Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[PennyFlower]

From a quick google search, I found this interesting link about this topic:

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/missing-persons/suicide

That same site states that "families of missing persons are often contacted by psychics and clairvoyants...."

Last bullet point on this page: http://www.police.govt.nz/service/missing-persons/behalf-missing-person

 

[LivingJuicy]

I hope that JR is alive...

That's all I want.


Nothing adds up though. :-( IMO

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

YES!!!!! I 100% agree with you here! We all know that "up and leaving" isn't a crime, but it really should be (without, as you suggest, informing LE). Resources are spent looking for missing persons, and anyone wanting to run off and leave life behind would know that people are going to be looking for them. Not to mention, people who have kids and run off - isn't this basically child abandonment?
:twocents:

Those that we've had go missing and located safely...all had emotional inner turmoils and nearly all felt that everyone was better off without them So to me that is a bit different than someone who just up and left their children for selfish reasons.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I hear what you're saying but I completely disagree and I've experienced it. How many times have you heard from people that were abused that no one suspected anything. In fact, often the abuser is someone with power, highly respected, etc.

It does happen. As far as the kids go, it's one thing to think your parents are arguing but as a young child, your first thought wouldn't be that one is going to leave or one is going to make one go missing.

Their concern would be wanting their parents to stay together, bottom line.

Just my opinion..

We were talking about children living in a house and the abuse (mental or physical) of a married couple goes unnoticed from the children.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I could see LE not wanting people to search if they do not believe she is a crime victim. They do not want people getting injured, lost, trespassing, etc.

But in other missing persons cases, LE often asks the public to search their own properties, sheds, outbuildings, etc. Have they done this?

Most all police departments will not allow a search by any groups of people in a community. It needs to be done and coordinated by professionals who are skilled in search and recovery. Rarely do I see a case in which any police department asks the public to check their own properties. I especially cringe when I see young children that go missing and it is not asked by the community Sometimes PD feel they have it "all covered on their own." I am in full agreement of no ground searches conducted by teams of community members....UNLESS they are asked to ASSIST a trained SAR Team and a lesson is given to the volunteers prior. God forbid but if 12 people stomped on grounds that evidence could be and one finally notices.....the family of missing will move out of a "I want my loved one home" into a mode of "I want justice" (if a death by crime) and the worst would be that a killer go free as evidence will not get accepted due to contamination or improper handling. Yes for one to search their own....no for groups to go out............with that said....I am talking specifically about looking for a body. I am not talking about a 8 year old autistic child that wanders off. Then call out all the teams of any and all persons who can walk and see.

 

[krey]

Most all police departments will not allow a search by any groups of people in a community. It needs to be done and coordinated by professionals who are skilled in search and recovery. Rarely do I see a case in which any police department asks the public to check their own properties. I especially cringe when I see young children that go missing and it is not asked by the community Sometimes PD feel they have it "all covered on their own." I am in full agreement of no ground searches conducted by teams of community members....UNLESS they are asked to ASSIST a trained SAR Team and a lesson is given to the volunteers prior. God forbid but if 12 people stomped on grounds that evidence could be and one finally notices.....the family of missing will move out of a "I want my loved one home" into a mode of "I want justice" (if a death by crime) and the worst would be that a killer go free as evidence will not get accepted due to contamination or improper handling. Yes for one to search their own....no for groups to go out............with that said....I am talking specifically about looking for a body. I am not talking about a 8 year old autistic child that wanders off. Then call out all the teams of any and all persons who can walk and see.

I guess it's a catch-22. What if she's out there and no one EVER finds her because LE wouldn't allow community members to search? Isn't it better for her to be found, even with the potential risk of disturbing evidence?

In Jennifer's case, does LE think there's evidence out there to be disturbed? Or do they think she left on her own (and therefore, no evidence of a crime anywhere)?

