eliminated due to her lifestyle and living areas doesn't fit having knowledge or history of anything that would make those a possible means.)

1. Harmed by a stranger enroute to shopping mall
2. Harmed by husband, or someone who knew her intimately
3. Met someone online who harmed her
4. Met someone online who she ran away with
5. Ran off and away from her own life and is by herself somewhere
6. Suicide

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up-but I wonder why Jennifer did not choose to go to Shoppingtown mall instead of Density.Shoppingtown mall(58 mils) is way closer to her house vs Density(83 mls).she also would have been close to a kohls,target walmart and a k-mart,also lots & lots of places to eat in the same area!
I know Density has been in the process of adding a lot of new stores,but it has not changed that must,at least not to me...just thinking out loud here!!
I also would like to add-that I worked at the JCPs at Density-we usually stayed open until 11pm around the holidays-sorry-Also she could have gotton off the Dewitt exit and Shoppingtown mall is right there

I don't have my file with me as it is in my car as I traveled most of the week and now my husband is having the oil changed...but there was a reason (store or gift, if I recall) that Destiny USA was the choice destination. I will find out. Since it was already public knowledge of the intended location, it should not be a problem to tell you why.

 

[pinkshoemama]

I pray that will not be the case. That she had some inner need to just go away for awhile. However, I do want to point out that not long ago a missing young wife, left for work and never arrived. The husband was "beat up" in some of the media Fact is, (Not sure if I am allowed to say this?) A somewhat well known blogger who talks about body language and lies and eyes wrote an indepth piece on Whitney's husband clear to her comments of him not out hanging posters or looking for his wife, etc etc and came away with her "professional" opinion that he will invariably be charged with her murder. Well, it ended up a neighbor stalked her and took her life Just another very good example that one really shouldn't form a solid opinion on how someone acts/reacts or what one thinks the expected demeanor of a spouse/mate/partner should be. That young lady who was killed was Whitney Heichel.

Public opinion can be a harsh opinion. But from these opinions, when there are little facts to play off of, i believe this is where assumption &/or stereo-typing come into play. and of course not all instances of stereo typing fall true, but there are reasons it does have its name.

my point? why hasn't foul play hasn't been ruled out by the PD? I have also been following the Victoria Moon case & the HPD has ruled out (i guess at least for the time being) that there is no indication of foul play. so why IF JR did have a "break" of some kind or even a simple "get me out of here" moment, why are we expected to blame JR? or do we blame the PD? or if we react to how certain characters are playing out, if just simply on social media, sometimes very loudly, for all to see, why is it a "bad" thing when we are scratching our heads & thinking.... hmm i've seen this kind of behavior before (and that thought or red-flag of behavior may not always be forgiving).....?

i want to know why if the CSD (or is it CPD?) hasn't said simply that foul play isn't the case at this time, then why the need to worry about the when & where's of searching? why not welcome it? is it welcome or is it not? only on private property that i own type thing, but not on public land? are we just kind of expected to turn our shoulders & walk away because we are asking to be informed to some pretty basic information (imho) & asking in hopes of being able to help out? but then, how do we help when our eyes may read one thing, but our gut may feel another? who do we actually help? do i send money to her children? to a JR fund of some kind set up for her return & help in helping her get well? because at this time my gut tells me those kids & JR too actually, are the main players who need my help since i can't actually go searching, but then wouldn't law enforcement or others are possibly discouraging me if i wanted to jump on a plane & come find her, or knock on doors & ask questions.........?

where's the icon to hit my head on the wall? ahhh :banghead::banghead:

Lavanda, i appreciate & understand that you have a job to do & i send a thousand internet hugs your way because it is admirable. but also being on this sweet little foreum here, as a verified insider, i would imagine you are able to put your mind into detective mode & help us clear away the smog or clouds that seem to be trying to SIT all over this case. speaking of smog... i don't know what's worse, the smog in the city i live or my pregnant head! (o/t of course).

 

[imamaze]

Unless we have something from LE and or main stream media that talk about abuse, physical, mental, whether the children knew etc. is off limits. If you have a link to show then please do so, if not the talk about it stops until you can show it to be the case.

We can speculate, with what we know, just out and out rumors are not allowed.

Ima

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up-but I wonder why Jennifer did not choose to go to Shoppingtown mall instead of Density.Shoppingtown mall(58 mils) is way closer to her house vs Density(83 mls).she also would have been close to a kohls,target walmart and a k-mart,also lots & lots of places to eat in the same area!
I know Density has been in the process of adding a lot of new stores,but it has not changed that must,at least not to me...just thinking out loud here!!
I also would like to add-that I worked at the JCPs at Density-we usually stayed open until 11pm around the holidays-sorry-Also she could have gotton off the Dewitt exit and Shoppingtown mall is right there

She was looking for a gift and dress and already had been shopping at other places earlier in the month. She felt she would have a better selection since couldn't find elsewhere.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

God bless you, Lavanda. Thank you for all the work you and your organization do for missing persons and their families.

Thank you. That was very kind.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Did the youngest of the children go to Kindergarten this fall? Could it be that Jennifer was realizing she didn't know who she was anymore.... semi "empty nest"..kinda sorta? Having had a life that always revolved around drop off and pick ups, feedings and nap times to suddenly having time to think about herself? Just a thought.