 

[cluciano63]

I guess it's a catch-22. What if she's out there and no one EVER finds her because LE wouldn't allow community members to search? Isn't it better for her to be found, even with the potential risk of disturbing evidence?

In Jennifer's case, does LE think there's evidence out there to be disturbed? Or do they think she left on her own (and therefore, no evidence of a crime anywhere)?

That has been my point. LE uses the word "evidence" which makes it sound like they have reason to believe that something could be out there and that she did not simply leave town. Otherwise, what could be their worry? And yet if something is out there, it won't be found all by itself.

 

[fringles]

:floorlaugh: lol

I love when people can admit that they're a bit obsessed with something! (and I mean this in the most positive of ways, because hey, we're ALL obsessed with this one)

Ha, thanks Krey! For all my obsession though, I only *just* remembered that my idea of 'drivers side window' and the american one is opposite- had to change my whole mental image around!

 

[fringles]

Agreed. Better late than never.

I think I'm getting bitter.

It seems that all developments and moves in terms of finding JR or what's been happening on social media, all seem to stem from what's being discussed her.

IN a way, that's a great thing. Let's bring JR home.

But in a way, I feel like it's a game of chess sometimes. I just don't know how genuine everything really is

Does that make sense to anyone?

Yes! A lot of sense and I agree with you completely.

 

[fringles]

The only problem is that while it may seem to narrow some of the possibilities of how a phone is found...whether left or right because what if a cell is in a passengers pocket and they are trying to call 9-1-1 and the driver yanks it from them and rolls the passenger window down and throws it out that window because that is where the grassy part of road would be. Know what I mean? It wouldn't be so much which window it was thrown as much as it would help in determining the direction of travel. So the same could be said if the person was driving by them self and wanted to throw it out the window...they would use the passenger window otherwise their window would be the roadway....unless they are on a bridge of some sort and then if they threw it out the driver window it could spin and be carried and fall in a way that a direction could be hard to determine.

Thing is, I don't know that anyone throwing an iPhone out of a moving car is going to be aiming for the grassy side of the road- namely because if you doing that, surely you're not thinking about the iPhones safety. In fact, I'd have thought that if you're disposing of it, you'd want to throw it on the road side to decrease the chances of it being found in working.

Obviously I'm not saying they couldn't have thrown it to that side, just that I don't think they necessarily would.

Was there snow on the ground that day? It would be great to know what the ground was like where the phone was found (I know we've said this before, but nothing like beating a dead horse, huh) because I imagine there could've been some kind of skid/movement mark that would help determine which direction the phone landed from. Was it ever said in MSM that GR photographed the location of the phone or was that just a rumour? I hope he did.

 

[Bluecosmo]

About 8 years ago my friend was thinking of leaving her husband. She was a stay at home mom of 2 boys. She had me open a savings account for her and when she would pay with her debit card at Target ect she would take extra cash out that she would in turn give to me to put in her account. So IMO if JR left on her own accords knowing she was not coming back, she possibly could have had a secret bank account. If that is not the case then I feel the only other options IMO are that A. She left to harm herself or B. She left not knowing she would not be back.
I also live not far from where the 2 Iowa girls went missing this summer and law enforcement asked people to search their land and I know several people that went and helped with the searches. This whole search thing has me in a tizzy. I want to say so many things about it but it would be against the rules I am sure.

 

[fringles]

About 8 years ago my friend was thinking of leaving her husband. She was a stay at home mom of 2 boys. She had me open a savings account for her and when she would pay with her debit card at Target ect she would take extra cash out that she would in turn give to me to put in her account. So IMO if JR left on her own accords knowing she was not coming back, she possibly could have had a secret bank account. If that is not the case then I feel the only other options IMO are that A. She left to harm herself or B. She left not knowing she would not be back.
I also live not far from where the 2 Iowa girls went missing this summer and law enforcement asked people to search their land and I know several people that went and helped with the searches. This whole search thing has me in a tizzy. I want to say so many things about it but it would be against the rules I am sure.

I did wonder about this, and I've heard that quite a few SAHMs do it - not even necessarily for 'escape' purposes - wasn't there a rumour at one point that she had been stashing money away?

If your friend had then disappeared, and police and the public were appealing for info, do you think you'd have gone to LE and let them know about the secret account?

 

[Clayton]

Where is Jennifer????? I don't think she just left. She told her husband she was going shopping in Syracuse. She took no clothes, she has had no contact with anyone, no money being spent, phone found by husband and car found by father. I don't think she harmed herself.....I think someone harmed her.

 

[Orgona]

I did wonder about this, and I've heard that quite a few SAHMs do it - not even necessarily for 'escape' purposes - wasn't there a rumour at one point that she had been stashing money away?

If your friend had then disappeared, and police and the public were appealing for info, do you think you'd have gone to LE and let them know about the secret account?

BBM
I was wondering the same.
Would you let her parents suffer and fear they daughter could be dead or would you have at list gone to them informing them of the situation?

 

[OffRoadRunner]

Where is Jennifer????? I don't think she just left. She told her husband she was going shopping in Syracuse. She took no clothes, she has had no contact with anyone, no money being spent, phone found by husband and car found by father. I don't think she harmed herself.....I think someone harmed her.

Totally agree with you Clayton - (tried PMing you, but your mailbox is full). Here's hoping the warm temps will melt the little snow we have on the ground this week to aid in more searching.

 

[LivingJuicy]

We were talking about children living in a house and the abuse (mental or physical) of a married couple goes unnoticed from the children.

We can agree to disagree and move on. :seeya:

 

[LivingJuicy]

Clayton & ORR,

I wanted to thank your posts but for some reason (I think security related as I'm at work,) it isn't working! So thanks..

I don't know who can answer this or provide any insight that can somehow convince me that JR left but I'll take what I can get. Lavanda, maybe you can help better as you're verified and seem to have the experience with people that chose to walk away.

Typically when they do leave, where do they go, where do they stay? Without a traceable banking account, credit cards, etc. How do they eat? Do they go to shelters?

Also, is it the norm that they stage their disappearance to appear that they possibly met with foul play?

Do they typically abandon their vehicle?

TIA!

 

[epiphany]

...Regarding press interviews? Yes..we are going to be making contacts with a number of media outlets for GR to do an interview publicly IF he is given the ok by law enforcement. If they advise him to not do interviews...we will not organize. Should have that known sometime on Monday.

I understand why someone who has a missing loved one would seek LE's advice concerning the issue of what information LE may not want the interviewee to divulge to the media and/or the public and what questions LE may advise the interviewee not to answer in order to protect the investigation now and/or in the future.

Safety of the missing loved one, in some cases, might also be a concern. Additionally, it might signal that investigators know the vicinity the missing might now be located in, and could result in the missing leaving said area.

My question is why in this case would a loved one need LE's permission ["OK"] to be interviewed by media?

Clearing with LE what information should not be divulged makes sense to me, but needing LE's OK to be interviewed by media is a stretch: for me, that is.

 

[PennyFlower]

I wish her parents and sister would put a plea out there on the missing FB page.

I'm still holding out hope that she's out there in the world and reading along with her case. She NEEDS to hear from her Mom & Dad and sister. I know her family is included in the posts from GR but its obvious its not from them.

I can't even begin to imagine the distress they are experiencing but why are they so quiet?

 

[OffRoadRunner]

I wish her parents and sister would put a plea out there on the missing FB page.

I'm still holding out hope that she's out there in the world and reading along with her case. She NEEDS to hear from her Mom & Dad and sister. I know her family is included in the posts from GR but its obvious its not from them.

I can't even begin to imagine the distress they are experiencing but why are they so quiet?

Their silence speaks volumes on what they think - and possibly why no public plea to Jennifer as to what they think happened. I feel so badly for them!