Anything is possible.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Public opinion can be a harsh opinion. But from these opinions, when there are little facts to play off of, i believe this is where assumption &/or stereo-typing come into play. and of course not all instances of stereo typing fall true, but there are reasons it does have its name.

my point? why hasn't foul play hasn't been ruled out by the PD? I have also been following the Victoria Moon case & the HPD has ruled out (i guess at least for the time being) that there is no indication of foul play. so why IF JR did have a "break" of some kind or even a simple "get me out of here" moment, why are we expected to blame JR? or do we blame the PD? or if we react to how certain characters are playing out, if just simply on social media, sometimes very loudly, for all to see, why is it a "bad" thing when we are scratching our heads & thinking.... hmm i've seen this kind of behavior before (and that thought or red-flag of behavior may not always be forgiving).....?

i want to know why if the CSD (or is it CPD?) hasn't said simply that foul play isn't the case at this time, then why the need to worry about the when & where's of searching? why not welcome it? is it welcome or is it not? only on private property that i own type thing, but not on public land? are we just kind of expected to turn our shoulders & walk away because we are asking to be informed to some pretty basic information (imho) & asking in hopes of being able to help out? but then, how do we help when our eyes may read one thing, but our gut may feel another? who do we actually help? do i send money to her children? to a JR fund of some kind set up for her return & help in helping her get well? because at this time my gut tells me those kids & JR too actually, are the main players who need my help since i can't actually go searching, but then wouldn't law enforcement or others are possibly discouraging me if i wanted to jump on a plane & come find her, or knock on doors & ask questions.........?

where's the icon to hit my head on the wall? ahhh :banghead::banghead:

Lavanda, i appreciate & understand that you have a job to do & i send a thousand internet hugs your way because it is admirable. but also being on this sweet little foreum here, as a verified insider, i would imagine you are able to put your mind into detective mode & help us clear away the smog or clouds that seem to be trying to SIT all over this case. speaking of smog... i don't know what's worse, the smog in the city i live or my pregnant head! (o/t of course).

I love SLC!! Sorry about the smog. Hope it goes away!
As I said from the onset...I quit "guessing" as I've seen cases go either way in which it did not appear it was headed. People need to continually do all possible to get Jennifer's photo out as someone may make recognition and can come forward with whatever they know that may help...insignificant things sometimes are huge breaks.

 

[LivingJuicy]

My real concern right now is that two separate "campaigns" (as you call them) are transpiring. I wanted all to work together towards the same goal. Doesn't matter which "side" one is on. Fact is..."sides" have only been made by one specific person. In GR's eyes there are no sides. He has open dialogue every day with Jenn's parents..they live right next door. The kids go back and forth. I spoke with Jenn's father...he is grieving just as any parent would be.

The family, in my opinion, is stuck in a state of despair. ("family" meaning Jenn's parents)...that is very concerning...and from what I see the parents are just too distraught and stuck in the middle between the bond they have with their son in law and the rumors running around that it is causing great grief to them. Imagine being a mother and father and having to hear all this on top of your child missing?

So in essence....Jenn DOES have a reason to go home other than her children and husband...she has parents who are beside themselves with fear and worry. Somewhere in this I hope "the other group" will follow suit because if Jenn is alive and well and is reading...there is a huge component missing...her family. Her family needs to be doing the same. They need to "talk with her" and let her know that whatever she may be going through...they are there to support her 100%...and from what I've learned of the family dynamics...they ARE there to support her 100%. We just have to hope and pray she is alive and out there somewhere...is reading...and will call.

Yes, clearly I would want her to return for the sake of her family as well. I was referring to "home" as in her physical address. Her parents don't live next door full time. Honestly, I can see the family being confused, concerned, & stuck in the middle but what we are sleuthing or speculating on is only things that have been brought into light by Jennifer's husband and his friends.

We can't discuss rumors here but the point I was trying to make is that if one was going through marital problems and learned of a possible affair involving one's best friend, I could see the reluctance to return home. Shame, embarrassment, anger, frustration, despair, disappointment, etc.

I'm curious though..

I don't mean this with any disrespect as I do believe we are all here for the main common goal, which is bringing Jennifer home.

However; from my understanding there is a divide in the family and even some that may wonder about this being a non stranger abduction - with that said, when I read your posts, it almost feels as if the whole family is backing GR and to my understanding, that's not the case.

And I don't think it's fair to say it's due to the 2 "separate" campaigns. It almost makes it feel like one is right and one is wrong which is the whole vibe that the Missing JR FB feels like.. know what I mean?

I'm on one team - team Jennifer. If she didn't leave on her own, whomever is responsible for her missing will get what they are due.

 

[krey]

That would be so very difficult for the children. I honestly think that a law needs to be made that no adult has the right to go missing UNLESS they notify their law enforcement...at least then we can have a bit more support from LE for those who are truly missing...as we have many areas of the country that families literally have to fight LE that their loved one did not just walk away and that they are truly missing.

YES!!!!! I 100% agree with you here! We all know that "up and leaving" isn't a crime, but it really should be (without, as you suggest, informing LE). Resources are spent looking for missing persons, and anyone wanting to run off and leave life behind would know that people are going to be looking for them. Not to mention, people who have kids and run off - isn't this basically child abandonment?
:twocents: